Combat Logging

[[VR] Mad Mike]

No thats my response to all modes are equal, cause they arent. They have been trying to accomplish this. But its not working.

you dont play in open to understand it. People around here dont take part in every aspect of this game. So they dont see the imbalances. People think its fine because they arent effected. When there are lots of people that do see it.

but my post was WRT you wanting to remove the ability for a ship to highwake... it would ruin bounty hunting.

I dont play in open *currently*. I used to. you are correct however that i dont follow the PvP meta and so know very little about it, which is why i do not get involved in how PvP should be improved... but frankly i do not think that is important. i CAN still see when a feature affects things in ways you do not seem to understand, or if you do does not bother you.

so my input here is purely about your idea killing how I play the game.... you want to improve pvp, try and come up with a way which does not kill everything EXCEPT possibly pvp.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Its gonna happen. But thats not all it is. And most of the "pvpers" would rather pirate. But instead people just murder becausde of combat logging. Combat logging killed piracy.
…

At the time "piracy" died in ED there was no talk about "combat logging". Complains about "combat logging" started some time after piracy got declared dead by a lot of pirates.

Piracy is long dead in this game - if it ever was alive as a working game-mechanic - almost 2.5 years now (give or take a few months).

The final blow was probably the "Hutton Orbital incident". After that a few stubborn "nice pirates" keep going/trying, but the majority of players stoped considering pirates anything other than griefers at around that time.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

The final blow was probably the "Hutton Orbital incident". After that a few stubborn "nice pirates" keep going/trying, but the majority of players stoped considering pirates anything other than griefers at around that time.

yep iirc i was almost fully in open until that "emergent content". largely after then i moved more and more away from open however. Every exploit in the book was used by CODE in that one...

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

yep iirc i was almost fully in open until that "emergent content". largely after then i moved more and more away from open however. Every exploit in the book was used by CODE in that one...

You guys ever stop to think exploits are used to set an example? Showing its wrong.

Listen there were so many exploits reported with no change to them. So people do it and bring it out in the open for change. Like the Engineers Exploit or Heat. And now they are fixing some BGS exploits like killing cops over and over again. They said they are specifically fixing that with the new police forces so they cant be farmed to effect the BGS.

Tell me again why they wouldnt make these changes if there was no territory to fight over?

 

[GreyAreaUK]

You guys ever stop to think exploits are used to set an example? Showing its wrong.

Please don't be naive.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

You guys ever stop to think exploits are used to set an example? Showing its wrong.

…

Now that's a good justification for combat logging. Just showing what is wrong and using it to set an example.

No, really. No. It's not. Using exploits is simply wrong. There is no justification for using exploits. There never was. Nobody buys that "we want to make the game better by using exploits and forcing FD to react".

And the reason for the "Hutton Orbital incident" was according to one involved "being bored to death".

 

[AbsinthSvK]

Is it not pointless to discuss this? Devs clearly dont have interest in this. There are plenty of other more important things to fix. This is one of them, but not game-breaking.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Please don't be naive.

Oh yea? Is that healies for feelies was? Or Operation spicy bois? Or maybe the guy that posted on the forums showing the engineering exploit. While some streamers got banned for doing it and showing the exploit. After is was reported for 9 months. I know cause im the one that reported it a few times. And I know for a fact I wasnt the only one.

Im not the one being naive here.

EVERYTHING I have said on these forums, has 100% true.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

You guys ever stop to think exploits are used to set an example? Showing its wrong.

so combat logging is ok then just so long as they are using it to set an example and showing it is wrong?

come on dude, at least TRY to be impartial (i know it is not possible to be totally impartial, we all have a bias, but I AM trying to see it from both sides even if i disagree.)

exploits are wrong........ but its not cool to complain about 1 exploit whilst giving a green light to the others "as a point of protest". (note i do not endorse killing the game client to clog either)

 

[GreyAreaUK]

Oh yea? Is that healies for feelies was? Or Operation spicy bois? Or maybe the guy that posted on the forums showing the engineering exploit. While some streamers got banned for doing it and showing the exploit. After is was reported for 9 months. I know cause im the one that reported it a few times. And I know for a fact I wasnt the only one.

Im not the one being naive here.

EVERYTHING I have said on these forums, has 100% true.

Yeah, right./s

While some​ players will be trying to demonstrate the exploit so it can be fixed, the vast bulk are just gaming an advantage.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Yeah, right./s

While some​ players will be trying to demonstrate the exploit so it can be fixed, the vast bulk are just gaming an advantage.

They did, just like this guy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnYXTh4TCVo

so combat logging is ok then just so long as they are using it to set an example and showing it is wrong?

come on dude, at least TRY to be impartial (i know it is not possible to be totally impartial, we all have a bias, but I AM trying to see it from both sides even if i disagree.)

exploits are wrong........ but its not cool to complain about 1 exploit whilst giving a green light to the others "as a point of protest". (note i do not endorse killing the game client to clog either)

No I agree all explots should be fixed and punished. Combat logging is not okay, youre just trying to twist words. Ive been adamantly clear that its wrong.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

They did, just like this guy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnYXTh4TCVo



No I agree all explots should be fixed and punished. Combat logging is not okay, youre just trying to twist words. Ive been adamantly clear that its wrong.

To be honest, at this point you seem to be saying "exploits that don't directly affect me negatively are ok, but those that do are wrong".

If you think you've found an exploit then film it and submit it to support with as much information as you can. Then stop using it.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

They did, just like this guy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnYXTh4TCVo



No I agree all explots should be fixed and punished. Combat logging is not okay, youre just trying to twist words. Ive been adamantly clear that its wrong.

no not at all, I am well aware on your view that clogging as bad . I am not intending to twist your words!..... my point is you seem to be saying that clogging is bad but that CODE using exploits is ok because it was a form of protest..... THAT is where i am calling you on double standards..... I didnt mean to imply you thought clogging was ok.

 

[Harley Quinn]

No thats my response to all modes are equal, cause they arent. They have been trying to accomplish this. But its not working.

you dont play in open to understand it. People around here dont take part in every aspect of this game. So they dont see the imbalances. People think its fine because they arent effected. When there are lots of people that do see it.

I PvE, mainly exploration and BGS. So do many of my friends. Means I’ve been ganked twice now by PvP players just out to kill somebody. The last lot made me laugh, apparently they are all about the PvP end game and testing their skills and builds against others. That apparently equals 2 hard worked PvP FDLs taking on a lone BGS Python. Go figure.

But as I made more than my rebuy on the next job and was in open so their little bit of fun had pretty much zero impact on me and is a risk of the game, so who cares. What is a lot more annoying for me is a BGS enemy where I can never know who they are, how many their are, what they are fighting for or do anything against them other than defend in that scenario.

I have friends who PvP pirate, and boy do they have a hard time. Finding targets involves hours of waiting, hoping instancing will work, some compromising of PvP combat fits for the role and if hitting target rich areas the same hassle from murder wings the traders get. Add dodgy tools for the job, bugs, the need for macros or very quick typing while chasing, CLogging and time out logging and the grind to get a ship engineered and fitted for the job and it takes dedication to do. Add being able to remove yourself from ever being a target by PG/Solo and the rants against them by some people and it can be an annoying drag.

A few are just pure PvP fighting. Some because they enjoy the thrill of the fight. Others because they have become frustrated with other potential roles in the game. Some for in game RP reasons. But they still have instancing issues, need to grind for ships, fits and engineering for the task and potentially long waits for targets who may never appear. Many of those frustrated by things have tried bounty hunting and piracy, gained no real challenge from NPCs and had to deal with lack of traffic from modes and no decent tools for the job.

I even have a couple of friends with Internet issues who therefore can only play effectively in solo, but do want to enjoy the game and interact with it as much as anybody else.

I think there is a need for solo and PG, after all it’s a game and people are here to enjoy the game they want to play. But there should be risk and some balancing of modes impacts in my opinion. But even with all that, if a player chooses to play in a mode that involves the risk of PvP, they have made that choice and shouldn’t CLog to avoid the consequences.

While countdown is legitimate within game rules so I won’t condemn anybody for it, I think they need to ask why they did it? If to escape a griefer (of which there are a lot less than the forums would suggest) fine. But if to avoid a rebuy from non griefing PvP it doesn’t seem right to me.

That question does mean accepting that not all PvP is griefing which many do not as they just see somebody interrupting their game automatically as a griefer. It’s not, it’s just the consequences of a multi player game that others have goals which are different and sometimes at odds to yours.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

no not at all, I am well aware on your view that clogging as bad . I am not intending to twist your words!..... my point is you seem to be saying that clogging is bad but that CODE using exploits is ok because it was a form of protest..... THAT is where i am calling you on double standards..... I didnt mean to imply you thought clogging was ok.

Probably because things have been reported with no change. So they do it to prove it. Just like everything else.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

I PvE, mainly exploration and BGS. So do many of my friends. Means I’ve been ganked twice now by PvP players just out to kill somebody. The last lot made me laugh, apparently they are all about the PvP end game and testing their skills and builds against others. That apparently equals 2 hard worked PvP FDLs taking on a lone BGS Python. Go figure.

But as I made more than my rebuy on the next job and was in open so their little bit of fun had pretty much zero impact on me and is a risk of the game, so who cares. What is a lot more annoying for me is a BGS enemy where I can never know who they are, how many their are, what they are fighting for or do anything against them other than defend in that scenario.

I have friends who PvP pirate, and boy do they have a hard time. Finding targets involves hours of waiting, hoping instancing will work, some compromising of PvP combat fits for the role and if hitting target rich areas the same hassle from murder wings the traders get. Add dodgy tools for the job, bugs, the need for macros or very quick typing while chasing, CLogging and time out logging and the grind to get a ship engineered and fitted for the job and it takes dedication to do. Add being able to remove yourself from ever being a target by PG/Solo and the rants against them by some people and it can be an annoying drag.

A few are just pure PvP fighting. Some because they enjoy the thrill of the fight. Others because they have become frustrated with other potential roles in the game. Some for in game RP reasons. But they still have instancing issues, need to grind for ships, fits and engineering for the task and potentially long waits for targets who may never appear. Many of those frustrated by things have tried bounty hunting and piracy, gained no real challenge from NPCs and had to deal with lack of traffic from modes and no decent tools for the job.

I even have a couple of friends with Internet issues who therefore can only play effectively in solo, but do want to enjoy the game and interact with it as much as anybody else.

I think there is a need for solo and PG, after all it’s a game and people are here to enjoy the game they want to play. But there should be risk and some balancing of modes impacts in my opinion. But even with all that, if a player chooses to play in a mode that involves the risk of PvP, they have made that choice and shouldn’t CLog to avoid the consequences.

While countdown is legitimate within game rules so I won’t condemn anybody for it, I think they need to ask why they did it? If to escape a griefer (of which there are a lot less than the forums would suggest) fine. But if to avoid a rebuy from non griefing PvP it doesn’t seem right to me.

That question does mean accepting that not all PvP is griefing which many do not as they just see somebody interrupting their game automatically as a griefer. It’s not, it’s just the consequences of a multi player game that others have goals which are different and sometimes at odds to yours.

I agree with most of this honestly. The only thing that irks me is the BGS python and PVPErs, that was played correctly IMO. Defending their territory. Well, supposedly. That is what I'd like to see. You being in a wing for protection, you were a glass cannon. Squishy but able to make a large impact. You didnt do anything wrong. And neither did they.

As for the solo and private dudes. Man, I understand them wanting to be a part of something like that. But at the same time its an unfair advantage. Solo and private should only really be for personal progression. They are opting out of the multiplayer experience. If I played a game like LEague of legends with a bad connection, and Im speaking from experience here. Id get banned for ruining the multiplayer experience. Hindering my own team and the others. Thats not fair to anyone either. So I got a warning from Riot Games for ruining that gameplay. Same should go with combat logging.

The problem is Frontier is trying to cater to everyone, and all its doing is splitting the player base.

 

[Whitehair]

Its gonna happen. But thats not all it is. And most of the "pvpers" would rather pirate. But instead people just murder becausde of combat logging. Combat logging killed piracy.

I'll repeat what I said: I have NEVER been pirated, only destroyed without communication. No-one forced those pilots into that behaviour, they chose to shoot. Nowadays I don't do CG's in open because of the PvP'ers prefered methods of 'interaction'. No-one is to blame for that apart from the players who just shoot.

 

[StiTch]

I dont wanna be here on these forums. Its very frustrating. But I feel if we dont keep speaking up. Things wont change. They are looking for Feedback here. And there are lots of people in our position. Even the solo players suffer because of this stuff. What we have right now isint fair for anyone on both sides of the fence.

...

And thats really not fair to any developer. It was worth the shot though. And we have lots of cool things because of it. But at the same time, alot of the game is held back from being great.

Man what it could be.

Absolutely. I totally get where FD were going with the BGS thing, but refusing to concede an inch of ground to resolve any negative implications was just naive. Idc whether they split the BGS into solo/multiplayer or find an in-game way of making both relevant, it'd just be nice to see ED's potential come forward rather than being restricted on both fronts by each other.

I'll repeat what I said: I have NEVER been pirated, only destroyed without communication. No-one forced those pilots into that behaviour, they chose to shoot. Nowadays I don't do CG's in open because of the PvP'ers prefered methods of 'interaction'. No-one is to blame for that apart from the players who just shoot.

As long as players spend their time referring to the mental state of them nasty PvPers as the problem we'll make zero ground constructively.

Accept that these players will exist and that they have every right to, and look at what we're actually missing - consequence for them. And as long as players brandish their armchair-mounted pitchforks whenever these discussions come up, this game is always going to default to ridiculously conceived PvE mechanisms to hamper them, which inevitably do nothing to stop them and everything to harm the PvP bounty hunters that might actually balance the tides.

To take Sandro's livestreams as an example, it's not exactly new for players to try hunt developers during gaming/stream sessions. But other than the fact developers are normally a challenge to kill in their game, where are the people defending Sandy? Bored of a game where all PvPers are treated like psychos, murderers can combat log as easily as anyone else, and what you might call "legitimate" PvP is so thin for the effort put in that frankly you may as well spend your time torching the incapable.

 

[znôrt]

They did, just like this guy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnYXTh4TCVo

that was actually a good fight. nice flying, dude!
but ... what was that trying do demonstrate (wrt exploits)? :S

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

I'll repeat what I said: I have NEVER been pirated, only destroyed without communication. No-one forced those pilots into that behaviour, they chose to shoot. Nowadays I don't do CG's in open because of the PvP'ers prefered methods of 'interaction'. No-one is to blame for that apart from the players who just shoot.

Thats all we got. Thats why I am here. The changes I am asking for benefits everyone. Give PVPers something to do. Give context and meaning to it. And maybe this stuff wouldnt be happening as much. And you could find players for protection in wings. Has anyone ever tried going to a CG and asking PVPers for protection. Or getting ahold of the Iridium wing for escorts? They love that stuff. And would love to try to protect traders. But instead people just whine and cry instead of getting better, or asking for help.