Combat Loggers... how many are there!!!! What kind of punishment do they receive and when?

[Moardak]

In your opinion. It's not that I miss the point I just think you're wrong, something I've already stated. Since we've had this conversation already, I'll spare you and everyone else from reiterating it.

Something I agree with, but this isn't the bounty hunting thread it's the combat logging thread.

I mostly agree, but, again, not the thread to discuss this.

Ok.. so you think I'm wrong, then you immediately go on to state that I'm right about the bounty system being inadequate, and that I'm right about high security systems. So what am I wrong about...?

Furthermore I never said two wrongs make a right. I don't condone combat logging. I just think it's unfair and hypocritical that pirates cry and cry about their victims combat logging and "not facing the consequences", all the while the pirates themselves never face any real consequences, and some of them, (like you for instance) think that's just fine and dandy and would like to see it stay consequence free.

 

[Moardak]

I generally agree with this but I would also like there to be options, for say a minor faction, to boost their security by having to do things, like missions and mini cg's that would involve cleaning the system of undesirables and such.
Because your minor faction resides in a system, means you should have to work for the best results, depending on how you want your system to run.
I don't know why there are not interdicting Police forces in high-security systems to make sure there are no illegal activities. Sure, it may annoy legit players a little but which do you want....a mild inconvenience or to be attacked constantly because of no consequences for the attacker?
This can work in systems without a minor player faction as well.

There are already ways in the BGS to destabilize a system but I don't know if any directly affect the security level but let's just suggest the actions of a potential pirate:

If you successfully smuggled goods into a system as a mean to destabilize it then that would affect the system security. The more smuggled, the lower the security because they would be distracted by crazed Onionhead party people, others running around with guns, narcotics affecting the workforce and productivity of the system or whatever...
On the flip side, positive legit missions restore the balance.

If unchallenged, and once that drops, then the Pirate, or group of pirates have their chance. This would make the game constantly change and for traders to have to constantly check if the system they are delivering to is safe, or not.
In this way, it comes down to the actions of the players and how much attention they are paying to the game as to how hard or easy it is or becomes.
Sometimes you may even have to fight for what you want if it's that valuable to a player, as in a nice trade run or something else.

I would love to see the system security be tied more into the background simulation and other game mechanics. But first the system security actually needs to be made viable. Right now it's nothing more of a nuisance joke.

Btw, system security does interdict pilots to perform scans. The problem is it's super easy to just run away from them or even just turn around and blow them up. They're just normal NPCs and just as easy to kill as anything else. Often they're alone and in small ships. Doing more random interdictions would be annoying for everybody and wouldn't fix the problem anyway. Player killers need a heightened and targeted security response that actively pursues them even out of the system they originally killed in, and the response force needs to be formidable and appropriately based on the killer's skill and ship.

 

[Jackboot]

Every single one of you piracy sympathizers completely misses the point each time you compare open play to real life or whatever else. The point is piracy and other sorts of crime driven behavior is illegal in real life and in ED. The problem is there's almost nothing of consequence currently in ED to punish these crimes. The current bounty system is woefully inadequate. Being in a high security system should actually mean something. It shouldn't mean anyone in a bigger ship or bigger wing can murder you at will and get away with it without a single consequence. Yes, piracy and other crimes should be allowed in the game. But they should have real consequences, just like actual crimes do. Any of you that like to engage in criminal behavior in ED and cry about your victims not being willing to "accept the consequences", yet turn a complete blind eye to the fact that your crimes have no real consequences are just being hypocritical chickens.

Have you ever tried to earn a living as a pirate? I can almost guarantee you have not. Honestly you should before you rally for more "consequences" for piracy.

First you have to outfit a combat ship for piracy. This makes it much less effective as a combat ship, as you have to replace modules with things like interdiction and cargo scanners and a cargo bay. Then you have to spend a crazy amount of time hoping to find one of the other 30 or so players in your instance in the galaxy to pirate, preferably a trader that has for whatever reason decided to play in open. Then you have to successfully interdict them with a buggy interdiction minigame, and hope they don't log. Then you have to tell them they are being pirated and hope they don't log. Then you have to scan their cargo hold and hope they don't log. Then assuming they "agree" to being pirated and don't log, you get 10 tones or so worth of cargo you can sell for 10K or so each...
It is downright foolish if you want to make any decent amount of money using piracy today in Elite. Adding more consequences will only make it a less desirable activity to do, and will further reduce the amount of people willing to do it...piracy does not need a nerf, it needs a huge huge buff to even be worth doing at all.

 

[sewerratuk]

Just to drag this back on topic.
I am currently at Ch'i Lin in my FAS, left the CZ with 33% hull, 50% canopy, got interdicted by a CMDR in a cobra, submitted and as soon as I turned to face him he vanished... Poof...

Go figure, I guess he had a bad internet connection

 

[Moardak]

Have you ever tried to earn a living as a pirate? I can almost guarantee you have not. Honestly you should before you rally for more "consequences" for piracy.

First you have to outfit a combat ship for piracy. This makes it much less effective as a combat ship, as you have to replace modules with things like interdiction and cargo scanners and a cargo bay. Then you have to spend a crazy amount of time hoping to find one of the other 30 or so players in your instance in the galaxy to pirate, preferably a trader that has for whatever reason decided to play in open. Then you have to successfully interdict them with a buggy interdiction minigame, and hope they don't log. Then you have to tell them they are being pirated and hope they don't log. Then you have to scan their cargo hold and hope they don't log. Then assuming they "agree" to being pirated and don't log, you get 10 tones or so worth of cargo you can sell for 10K or so each...
It is downright foolish if you want to make any decent amount of money using piracy today in Elite. Adding more consequences will only make it a less desirable activity to do, and will further reduce the amount of people willing to do it...piracy does not need a nerf, it needs a huge huge buff to even be worth doing at all.

I am well aware that piracy is not a good way to make money. People do piracy because it's what they like to do, not to earn money. If piracy was a good way to make money, then almost everyone that likes to PvP, and most certainly everyone that likes to grief other players would be instantly drawn to it. And this group of people is not small. What this game doesn't need is way too many pirates. In a perfect system, piracy would be a high risk, high reward occupation, because that's what crime is. Right now it's extremely low risk, low reward. I would be perfectly fine with some way to increase the reward, but the risk needs to be increased desperately. Higher risk would also make piracy more fun for people that actually enjoy a challenge. If you're a pirate that doesn't enjoy a challenge and just enjoys blowing up defenseless trader ships with little thought to any consequences for it (because there currently isn't any), then you're just a coward.

 

[Abomination]

I wish this discussion would seperate the issue with psycho's from that of real pirates.
I really hope traders (like me) don't have any issues with pirates. If they keep in role, it's exciting.
If the offender SAYS he wants your cargo, make a decision. Give in and drop the requested cargo, or fight and maybe die.
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The psycho's are the real reason, imo, why combat logging occurs.
If you want to kill other players, at least have the decency to go to a combat zone or a RES.
In normal space there should be high consequences for killing another player unless he's wanted or in an anarchy system.
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Excluded from all this is PP in my opinion.
Aligning with a power means you're a target for all other powers, simple as that.
It's a choice you can make so you know you'll be getting it.
-
It would be nice if you all could at least live by some rules of engagement.

 

[Noddie]

Well. The only way to deal with it would be to make the ship exist for 30 seconds after the connection drops. Or to prevent players who don't log out "clean" from playing in open for - say - 24 hours.

However... PTP model? Blocking?

Nah.

Play in mobius or solo.

 

[Kaerakh]

-snip-

With all of your goal post shifting I'd be surprised if you remember what your position even was originally.

Seeing as how you have consistently misrepresented my position over 5+ pages, continually move the finish line(goal post shifting), ad hominem, have continuously tried to draw me into off topic discussion, and practice in circular logic, I really can't have a conversation with you as this brazen flaunting of intellectual dishonesty undermines any productive conversation we could have and has soured the tone of the thread. This has become a shouting match and I want no part of that.

Now I listed these so that you might research why I am ceasing my discussion with you, but in all likelihood you will angrily disregard it and proclaim yourself right. Conversation isn't about who is right it is about what is right and the distinction isn't semantics, but in actuality something of grave importance in honest discussion. I hope you find this helpful.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Just to drag this back on topic.
I am currently at Ch'i Lin in my FAS, left the CZ with 33% hull, 50% canopy, got interdicted by a CMDR in a cobra, submitted and as soon as I turned to face him he vanished... Poof...

Go figure, I guess he had a bad internet connection

Surprisingly common issue isn't it? It's almost as if it's an excuse, and if so why is it our or Frontier's responsibility even after the inclusion of private and solo modes?

 

[Moardak]

With all of your goal post shifting I'd be surprised if you remember what your position even was originally.

Seeing as how you have consistently misrepresented my position over 5+ pages, continually move the finish line(goal post shifting), ad hominem, have continuously tried to draw me into off topic discussion, and practice in circular logic, I really can't have a conversation with you as this brazen flaunting of intellectual dishonesty undermines any productive conversation we could have and has soured the tone of the thread. This has become a shouting match and I want no part of that.

Now I listed these so that you might research why I am ceasing my discussion with you, but in all likelihood you will angrily disregard it and proclaim yourself right. Conversation isn't about who is right it is about what is right and the distinction isn't semantics, but in actuality something of grave importance in honest discussion. I hope you find this helpful.

Ok first off, I didn't drag you into anything. You chose to respond. My first post today wasn't even directed at you, yet you still chose to respond. Second, in my opinion it's not off topic. The two topics are intimately related. Third, my goal posts have not moved. But you're welcome to try and show that they have. You're also welcome to try and show how I've used circular logic, which I haven't. I also haven't misrepresented your position. You have clearly stated that you are a pirate that only picks fights that you can win, and that you don't think piracy needs more consequences. And lastly, you've constantly resorted to attacking my arguments by going all meta on them and complaining about the style and tone and whatever else you can come up with, instead of actually addressing the substance of the arguments and the ideas contained in it. If that's how you choose to argue, I agree, lets stop, because it's pointless and is actually off topic.

 

[tawittle]

There is a lot of confusion about combat logging.

I think over 50% of "combat loggers" are really just people experiencing instancing issues. Since most people don't pvp, they can't tell the different between instancing issues/legitimate dc and an actual combat log.

FD is pretty lenient with their playerbase, probably because their hacking/exploit detection is not very good and they don't want to accidently ban people.

 

[Geezer32]

Question to the OP and others crying about combat logging: - Why were you shooting these CMDR's in the 1st place? role playing as a pirate or just getting jollies hearing the defenceless traders go 'pop'

Every online game is full of griefers and gank squads and ED players that want to play peacefully shouldn't be forced into solo mode because of the 14 year olds with sociability problems that get their little woodies annoying other players.

It's hilariously hypocritical that the same people crying outrage shaking their pitchforks demanding bans for the CL'ers yet are more than happy that the game allows them to go around being a murderous prat with zero consequence whatsoever.

Here's another thought, why don't you rack off and go play CQC with the other kids that want some pew pew instead of saying that peaceful players have no business in open.

Better yet, FD, lets have another game mode in the sandpit called "PvP" where these guys can go kick sand in each others faces all day.

 

[sewerratuk]

Here's another thought, why don't you rack off and go play CQC with the other kids that want some pew pew instead of saying that peaceful players have no business in open.

Better yet, get FD to replace all weapons with rainbow paint ball guns and flower petal cannons.

 

[crushdepth]

Question to the OP and others crying about combat logging: - Why were you shooting these CMDR's in the 1st place? role playing as a pirate or just getting jollies hearing the defenceless traders go 'pop'

Every online game is full of griefers and gank squads and ED players that want to play peacefully shouldn't be forced into solo mode because of the 14 year olds with sociability problems that get their little woodies annoying other players.

It's hilariously hypocritical that the same people crying outrage shaking their pitchforks demanding bans for the CL'ers yet are more than happy that the game allows them to go around being a murderous prat with zero consequence whatsoever.

Here's another thought, why don't you rack off and go play CQC with the other kids that want some pew pew instead of saying that peaceful players have no business in open.

Better yet, FD, lets have another game mode in the sandpit called "PvP" where these guys can go kick sand in each others faces all day.

Thank you.

 

[{SAS}Stalker]

Question to the OP and others crying about combat logging: - Why were you shooting these CMDR's in the 1st place? role playing as a pirate or just getting jollies hearing the defenceless traders go 'pop'

Every online game is full of griefers and gank squads and ED players that want to play peacefully shouldn't be forced into solo mode because of the 14 year olds with sociability problems that get their little woodies annoying other players.

It's hilariously hypocritical that the same people crying outrage shaking their pitchforks demanding bans for the CL'ers yet are more than happy that the game allows them to go around being a murderous prat with zero consequence whatsoever.

Here's another thought, why don't you rack off and go play CQC with the other kids that want some pew pew instead of saying that peaceful players have no business in open.

Better yet, FD, lets have another game mode in the sandpit called "PvP" where these guys can go kick sand in each others faces all day.

That's because one is cheating and the other whilst displaying undesirable behaviour, isn't. There is a world of difference between the two;

Cheating and not cheating


say it aloud 100 times.....sing it.

 

[Roland2]

That's because one is cheating and the other whilst displaying undesirable behaviour, isn't. There is a world of difference between the two;

Cheating and not cheating


say it aloud 100 times.....sing it.

Except it's not cheating, it's an exploit. There is a difference. Just like changing modes to reset the bulletin board is an exploit, not cheating. If everyone who took advantage on an exploit was banned, there would be a lot of unhappy players not playing.

 

[Kaerakh]

Question to the OP and others crying about combat logging: - Why were you shooting these CMDR's in the 1st place? role playing as a pirate or just getting jollies hearing the defenceless traders go 'pop'

I can tell that we're off to a great start with the well being poisoned like this, assuming the question isn't rhetorical it's the same reason I like competitive gameplay in League of Legends, EVE, Freelancer, Guns of Icarus, Smite, Fractured Space, and so on. Remarkably, a lot of people like this kind of gameplay I know for a fact about 60,000+ of them work together in groups of up to 30,000+ in EVE. We're a very sociable group of players.

Every online game is full of griefers and gank squads and ED players that want to play peacefully shouldn't be forced into solo mode because of the 14 year olds with sociability problems that get their little woodies annoying other players.

Oh, there it is, I thought I smelled that strawman coming. If only he was real. Better question, why should I change my style of play when Frontier says it's fine and the vast majority of the online gaming sphere agrees?

It's hilariously hypocritical that the same people crying outrage shaking their pitchforks demanding bans for the CL'ers yet are more than happy that the game allows them to go around being a murderous prat with zero consequence whatsoever.

I really get from this that you all are projecting, because the only people who want zero consequence for their stupidity are people with stances like yours.

Here's another thought, why don't you rack off and go play CQC with the other kids that want some pew pew instead of saying that peaceful players have no business in open.

Because preorganized matchmaking in the same terrain and scenario is boring? Duh.

Better yet, FD, lets have another game mode in the sandpit called "PvP" where these guys can go kick sand in each others faces all day.

We already do, it's called open play.

Better yet, get FD to replace all weapons with rainbow paint ball guns and flower petal cannons.

I love you man. Remind me to give you rep when I get back home this weekend.

 

[{SAS}Stalker]

Except it's not cheating, it's an exploit. There is a difference. Just like changing modes to reset the bulletin board is an exploit, not cheating. If everyone who took advantage on an exploit was banned, there would be a lot of unhappy players not playing.

Except Frontier Development say it is, if you disagree then fine but dont spread your opinion around as fact because it will get people in to trouble, especially new players who may not know any different.

Hey guys,

Just jumping on very quickly.

Just to confirm that combat logging is considered against the rules and action does and has been taken against commanders who deliberately have done so. Our support department take great pride in making sure the game is a safe and fun environment.

They review all reports of cheating and take action as they deem fit.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=143287&p=2201167&viewfull=1#post2201167

This entire thread is like knitting fog.

 

[Geezer32]

in EVE. We're a very sociable group of players.

This isn't EVE and not my experience in ED. In open if I see another CMDR most times they will attack without provocation or communication.

Oh, there it is, I thought I smelled that strawman coming.

I don't think you understand what that means because that's exactly what the OP was proposing.

Because preorganized matchmaking in the same terrain and scenario is boring? Duh.

But killing defenceless traders and unwilling PvP participants in empty space is fun though right. Thanks for supporting my point.

 

[SnowyNI]

Did we find any answers yet?
Do they get shadowed?
Is they're only available login in shadow or have they just no open?
Surely if they do get shadowed for logging isn't it full of loggers and ergo... safer than even group is? Sounds like a nice place!
Can FD do it to players with the UK law thingy? Lawsuits left and right, call the TV lawyers asap?

 

[excalibus]

I definitely think a way of communicating to the agressor when a player is logging out via the in game menu and not just dropping connection / end tasking would go some way towards reducing the workload of frontier staff checking CL reports. It won't stop those players logging out the correct way but will help at least reduce the number of 'false positive' reports being made

Perhaps increasing the logout timer to 30 seconds would further add incentives to players to not log out via the game menu and instead try to escape manually...