Combat Logging Punishment Proposal

[Wolf Starslayer]

NO to OP proposal, way to restrictive.
What we want is for pattern to be monitored and repeated disconnects in combat that your losing , or immediately after interdiction etc. are punished. Some do not have the best connections because of where they live to punish them for disconnecting in SC in a system with no other players for example is ridiculous.

 

[Luniticisi]

So if my game crashes due to some network issue, I can't play for an hour? .. Considering I have never CL'd but have had a few crashes (due to the game, not my tinterwebs) ... How about Nope.

 

[newman1702]

No as well. If a connection hiccups and I get dc-ed, not being able to play for an hour is definitely NOT "a good idea anyway". Who the hell spends an hour diagnosing what happened every time a connection derps? It can happen on your router's end, or frontier side, or it could be down to your ISP, or whatever. This would do more harm than good. Can you imagine all the threads saying things like "just got this game, grind is horrible, and I can't use the few free hours of free time I scrounged up because I dc-ed twice and I spent most of it waiting to be able to play again. This is ridiculous. I'm off to play Euro Truck Simulator as that game at least lets me play when I want. Also, I want a refund". I guarantee you you'd have lots of people exactly like that.

If someone has a certain number of suspiciously timed disconnects in, say, a week, FDev can assume with an acceptable amount of certainty that person is combat logging, since they're also being reported by other players. When they determine it most like is clogging, simply restrict them to private / solo for a certain amount of time. This reinforces the simple, yet often overlooked rule that clicking open does mean you can get attacked and destroyed by other players for no other reason than just being there, and if you don't like it, don't play in open. It also lets people who got really unlucky with legit dc's to the point that every time they're in combat with a player they have a dc - unlikely but theoretically possible - then they can still play the game, just not in open for a while. I think that works a lot better to introducing more silly timers that solve nothing.

 

[Winter Jasra]

If FD can find a reliable way to catch cloggers then I think we should just chop the cloggers hands off, no need to be too harsh with bans or anything.

 

[Luniticisi]

If FD can find a reliable way to catch cloggers then I think we should just chop the cloggers hands off, no need to be too harsh with bans or anything.

I'd would have suggested gouging out eyes, but your proposal seems fair.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

From the feedback over the last day or so it seems clear that there are lots of things in the game that some people consider to be exploits, but one that stands out as fairly universally accepted to be a 'cheat' is Combat Logging.

There are lots of innocent reasons why a client may disconnect ungracefully, and unlike the recent Engineers cheat it's much harder to determine whether a CLogger did so deliberately or not.

I'd like to propose a simple 1hr ban from the game following any disconnect, no matter what the reason.


If a client is having connection difficulties, waiting a while before trying to reconnect is probably a good idea anyway, if they are genuinely trying to diagnose why the game crashed or their internet connection dropped, pinging the server & other stuff can be done in this time anyway.

If the client CLogs to avoid being ganked the gankers 'win' by preventing the CLogger from reaching the station (for an hour) etc, adding something to the gameplay rather than simply avoiding it.

If the client CLogs to avoid punishment (eg spawncamper being attacked by the AA) then the newbies have been given some breathing space where the ganker cannot simply relog & carry on popping sidewinders.


Would this be a reasonable compromise all round?

I dunno, I think there are some holes here. In my section of Houston, we have small power outages now and then during thunderstorms, i.e. power is out, power is back on. It's simply a matter of waiting for my router to snag its IP, then restarting my PC and the game. It can happen any time, but has never happened during combat (though I have had server connection errors, albeit rarely, during PvE combat). I would hate to think that either of these conditions would result in me not being able to play for an hour.

Now, if you were to amend the statement above to say that any time you are flagged for danger, an immediate disconnect would result in the consequence, maybe.

I think the easiest solution is to just relog the CMDR at the insurance screen. Like I said, for all of the power outage disconnects I've had, there was probably one out of a hundred where I was actually "in danger" when the disconnect occurred, and assuming that the clogger lost the encounter they disconnected from is reasonable, I believe. In other words, if you disconnect while in danger, we assume that you have conceded the encounter.

That might even have the addedd benefit of encouraging some players to hone their escape and evasion skills.

 

[Siobhan]

If FD can find a reliable way to catch cloggers then I think we should just chop the cloggers hands off, no need to be too harsh with bans or anything.

Far as I'm concerned, if FDev can find a way to reliably determine combat log vs anything else, then Im all for any punishment they like up to and including a lifetime ban and prosecution. However, until they can, there is way too much chance of a false positive.

 

[Blaize Meduenin]

You do know what the only effect punishing combat loggers will be dont you?

Less people playing in open and more in solo / private groups

 

[Stigbob]

I've got a flaky connection (I live in the middle of nowhere), last time I was having connection issues (tree branches and high wind) and bothered to keep track it was roughly one every 15 minutes, but that was the worst I've known it to be. An hours lockout would be a bit over the top.

On a slightly different note how about an alteration to the menu logout, increase the timer from 15 to 60 seconds or whatever but allow players to confirm immediately and then walk away without having to wait for the countdown to confirm. That would leave people menu logging in combat vulnerable far longer (I think menu exit is probably more common than cable pulling,but less dramatic to talk about) and would allow people to get on with real life stuff.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

You do know what the only effect punishing combat loggers will be dont you?

Less people playing in open and more in solo / private groups

Burn 'em anyway!!!!!

 

[AnotherVoice]

A lot of competitive game have a timer when you disconnect too often to avoid a loss, but it is incremental, not 1 hour straight away.

I think a timer is a good idea, if you can make it work with the new karma system

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

Personally, I think combat logging is a complete non-issue. By logging, your opponent has admitted that they have lost. Whether they had to spend any rebuy is irrelevant given how easy it is to exploit credits in places like Quince.

I don't need to see pixels explode to know I have won a fight.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

So, I just looked through 10 pages of history and i can't find my CLogging Fix.

So I'm typing it, again. (This is probably why I can never find it, it's not one of my threads... Lol)

A tagging system.
When you enter any form of danger (anything that requires the 15 second timer to legally exit the game), a "tag" is placed on your save, which contains some information.
When you leave danger, the tag is removed. You'd be none the wiser.

If you illegally combat log, or have a CTD, server error, etc, while in danger, the tag would not be removed.

This tag is then read when loading the game, and using the information it stored, will only allow you to re-enter your previous mode for a limited time.

I particularly like this idea, because if you're just going about your business and suffer a server failure or CTD while in danger, you simply reload the game and continue as normal, in your previous mode, which we all do anyway.

But if you're intentionally combat logging in PvP, your only options are to rejoin the same mode, where your opponent may be waiting. Or don't play at all.

No one is ever barred entirely from the game, and accidental disconnects are not punished.

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead



Give it a few weeks, and I'll be looking for this post again.

 

[Asp Explorer]

D lot of competitive game have a timer when you disconnect too often to avoid a loss, but it is incremental, not 1 hour straight away.

A think a timer is a good idea, if you can make it work with the new karma system

Lulzbunnies will take that and run with it giggling like little schoolgirls.

Bad karma for a player that disconnects? Someone they don't like? They'll dump connections to those players faster than a hot potato with razer blades in it, and send FD the logs saying "eh combatlogid on us he cheetz is GREEFER" in the hope that some poor random gets walloped by FD

 

[rootsrat]

I'd like to propose a simple 1hr ban from the game following any disconnect, no matter what the reason.

If this includes time when the game freezes after exiting to Windows and you need to kill the process manually to close it, then it's a big NO from me, until this is fixed.

 

[Stigbob]

So, I just looked through 10 pages of history and i can't find my CLogging Fix.

So I'm typing it, again. (This is probably why I can never find it, it's not one of my threads... Lol)

A tagging system.
When you enter any form of danger (anything that requires the 15 second timer to legally exit the game), a "tag" is placed on your save, which contains some information.
When you leave danger, the tag is removed. You'd be none the wiser.

If you illegally combat log, or have a CTD, server error, etc, while in danger, the tag would not be removed.

This tag is then read when loading the game, and using the information it stored, will only allow you to re-enter your previous mode for a limited time.

I particularly like this idea, because if you're just going about your business and suffer a server failure or CTD while in danger, you simply reload the game and continue as normal, in your previous mode, which we all do anyway.

But if you're intentionally combat logging in PvP, your only options are to rejoin the same mode, where your opponent may be waiting. Or don't play at all.

No one is ever barred entirely from the game, and accidental disconnects are not punished.

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead



Give it a few weeks, and I'll be looking for this post again.

I've noticed that on flaky connection day's changing menus in stations, entering and exiting super-cruise and most importantly new things spawning in combat are the three big triggers of connection error's with the third being the most severe. Yours is the first proposal I've heard that would just pop me back where I want to be without punitive action.

It's brilliant +rep.

 

[mp4x]

Lulzbunnies will take that and run with it giggling like little schoolgirls.

Bad karma for a player that disconnects? Someone they don't like? They'll dump connections to those players faster than a hot potato with razer blades in it, and send FD the logs saying "eh combatlogid on us he cheetz is GREEFER" in the hope that some poor random gets walloped by FD

Yeah, agreed. I didn't know if it falls under discussing exploits/etc, because I don't see it come up here, but one of the problems with p2p networking is that the IP of the other player(s) in the instance are available. It wouldn't be too hard to take advantage of that, DOS the other persons IP and record their 'combat log' as they drop out of the game.

 

[Chaparral]

I think that a confluence of evidence will be necessary to be an appropriate standard. Ship health <15%. Not Inside a station. Another player in same instance / proximity. More data should be included to define the CL condition. Points for each documented CL should accumulate over time. Life time accumulated tiers should have specific consequences articulated as part of the EULA, unless FDEV wants a straight up ban...

 

[Truesilver]

As Sandro has kindly acknowledged in public reply to me on these forums (on phone or would link) some logs are both obvious and exceptional.

Example: Guy sets himself up as the latest premiere sidey-slaughterer of Eravate. Occasionally bites off more than he can chew, courtesy of Adle's Armada. Logs if and only if FSD or Drives shot out.

In those circumstances a one hour ban just lets him make dinner. It's nothing, and nowhere near enough.

 

[Asp Explorer]

How about for every ungracious exit of the game in Open, upon next login there is a chance of damage to hull or modules - like you get from an emergency drop?

Far from perfect, but it would discourage repeated logging for teh lulz.