Combat logging no longer an exploit? * trigger warning *

[Sir Ganksalot]

Lol. Gankers good. Loggers bad.

Thank you for that bit of comedic text.

Also, I never even mentioned who was a ganker and who wasn't in all of that. For all you know it was an enforcer squadron getting doxed and the gankers that were clogging.

Do you need a towel to wipe all that egg off your face?

 

[[VR] DDM_Reaper20]

Said it before but I honestly think the "cure" would be worse than the "disease" in this case.

I mean, currently the best case scenario is that you're engaged in combat for a meaningful reason.
You're winning and your opponent CLs.
So, you don't get to see a pretty explosion, you don't get to scoop a few mediocre mat's and (potentially) you don't get to score PP points for your side.
Big whup.

In the absence of a major netcode re-write, it seems like the only viable solution for task-killing is to implement "ghost ships" which remain in the instance to be destroyed after a player task-kills.
Trouble is, IP manipulation tools allow players to remotely disconnect other players from the game server.
That means a malicious player could use such a tool to disconnect every other player in an instance and give them free-reign to destroy their "ghost ship" after disconnecting the player.

Welcome to a game where every player suffers constant "random" disconnections and subsequent rebuys every time they encounter other players.

The "cure" for CLing is likely to create an incentive for far more malicious behaviour.

THAT is a question I've had for some time. If you destroy another CMDR, does his/her ship drop mats? If so, would the quality of the mats depend on the level of equipment/engineering?

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

THAT is a question I've had for some time. If you destroy another CMDR, does his/her ship drop mats? If so, would the quality of the mats depend on the level of equipment/engineering?

No, you get literally nothing for destroying another CMDR unless they have a bounty or it's for PP. No mats though regardless.

 

[Bigmaec]

It would be the same of course. And in a way, the sheer existence of premium ammo and the fact they are legal makes its usage into the same ballpark as saying to someone "if you can't stay the heat then stay out of Open". The underlying thinking behind that was probably that the really good PvPers don't have to grind for premium ammo, they prefer to do combat instead of wasting their time with grinding.

It's not the PvPers who define the (often downright incompetent and stupid) rules (in OPEN! that is, in contrary to organized closed sessions between friends), it's FDev to blame for. As long as they don't care, we all have to live with the consequences of their decisions, like it or not.

And this is a typical example of arguing not in favor of the game but just to spite the PvPers.

 

[Ezren]

Also, I never even mentioned who was a ganker and who wasn't in all of that. For all you know it was an enforcer squadron getting doxed and the gankers that were clogging.

Do you need a towel to wipe all that egg off your face?

Except...

Most gankers are actually very friendly people in person despite what some may think but these guys were the kind of guys that actually give them a bad name

So:

Do you need a towel to wipe all that egg off your face?

 

[[VR] DDM_Reaper20]

I didn't say it was, just that it is a bad one.


There isn't. Again you are just legitimising appalling behaviour.

The very first time I was blasted, I was aghast. I was flying a badly equipped Asp Scout (last time I ever flew THAT particular ship ), my aggressor a tricked-out Imperial Clipper.

He pulled me over, but instead of giving me a speeding ticket, attacked. Now, I made several crucial mistakes, which led to my well-earned demise:

1. I tried to boost away from him, in a straight line. Predictably, the first volley took down my shields and reduced my hull to 50%.

The second volley took me out. He blasted right through my remains.

My first reaction was stunned disbelief. WHY had he attacked me? I had been minding my own business; my ship was in no way outfitted to survive an interdiction (My main ships are, these days); I was not even going to look for trouble, with the paltry weaponry designed to drive off NPC attackers.

My second reaction was anger. Why did he mess with me in the first place?

Finally, it dawned on me. It's the nature of the game. He was doing that because it gave him some excitement, some kick.

Now, I could have received a kick from that, as well -- by acting smarter. Had I turned around, chaffed, popped a heat sink, and boosted right at him, my chances of survival would have increased dramatically. I might even have popped off a few shots, just to surprise him.

Fact is, you don't have to win a fight, you just have not to lose it, and that is considerably easier. Of course, if you facing an entire wing, your number is up.

Still, my advice is: do not take it personally. It is extremely likely that the other guy is not trying to milk your anger, he is just trying to have fun.

Or, to put it as another CMDR did in this forum (making me laugh so hard coffee was coming out of my nose), "Teaching a seminar for aspiring CMDRs not to fly without a rebuy."

 

[Northpin]

You repeatedly state this but don't really justify it. Plenty of games issue penalties for leaving early, so much so that it's categorically a reason to report players on a regular basis.

Ofc they do issue penalties. As they should. Basically all of them have some sort of in-game penalties except ED
I have 6000 hours in Dota2 and each time one was abandoning a game he was being penalized with an increase time-to-join a new game again (and a rank penalty if mmr was involved)
What they didn't do was to call the people leaving the game Cheaters

And this is my beef with ED.
Calling people Cheaters because they are quitting the game (menu or not-menu logging, it makes no difference) instead of finding some non-exploitable way of penalizing them. In game.

 

[[VR] DDM_Reaper20]

No, you get literally nothing for destroying another CMDR unless they have a bounty or it's for PP. No mats though regardless.

Thank you for clearing that up! A shame, really. Imagine if managing to blow up an engineered-to-the-hilt PVP murderboat resulted in mats popping all over the place . . .

 

[Ezren]

What they didn't do was to call the people leaving the game Cheaters

Yeah, because the situation is wildly different. Leaving in a MOBA still means you lose. Leaving in ED means you are actively avoiding a loss. So yeah, they're different. So it won't be treated the same.

And this is my beef with ED.
Calling people Cheaters because they are quitting the game (menu or not-menu logging, it makes no difference) instead of finding some non-exploitable way of penalizing them. In game.

You keep alluding to this vague magical solution that they should be using, non-exploitable and undefined, to penalize people. Stop pretending you have a better solution, 'make it better somehow' isn't insightful.

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

Except...


So:

So all I referred to was that the clogger/doxer and his clowns are gankers

 

[Ezren]

So all I referred to was that the clogger/doxer and his clowns are gankers

And you went out of your way to compliment gankers overall.

Can you not read clearly? Is there egg in your eyes?

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

There isn't. Again you are just legitimising appalling behaviour.

What's more appalling, people playing a game they want to and the way it was intended, or players getting mad at the way others play a videogame and calling them names?

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

And you went out of your way to compliment gankers overall.

Can you not read clearly? Is there egg in your eyes?

Yeah, most gankers are awesome. These clowns were not. No egg here

 

[Ezren]

Yeah, most gankers are awesome. These clowns were not. No egg here

Right, let's review:

I never even mentioned who was a ganker and who wasn't in all of that. For all you know it was an enforcer squadron getting doxed and the gankers that were clogging.

Do you need a towel to wipe all that egg off your face?

And then, the exact opposite of what you stated above:

So all I referred to was that the clogger/doxer and his clowns are gankers

"I didn't even mention who was a ganker in all of that, except when I did exactly that". You tripped over your own feet trying to do a victory dance and you didn't even win.

 

[Mohrgan]

Ouch...

 

[Maggie_Oz]

Because, in most cases, there is no way to demonstrate that it's bullying between players, rather than their characters, and the context of the game's setting allows and encourages far worse, from an in-character perspective.

being difficult to prove doesn't mean the bahaviour should be accepted.

Appalling behavior is legitimate gameplay when it occurs in an in-game context.

As I have mentioned the sort of behaviour I am talking about has no gameplay element

My CMDR trades in slaves and murders cruise liner passengers for the parts the ships they ride in are made of. There is no way this is contextually not vastly worse than anything the game comes close to allowing him to do to another CMDR.

You are doing it for parts, not jollies. It's completely different

 

[Maggie_Oz]

Still, my advice is: do not take it personally. It is extremely likely that the other guy is not trying to milk your anger, he is just trying to have fun.

This is the rotten core. "Just put up with it he's having fun"

 

[Maggie_Oz]

What's more appalling, people playing a game they want to and the way it was intended, or players getting mad at the way others play a videogame and calling them names?

There is no issue with doing anything the way you want to, it's when doing what you want to do interferes with someone else doing what they want to do is the issue.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

There is no issue with doing anything the way you want to, it's when doing what you want to do interferes with someone else doing what they want to do is the issue.

I take it you check every system that there's not players backing a particular faction before running missions, turning in exploration data or trading? If not you're very likely interfering with what other players are doing.

 

[Maggie_Oz]

I take it you check every system that there's not players backing a particular faction before running missions, turning in exploration data or trading? If not you're very likely interfering with what other players are doing.

I am aware of BGS issues, as I have said previously the only that times I have encountered this behaviour was when I was doing a community goal.

To further clarify, I'm not really talking specifics or requiring a list of things I should be doing. My focus is on the fact that a lot of the attitude towards the ganker/greifer issue seems to be based more on blaming the victim rather than pursuing the perpetrator. This is even at the developer level, although it isn't official there has been mention of combat logging being an exploit, but there has been no mention anywhere of griefing being bullying.