Combat logging no longer an exploit? * trigger warning *

Bigmaec

Bigmaec
Frillop Freyraum said:
Hope is free for all. Guarantees and promises are not. ;)
What I'm talking about is not combat logging though. That's something I actually can guarantee that you never will see from me (unless you are incredible unlucky and hit the 24 hour forced disconnect from my ISP while you're just about doing the killing blow at me).

What I was talking about though is the double standards of so many PvPers (I'm consciously not saying "all" or "a majority" as I don't know the numbers, but I'm confident enough to say "many") with their extended list of things that are "frowned upon". Like synthesised ammo, to just give you an example.
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Synthesised ammo is crap. Prove me wrong :p
 

Sir Ganksalot

Sir Ganksalot
One last thing. Back in my ganking days, it wasn't the guy Clogging in the defenseless Asp because he was getting ganked that really bothered me, it was the guys that did it in legit PvP combat that were and are the real problem and really should be punished/banned for doing it. I'm not saying that the guy in the defenseless asp should be allowed to do it but he's also not the one causing the biggest problems or the one that's actively and knowingly cheating the system.
 

Skip Rockbounder

Skip Rockbounder
Enderby said:
Combat logging’s alright

at worse, it’s a little frustrating
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I've never had to CL, but there again I very very rarely visit Open, my ship is never armed but has decent shields, on returns to the bubble the only cargo I'm carrying is coffins, if I ever get interdicted I submit and rabbit... the only defense I have is to run, though a small ship (I dunno what) did get in the way once and scratched my paint with his exploding... I got a payout on that too lol
What would I do if I got interdicted by a player... I don't know, I hope I'd be able to menu to the PG mode,
I find other players all too willing to spoil my enjoyment of the game and as they only paid for their game and not mine I owe them nothing.
 

Northpin

Northpin
Sir Ganksalot said:
A lot of Xbox players have been getting banned for Clogging recently because it was discovered that if you report the clogger for "leaving game early" Xbox will in fact ban them. So yes, turning your console off or going to home and exiting is against Xbox policy and they will ban you for it.

Edit: Xbox is also much swifter and less forgiving than Frontier
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as i said, if they CLog then log back in solo and taunt the opponent over the system wide chat - it may seen as justifiable.
After all it's just bad attitude, right up there to harassing level.

Anyway, is there any proof that this actually happened? Or it's just hearsay and wishful thinking?

I'm asking because the right to quit the game at any time and without any delays or timers seems to me that it should go along as absolutely basic rights.
Being called a cheater for leaving a game at any time seems preposterous to me.
Especially in a game where PVP is optional and is a very minor (and minority's) activity

FD should own this and either:
- remove the timer altogether
or
- move the timer server side (assuming they find a way to make this shift not exploitable by the instance owners)

With their murky attitude they're doing nothing but fuel hate and resent among various players
Seriously, I've played many many thousands of hours in different multiplayer/pvp games, but what happens in ED is astonishingly bad.
I mean a PVP game with absolutely no mean to deal with quit/disconnects in-game, at server level?
 

Sir Ganksalot

Sir Ganksalot
Frillop Freyraum said:
Hope is free for all. Guarantees and promises are not. ;)
What I'm talking about is not combat logging though. That's something I actually can guarantee that you never will see from me (unless you are incredible unlucky and hit the 24 hour forced disconnect from my ISP while you're just about doing the killing blow at me).

What I was talking about though is the double standards of so many PvPers (I'm consciously not saying "all" or "a majority" as I don't know the numbers, but I'm confident enough to say "many") with their extended list of things that are "frowned upon". Like synthesised ammo, to just give you an example.
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Ok, my apologies for misunderstanding you.

That list of things frowned upon is just to keep the legitimate fights as fair as possible and are only "rules" within the PvP community. I've been pvping for years and have never synthed prem ammo for a PvP match but I synth prems for my plasma slug rails on my pve Vette all the time. And if I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure I've heard of pvpers synthing prems for AX as well (I could be mistaken about that though).
 

Bigmaec

Bigmaec
Frillop Freyraum said:
It's not made for the "grind sake", it's made to give other player profile a tiny chance to compete. I'm pretty sure, the better PvPers wouldn't mind or bother anyway.
But as I said: I'd give a crap... :p




With that I can agree. That's lame indeed. And lame is combat logging in general as I consider it lame to fly shieldless trading ships in Open, I just wouldn't mind.
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It doesn't give anyone a chance. A trader doesn't stand a chance against a PvP ship suddenly, neither does an Explorer.
It's just a mean way of player retention, like upkeep.
It generally only useful in PvP. You don't need premium ammo synths in PvE.
It makes your life easier against thargoids, granted, and is propably needed against the higher tier interceptors.
But that's again just the same as with mining yields. You can either balance the game by reducing yields/prices or you can balance by raising the carrier price.
Same with ax combat. Against a cyclops you don't need premium ammo.
Now you can go and say, wow we add premium ammo for +30% dps and subsequently balance interceptors with 30% more hit points.
Too bad you need to grind some hours more for that, doesn't that looks good in steam charts though?
 

Bigmaec

Bigmaec
Sir Ganksalot said:
Ok, my apologies for misunderstanding you.

That list of things frowned upon is just to keep the legitimate fights as fair as possible and are only "rules" within the PvP community. I've been pvping for years and have never synthed prem ammo for a PvP match but I synth prems for my plasma slug rails on my pve Vette all the time. And if I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure I've heard of pvpers synthing prems for AX as well (I could be mistaken about that though).
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No offense to you personally, but synthing premium ammo for ammoless rails is the king of stupid decisions regarding balancing.
Also as close to an exploit as you can get...
 

Sir Ganksalot

Sir Ganksalot
Northpin said:
as i said, if they CLog then log back in solo and taunt the opponent over the system wide chat - it may seen as justifiable.
After all it's just bad attitude, right up there to harassing level.

Anyway, is there any proof that this actually happened? Or it's just hearsay and wishful thinking?

I'm asking because the right to quit the game at any time and without any delays or timers seems to me that it should go along as absolutely basic rights.
Being called a cheater for leaving a game at any time seems preposterous to me.
Especially in a game where PVP is optional and is a very minor (and minority's) activity

FD should own this and either:
- remove the timer altogether
or
- move the timer server side (assuming they find a way to make this shift not exploitable by the instance owners)

With their murky attitude they're doing nothing but fuel hate and resent among various players
Seriously, I've played many many thousands of hours in different multiplayer/pvp games, but what happens in ED is astonishingly bad.
I mean a PVP game with absolutely no mean to deal with quit/disconnects in-game, at server level?
Click to expand...
I'm not allowed to name names but yes there is proof on a Facebook group page dedicated to these kinds of things.
There was an entire squadron that popped up on Xbox a couple years ago the would just clog out of every fight they started to lose (which was all of them). One guy decided to try the Xbox report player feature instead and ended up getting doxed because the guy actually got a one week ban. Supposedly the banned player even went so far as to threaten his daughter somehow as well, which I'm pretty sure is true because that player is now banned for life.
After that, every player that encountered the clog squad started reporting them to Xbox instead and all of them weren't seen for a couple of weeks afterwards and within a couple months the players weren't seen again and their squadron was disbanded.
It was a huge poop show with the worst players and most garbage human beings I've ever seen in any video game I've ever played.

Most gankers are actually very friendly people in person despite what some may think but these guys were the kind of guys that actually give them a bad name and I am very happy that Xbox stepped in and took care of them. By the way, Frontier were no where to be found during all of this and couldn't be bothered to take any kind of action.
 

Morbad

Morbad
Sanderling said:
Still though...where do you draw the line? And why would you draw it there?
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Where it constitutes an advantage over what's practical to do manually with the sort of controls the game supports. Because that's where the EULA draws the line and because it's clear that players are supposed to be at the controls, not a third party.

Northpin said:
Being called a cheater for leaving a game at any time seems preposterous to me.
Especially in a game where PVP is optional and is a very minor (and minority's) activity
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It seems just as preposterous to me that one can agree to play an online-only, persistent world, peer-to-peer game and not grasp how dumping one's client specifically to influence that persistent setting wouldn't be prohibited and could be anything other than a cheat if done to give one an advantage.

It's just as much a cheat outside of PvP. Relegating it to a PvP problem totally misses the point of why it's a problem at all.

Northpin said:
I mean a PVP game with absolutely no mean to deal with quit/disconnects in-game, at server level?
Click to expand...

The servers that matter most are the clients themselves, which is why shutting one down uncleanly can even be an issue.
 

Mohrgan

Mohrgan
Sir Ganksalot said:
I'm not allowed to name names but yes there is proof on a Facebook group page dedicated to these kinds of things.
There was an entire squadron that popped up on Xbox a couple years ago the would just clog out of every fight they started to lose (which was all of them). One guy decided to try the Xbox report player feature instead and ended up getting doxed because the guy actually got a one week ban. Supposedly the banned player even went so far as to threaten his daughter somehow as well, which I'm pretty sure is true because that player is now banned for life.
After that, every player that encountered the clog squad started reporting them to Xbox instead and all of them weren't seen for a couple of weeks afterwards and within a couple months the players weren't seen again and their squadron was disbanded.
It was a huge poop show with the worst players and most garbage human beings I've ever seen in any video game I've ever played.

Most gankers are actually very friendly people in person despite what some may think but these guys were the kind of guys that actually give them a bad name and I am very happy that Xbox stepped in and took care of them. By the way, Frontier were no where to be found during all of this and couldn't be bothered to take any kind of action.
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Lol. Gankers good. Loggers bad.

Thank you for that bit of comedic text.
 

Sir Ganksalot

Sir Ganksalot
Bigmaec said:
No offense to you personally, but synthing premium ammo for ammoless rails is the king of stupid decisions regarding balancing.
Also as close to an exploit as you can get...
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Lol I know. But it gives you back the damage reduction from from plasma slug. It's absolutely an exploit and one that I'm surprised (but not really) hasn't been patched yet. But again, I only do it for pve so, the only ones getting exploited are NPC's 🤷‍♂️
 

Bigmaec

Bigmaec
Frillop Freyraum said:
With "different player profiles" I mean players who play under different conditions or have a different history or even more than one limiting factors altogether. Or using different equipments. I'm not even going to start with impaired players...

I'm playing FA Off only with a 20+ years old joystick (not really at modern standards for precision) and a gameboard (no analogue throttle, so basically digital thrusters with 2 buttons). Look at the whole combination (I'm old compared to most PvPers with almost 64 so you can imagine my reflexes) and I'm pretty sure something like synthesized ammo wouldn't mysteriously make me an ace pilot over night. But that was only an example, anyway. There are also certain heat engineered weapons that are frowned upon and once there even was a time where gimballed weapons where frowned upon. It's nonsense like that I would give arap, you know.
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But if that impaired person using premiums would run into a top ganker ace running premiums too, what would happen?
And would the result be identical to an equation without synthing? I'd say yes.
In a solo / single player game I'd propably be in favor of that too.
But the game doesn't even show your adversary running premiums, although it would technically be very feasible, showing the same premium symbol next to your targets weapons...
 

Just Paul

Just Paul
Sanderling said:
That definitely sounds like overt cheating tbh. If you're automating in-game things with 3rd party tools, you're definitely breaking the EULA. I guess whether that's bannable though is also down to FDev...especially with things like Voice Attack. Still though...where do you draw the line? And why would you draw it there?
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Simple PIP management macros are allowed by FDev, other stuff not so much. The beam macro for example is seen as cheating, same as some other more advanced macros. There are top-tear PvP players on PC who use no macros and/or keyboard. They fly with stick or even controller:eek:. Isn't there a method to do pip macros on XBox with some controller extra thingy?

Edit: From what I heard you always get a warning first if you do something not to outlandish, so after that you should have a good idea what is allowed and what not.
 
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