Combat logging no longer an exploit? * trigger warning *

Riverside

Riverside
Maggie_Oz said:
What if you're not at their table though and they drag you over by force to play at their table and you have 2 cards and they have 7 ?
Am I to just sit there and let them have their fun while my game goes back to where I started 2 hours ago ?
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I think we differ in the definition of 'table'. If you are in the same instance you are at the same table. Others are not automatically obliged to be nice to you, it is your responsibility to make sure you are safe, and if someone outsmarts you by turning your contest into one which favours them, you should accept the loss.

The last time I was popped by another player was in a CZ, that last bastion of legitimate, meaningful PvP. They were justified in shooting at me, they did not need to explain their actions, and they were ultimately a considerably better pilot than I was. It didn't occur to be to combat log, it did occur to me to try to win the CZ scenario any way I could (I also failed at this but I evaded the player for some time).

Once I finally saw the rebuy screen & popped back up in the local dock I sent a friend request & sent them a "gg" (Good Game). Think of it as like an o7 Cmdr, it's just a way to be polite & give congratulations, just as you would if someone beat you at cards or chess. There is such a thing as a bad winner of course, up to you how you respond to that.

But that player that popped me was just there for fun, and deliberately chose the opposing side just to have some PvP action, because they were bored. I understand, I placate, I explain why I'm fighting this particular war & they agree to help me win the war. And I did ;)
 

Maggie_Oz

Maggie_Oz
Riverside said:
I think we differ in the definition of 'table'. If you are in the same instance you are at the same table.
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Which is why it is a bad analogy.
In ED you can go and shoot stuff as much as you want while I can be somewhere else doing something entirely different, I'm not even IN the casino much less playing cards

you should accept the loss.
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NO I SHOULD NOT , this is the core problem, we legitimise appalling behaviour.
There's no "outsmarting" having a super combat ship and picking out non-combatant ones.
 
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Riverside

Riverside
Maggie_Oz said:
Which is why it is a bad analogy.
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It is your analogy :)

If you want to play with others, you can play with friends that you trust, and in ED, only them if you (and they) choose.

If you want to play with strangers, to meet them & have interesting interactions, well you can do that too. But nobody likes playing with a cheater.

Let's try a different example. You want to go to Founders to buy a module, because you are in a hurry & can't find one but you know founders will sell it. Before you jump into Shinrata, consider why you are going there, and how you will react to someone attacking you & blowing up your ship:

If you're okay with taking the risk, go in Open & it will probably be fine, but you might not make it to dock. You'll have fun, you can practice your blockade running, evasive tactics, you might learn from your mistakes or an opponents novel or skilled tactics to trap you.

If you don't want the hassle & just want to buy the module & get on with your game, switch to solo & switch back to Open when you are docked, or when you are out of the hotspot system. Nobody will be annoyed with you because nobody even noticed you were there. And if you were not BGSing, nobody cares either. If you were BGSing people might care, but the game allows that so sucks to be them, you win within the rules of the game.
 

Highhead

H
It is so simple....

Noone has any right at all to tell me which services and files I run on my PC as long as I do not alter their sourcecode oder inject any bad code or network traffic.

If I choose to taskkill an .exe or pull the network cable or enable a firewall etc. I am allowed to do so. They also cannot do anything legally about it like banning me from the game simply for maintaining my own services running in my private environment, since it is my basic right to exit any .exe whenever I want to do so in the first place. The EULA which I have agreed upon, does not state anything written about clogging and has not changed and forum posts by Frontier do not matter at all, they are not legally valid like the EULA is.

What they can do about is, is to simply make me explode on connection loss or if the game is exited - they haven't done anything in these regards, so....
 

Riverside

Riverside
Maggie_Oz said:
Read up the thread, it's not


No one likes playing with a jerk either but we're supposed to be OK with that.
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Well it's not my analogy ;)

You don't have to like playing with jerks. But there is fun to be had in outsmarting them, and if you send them a friend request you'll always know where they are so you can choose to go to them or avoid them in future. And maybe you can help them with something you are good at that they are not (or find boring but necessary like earning cash for rebuys) and then one day, maybe they will help you ;)
 

Ezren

Ezren
Riverside said:
Perhaps the warning was aimed at you?
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Perhaps the warning should have been "this thread has been done to death". It's another thread about not understanding how a EULA works, thinking that everything needs to be individually specified and not just categorized.

The EULA calls out exploits. If the devs consider it an exploit, it's covered by the EULA. This thread is like looking at a "No Dogs Allowed" sign and thinking that your Golden Retriever is okay because the sign doesn't specifically say "No Golden Retrievers".
 

Riverside

Riverside
Ezren said:
Perhaps the warning should have been "this thread has been done to death". It's another thread about not understanding how a EULA works, thinking that everything needs to be individually specified and not just categorized.

The EULA calls out exploits. If the devs consider it an exploit, it's covered by the EULA. This thread is like looking at a "No Dogs Allowed" sign and thinking that your Golden Retriever is okay because the sign doesn't specifically say "No Golden Retrievers".
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You are bumping a thread you want to die then. Good luck with your quest.
 

Krash

Krash
Many PvPers make no distinction between menu logging (15 sec timer) and ungraceful exit (pulling the cable). Here's my take on it:
Menu log: within the rules, not cheating but violates Wheaton's Law
Pulling the plug: breaks the rules, cheating and violates Wheaton's Law

The term Combat Log or Clog can refer to either of those actions. Personally, I take it as a compliment if a player CLogs vs me. I'm that good you can't escape any other way? :ROFLMAO:
 

Northpin

Northpin
Ezren said:
Perhaps the warning should have been "this thread has been done to death". It's another thread about not understanding how a EULA works, thinking that everything needs to be individually specified and not just categorized.

The EULA calls out exploits. If the devs consider it an exploit, it's covered by the EULA. This thread is like looking at a "No Dogs Allowed" sign and thinking that your Golden Retriever is okay because the sign doesn't specifically say "No Golden Retrievers".
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Putting ED aside:

Leaving the game by any means cannot be called an exploit. Under no circumstances.

for example: Closing the lid of my laptop cannot be seen as an exploit, no matter who says what. It doesn't even happen in the game.
The game creator should include the necessary code to deal with this situation at server level not at client level. (keeping the client logged for a period and implementing a login cool off - to prevent fast relog exploits)

In the end it's a matter of context. Hence the case by case analysis.
If someone close the game and finished his game session for the day - that cannot be called exploiting no matter the circumstances.
But if someone task kill, then relogs, then again task kill and so on - this could be interpreted as exploiting - no matter if it happens in combat or in a hge.

Pretty much like repeated interdiction of someone (interdict, wake, interdict, wake and so on until the victim mode switch or quits) can qualify as Harassment
 

Skip Rockbounder

Skip Rockbounder
Krash said:
Personally, I take it as a compliment if a player CLogs vs me. I'm that good you can't escape any other way? :ROFLMAO:
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Yeah, absolutely, though I've never had it happen to my, my Son explained it to me a while back, he'd been pounding this team in TF2 heading the match board by 50-60 kills (next down was about 12) and other players calling him "hacker" I asked why he didn't argue and he told me that he saw it as a compliment... "happens all the time" he said he'd even been banned from servers - he sees that as a compliment too
 

Northpin

Northpin
Stealthie said:
You can't "cease playing the game and turn it off" using the tools provided BY the game without going through a procedure that FDev considers acceptable.
The only way you can "cease playing the game and turn it off" without going though FDev's procedure is by doing stuff that FDev might consider to be a breach of S4.4.
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I play on XB and i can. The game has to be compliant with the console environment.

The tools provided by the console are long press on XBox button (turn off the console - by default it is more like a sleep mode than a shutdown) or short press on the XBox button (return to home). Going through the menu of the game is not mandatory - pretty much the same way it is not mandatory to buy another game to be able to register another account on the same console (free alts in ED on consoles)

So it is perfectly normal to press the home button of my controller and find myself at the home screen and start another game. For example Minecraft
I'm not forcefully closing ED. I get bored so i start another game - the console will kill the previous game to make room for the new game

Do you thing it FD would be entitled file a complain to MS: player with this gamertag cheated!
MS will ask: how did he cheated?
FD will have to answer: he started Minecraft and you guys forcefully closed our game.
🤷‍♂️
 
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