I don't think we should design the entire PvP system around someone shooting up sidewinders in starting systems. But I also don't think we should design the PvP system around "well if you don't want to PvP and don't want to get griefed, just never play in Open." That's a terrible design. It's supposed to be one persistent open world game. The fact that you can play it solo and in private groups to me is just a bandaid on a completely imperfect PvP system. Players shouldn't be completely cut off from the community provided in Open play just because Frontier hasn't bothered to put in some gameplay mechanics that would make griefing actually have some real consequences.
Combat Loggers... how many are there!!!! What kind of punishment do they receive and when?
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So you want to have your cake and eat it too? Also, if it's griefing then report it. Frontier has said that they don't want griefing to take place in this game, but also realize that their definition of griefing might not be the same as yours or even mine, which is why I quoted and linked a Frontier dev post several pages ago so that way we could stop using ambiguous phraseology. Because as someone earlier put it, the only definition that matters is Frontier's.
We'll have to agree to disagree there. Personally I don't think private/solo should even be connected to open play in terms of background environment, and I don't think they're a bandaid. Some things are just not for some people and you know what? That's fine. As the Arrowhead(Magicka, Helldivers, etc) devs put it a game for everyone is a game for no one, because you can't make everyone love your game.
To which I respond why not? And you'd probably be flabbergasted. Not everyone has to like everything. For example, I like Mexican food, but I hate avocado and guacamole, and that's fine. I don't need everyone else to stop eating or making avocados and guacamole because I dislike them.
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Here let me fix your food analogy for you. You like Mexican food but you hate avocado and guacamole. However, every time you go out to eat Mexican food in public so you can enjoy some company, some guy comes by and puts avocado and guacamole all over your food. There's no consequences at all for this guy's actions. I guess your only choice is to never eat Mexican food in public again.
It really didn't need fixing, but if you insist my stance is unchanged. Instead of not partaking in the avocado/guacamole, I would cease to partake in Mexican food. In spite of how ever comical that would make my life. I would also argue that the
The funny thing is, if everyone did as you suggest, then open play would be left with nothing but pirates who wouldn't have anyone to pirate.
Also, ED isn't "wild west in space" unless you're in an anarchy system. Being in a high security system with actual laws against piracy and murder should actually mean something. Like it does in EVE. A pirate shouldn't be able to murder anyone anywhere they want without so much as a thought to any consequence.
Now you're probably going to go back to saying that it should be up to the player base to provide that consequence, and not the gameplay mechanics. But again, the gameplay mechanics are already there, they're just woefully inadequate because the security response is laughable and so are the bounties. Making those stricter would just fix something that's inadequate while already keeping with the existing vision and story. And secondly, it's not possible for the player base to make up for this and provide the consequence themselves because the mechanics to do so aren't there. If they were, it would have already happened. Just look at the Fuel Rats. These people provide a much needed in game service, for free. If the same was possible for avenging pirating, it would exist. There's plenty of players that would sign up in a heartbeat to go hunt down reported pirates. The reason it hasn't happened is because there's no way to track down a reported pirate.
Also, ED isn't "wild west in space" unless you're in an anarchy system. Being in a high security system with actual laws against piracy and murder should actually mean something. Like it does in EVE. A pirate shouldn't be able to murder anyone anywhere they want without so much as a thought to any consequence.
Now you're probably going to go back to saying that it should be up to the player base to provide that consequence, and not the gameplay mechanics. But again, the gameplay mechanics are already there, they're just woefully inadequate because the security response is laughable and so are the bounties. Making those stricter would just fix something that's inadequate while already keeping with the existing vision and story. And secondly, it's not possible for the player base to make up for this and provide the consequence themselves because the mechanics to do so aren't there. If they were, it would have already happened. Just look at the Fuel Rats. These people provide a much needed in game service, for free. If the same was possible for avenging pirating, it would exist. There's plenty of players that would sign up in a heartbeat to go hunt down reported pirates. The reason it hasn't happened is because there's no way to track down a reported pirate.
Regards consequences, if you attack a player in a high-security system then there should be consequences. If you attack a player in an Anarchy system, there won't be any.
So, maybe you need go find your candy and work out where to operate so you don't get much heat?
Pirates should operate primarily in space with lesser security, if they commit a crime in a high-security system then they should need to move on because there are plenty of other options.
This would invite hit and run activities like the game currently gives but you can't make a home there. This also leads to not annoying your base system. Stay within the rules of that system and you'll be cool but if not, life becomes that bit more complicated where you may have to relocate.
Well, that is where you bought the wrong game then isn't it.
Right from the very start of Kickstarter it was advertised as everyone having full access to the BGS and all content.
For the full development and through Alpha and Beta the Devs constantly reminded folks (and when needed, defended the choice) that every player, regardless of mode, would get full access to the BGS.
Even XBox 1 uses and influences the same BGS as PC/Mac - and you cannot see those players or interact with them. PS4 will as well.
You cannot see CQC players from within the main game, yet their earnings and their rank give them rewards in the main game that you cannot stop.
(CQC station is a copy/paste of Founders and you need CQC rank to access it and they earn crdits for the main game in CQC - can play that to save up for an "A" spec Anaconda in the main game)
So your "opinion" does not really count for much when you go and buy something you clearly know you're going to hate (no offence).
As you like your food analogies let put it in one;
I hate sea food, the sight, smell, texture and taste - it all repulses me and makes me violently ill if I try to east it.
So I'll just nip in to a sea food only restaurant, sit at a table, get them menu - then moan and moan and moan about them serving sea food.
And regardless of liking sea food or not, those who skip out on their bill (combat loggers) should be caught, neutered and locked in a room with Donald Trump and Katie Hopkins for a year.
If there incessant ranting and rambling about nonsense does not drive the person to insanity, watching those two do the nasty (cuz a year is a long time, they have needs...) should push anyone over the edge.
If that does not teach them to be decent people, then send them off to whatever pole it has that has penguins - perhaps they'll fit in better there.
I'm starting to see a lot of points from earlier resurface that I've already addressed. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree and you can go reference my earlier posts if you're genuinely interested in the discussion.
I actually think that sounds really cool. I would toss you some rep, but it's apparently not a thing on the mobile version of the board(or I can't find it).
Not really, I just didn't feel strongly on that. My commitment to my opinion just isn't that binary.
I'll be honest, I just really don't care enough about that feature to have a firm stance. I started posting in a combat logging thread to talk about combat logging. Now if you want to talk about combat logging(that thing from like 3 pages ago) I'd be happy to entertain your 'arguements'.
If that does not teach them to be decent people, then send them off to whatever pole it has that has penguins - perhaps they'll fit in better there.
I think you're taking the game too seriously and personally. I realize that when Rooks and Kings blows me up in a pipebombing operation, when Yasuo kills me for the 3rd time in mid lane as Vel'koz, or when that Pyramidion rams my Squid, that it's just a game where people enjoy the competative interactions with other human opponents and testing there wills against each other. I might cuss up a storm while I'm down on the scoreboard, but at the end of the day I understand that the other person on the otherside of the screen doesn't want to ruin my life. He just wants to achieve victory just like I do, and, again, if you don't like that then there's private and solo play. All I ask is that combat logging be fixed(a confirmed exploit by Frontier(see page 20(I think))) and I'll comeback and enjoy the game(after they fix this launcher bug).
Anyways, I'll reformat this post once I'm back home.
The only thing I managed to gather from any of your earlier posts is that you basically think pirating is perfectly fine as it is, it doesn't need to have any more consequences, and nothing anyone suggests will fix it anyway so don't even try. Also anyone that disagrees with you can just go play in private. Does that about sum it up or did I miss anything?
I got interdicted a year ago by a player and he combat logged on ME! It was fun to see his reaction when an Asp kicked his ridiculous no-skill clipper. Like all player-killer-pirates...whatever they call themselves, he was looking for an easy meal. I wouldn't blame newbies for combat logging when they are scraping together enough to upgrade a shield on a type 6 or something. I bet if 90 percent of the "pirates" on here (and by pirate I mean griefer-killer-whatever) were honest, they'd admit they ONLY go after a "sure thing"... as someone else stated in this post, it's baby seal hunting.
Now to be clear: I'm glad you griefer-killer-pirates are out there, since the game isn't called Elite-Sunshine-dance. I just wish you'd attack me now....but low and behold I NEVER get interdicted by you guys anymore. NEVER, not once in a very long time...lets see if I can remember....oh yeah, it was when I had a Type 9 and no weapons....not now though, while I fly an Anaconda or Cutter with weapons and shields. but, but...but I thought you wanted PvP so badly....
It was fun to see his reaction when an Asp kicked his ridiculous no-skill clipper. Like all player-killer-pirates...whatever they call themselves, he was looking for an easy meal. I wouldn't blame newbies for combat logging when they are scraping together enough to upgrade a shield on a type 6 or something. I bet if 90 percent of the "pirates" on here (and by pirate I mean griefer-killer-whatever) were honest, they'd admit they ONLY go after a "sure thing"... as someone else stated in this post, it's baby seal hunting. Now to be clear: I'm glad you griefer-killer-pirates are out there, since the game isn't called Elite-Sunshine-dance. I just wish you'd attack me now....but low and behold I NEVER get interdicted by you guys anymore. NEVER, not once in a very long time...lets see if I can remember....oh yeah, it was when I had a Type 9 and no weapons....not now though, while I fly an Anaconda or Cutter with weapons and shields. but, but...but I thought you wanted PvP so badly....
Mostly, I would word it more simply.
I don't think there's really anything to fix other than combat logging.
Edit: I've entertained some of your points, but at no point was I convinced to move from my current position that there's nothing to fix(other than the obvious). Sorry if that seemed misleading.
I got interdicted a year ago by a player and he combat logged on ME!
Now to be clear: I'm glad you griefer-killer-pirates are out there, since the game isn't called Elite-Sunshine-dance. I just wish you'd attack me now....but low and behold I NEVER get interdicted by you guys anymore. NEVER, not once in a very long time...lets see if I can remember....oh yeah, it was when I had a Type 9 and no weapons....not now though, while I fly an Anaconda or Cutter with weapons and shields. but, but...but I thought you wanted PvP so badly....
That's pretty funny, and I can tell you in complete unremorseful honesty that I don't pick fights with something I don't think I can win against. Because like everyone one in this thread I'd rather win than lose, but, like that eagle I mentioned earlier in the thread, sometimes you get a good fight that makes even a loss worth it. Honestly, if I had some wingmates I'd love to try and wolf pack an anaconda. Don't know too much about the cutter other than it's bigger and apparently badder than an anaconda.
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big ships make big targets
haha... big ships DO make big targets.... I wouldn't mind being a target now that I have a billion credits..... when I was the one scrounging around in a Cobra trying to dodge interdictions because I only had about 100,000 credits in the bank, it was a different story.
Ok, well you'll have to excuse me for not taking your opinion on the matter seriously considering you're a self admitted pirate that doesn't like to pick fair fights. You obviously like the fact that there are no consequences for pirating and would probably be too scared to continue doing so if there were any real consequences, just like you're too scared now to pick fair fights.
I never really felt you did, but ok. Personally I don't think a viper vs eagle fight is that unfair, but I don't really care either way. Anyways, go ahead and demonize me if it makes you feel better. I'm not posting here to convince you. Our discussion was a nice platform to get my ideas out in a visible space for some hopefully cooler heads to take what they will from them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFkAAvDkj9k
Edit: I honestly had a hard time choosing which Palpatine clip I wanted to use.
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firstly I have not read the entire thread but have skimmed through some of it and read other parts of it...
I would like to ask the PVP centric community to clarify something for me...
Q1. Do you consider logging of via the in game menu 'combat logging' and if so why?
Q2. Beyond a rediculous suggestion of either removing the logoff option during combat or extending it to times above 30 seconds what would you propose FDev do to disincentivise logging out though the in game menu during combat?
Q3. What would you suggest FDev do to reduce the number of 'griefer / noob killer' types of players?
Q4. A lot of PVP players seem to state that OPEN is PVP and that people seeking PVE should go to private group or solo mode, why is there a problem with PVP players going to a a private group?
Q5. Do PvP players want interactions with other PvP players or do they want to be able to PvP anyone they choose weather or not the 'target' is even combat capable?
I would like to ask the PVP centric community to clarify something for me...
Q1. Do you consider logging of via the in game menu 'combat logging' and if so why?
Q2. Beyond a rediculous suggestion of either removing the logoff option during combat or extending it to times above 30 seconds what would you propose FDev do to disincentivise logging out though the in game menu during combat?
Q3. What would you suggest FDev do to reduce the number of 'griefer / noob killer' types of players?
Q4. A lot of PVP players seem to state that OPEN is PVP and that people seeking PVE should go to private group or solo mode, why is there a problem with PVP players going to a a private group?
Q5. Do PvP players want interactions with other PvP players or do they want to be able to PvP anyone they choose weather or not the 'target' is even combat capable?
Lol, great video man. But I really don't hate you. Seriously. I don't even hate how you play the game. It would be a perfectly legit way to play in my book if there were appropriate consequences for it. And I'm here for the same reason, to get my ideas out. However I don't think any cooler heads are going to see your ideas as anything more than self serving, as opposed to what's good for the game and community as a whole.
Personally I do, but the definition that matters is Frontier's which I believe was stated as something along the lines of(paraphrasing), 'If you perform a hard disconnect by unplugging your connection or killing the process to escape the consequences of combat.' I just don't think you should be able to abandon the rules of the game that everyone else plays by.
I don't think 30 seconds is ridiculous, but Frontier has been quoted saying that they can't for what ever reason(personally I think it's more likely won't) impose that. If you can't do that then if you log in the middle of combat you should simply be penalized for what you would have lost anyways. IE, the insurance cost of the ship, cargo, and profits made from that run of cargo. Edit: That is if the profits have been made.
I'm really not convinced that's a problem I think the few and far between people who run to the forums regularly are not representative of the playerbase(for example I'm not representative of the playerbase), and are simply louder than the people who just don't care. I also think that said scenarios are usually misrepresented because someone's feelings are hurt. Just because your feelings are hurt doesn't entitle you to anything. I'm pretty sure Hitler's feelings were hurt when he start losing the Russian front.
That's a far more complicated question than you probably realize. The answer is that for the same reason I don't que up against my buddies in World of Tanks, but rather with them against other people. Playing against the same people over and over is boring. The experience is best when you can't predict it. Edit: Something I forgot to add was that if PVP wasn't intended or wanted in open play by Frontier then it wouldn't be allowed to persist. The fact that it's in and remains in means that PVP is desirable gameplay to Frontier.
I'll answer this question fairly indirectly, why should someone unarmed get a free pass in a PVP environment? Being unprepared is their problem, not mine. I don't que up in Fractured Space and say after the game that loss didn't count because I wasn't ready or I made a mistake. I learn from my mistakes and plan accordingly. A skill that seems to be in desperate short supply on the ED forums.
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One doesn't. One has the following options:
- Avoid any risk whatsoever of it ever happening by playing in solo
- Explode
- Cheat
I agree with you completely that players who go after inexperienced players in full-spec combat ships, or gank noobs in wings, are complete and utter <cheats>. It doesn't change that fact that if a player combat logs to avoid a death in those scenarios he is a cheat.
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But the rules of the game we all play by allow for exiting the game through the in game menu and is not considered by frontier as being an exploit so why do you 'feel' it is combat logging still? As you said it's FDev's definition that matters.
I do not think 30 seconds is rediculous at all either, as I meant times above (over) 30 seconds would be getting rediculous IMHO. But how would you penalise the player without them being 'clearly' destroyed if in that logout time it could have been possible for them to escape using high wake etc. I do think if the timer was increased to 30 seconds then high waking would become more of a tactic used due to being about the same time as the logout timer would need while still having some control over your ship to try and evade fire etc. Beyond 30 seconds it would be rediculous because that would also affect normal logouts etc. And the fact people will always need to be able to log out at any time due to reasons beyond just finishing their gaming sessions (your kid has hurt themselves, your spouse needs you then and there, and many other obvious real life reasons)
As an open only player myself, I agree that I have personally not really experienced this problem myself, but I am in no way near the starting systems either when I am in the bubble I have my chosen minor faction home systems which is where I usually operate from. That said from people I have talked with, this is a problem for starter systems and occurs from time to time... So what can be done to reduce the occurances of this happening?
It's not that complicated on the surface of the question, I do realise it is more complicated due to the way the game modes are implemented at this time. But fighting with your friends against other people, that is what wings are for yes? So the question still remains as to what is wrong with PVP players having a group where they play with their friends against other PVP players / wings / groups? I have not suggested PvP is in desirable for the developers, in fact it is 'emergent' gameplay that is what DB himself has said he looks forward to seeing in the game. I was in no way suggesting PvP is not something intended for open or for the game, my question is a result of all the time the 'PvP Crowd' are telling people who might not always want PvP to go to solo or group
I agree, not having some weapons is a definite risk and anyone playing without weapons are indeed vulnerable to PC and NPC attacks, however that was not the question, the question was regarding combat capabilities... Would you (for example) interdict an unarmed target, take them down, then pat yourself on the back for a job well done?
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