Combat Logging

[Stigbob]

What cash exploits would this be then? Using the menu to exit combat is ok, but using the mission system in-game isn't - that it?

Yes exiting the game via the menu is absolutely fine, there's no problem with that at all they just really need to ditch the 15 second wait to confirm real life doesn't always allow for it.

Missions are also fine, exploiting bugs for cash however is definitely cheating it's no better than combat logging.

 

[Aashenfox]

What cash exploits would this be then? Using the menu to exit combat is ok, but using the mission system in-game isn't - that it?

I agree with you in principal, why should one exploit be worse than another, but I have to play devil's advocate here and say that one of those directly affects someone else's immersion, the other does not. Just saying, I don't want to get into the debate.

 

[AutoMechanical]

I see where the opinion is routed, but I still don't agree with it, because I've invoked the privilege of using the term "Valid Gameplay". So I don't believe I've made a mistake, just that I've put a tad more analysis into this...

Low wake?
High wake?
Log to menu?

Are we seriously going to accept the notion that low wake or high wake acts that take you away from an engagement are "combat logging"? I suggest not. In which case, log to menu falls under the same category, strictly because there is a timer and it is a valid sequence of button presses, the same as high wake and low wake. Strictly all "Valid Gameplay" in my view.

[up]

Cheerz

Mark H

To be honest menu logging and combat logging are still both bad sportsmanship regardless of which method the developer is okay with, and they both leave a sour taste in the mouth of the other player(s). Exiting the game to avoid loss is a huge issue in lots of games, pretty much anything that is multiplayer really and most of these don't have the consequences elite has.


I guess to try and give a real world example, it'd be like forfeiting a football match after the first goal against your team, it might be legal to do but it's not something that's going to make you friends and it's not fair on the other team or people watching the game.

Early leavers are usually punished with increased login times or cool downs in other games at least give problem leavers this. Sometimes that 5 to 15 minutes away from the game is a good thing.

 

[EddyRockSteady]

What do you guys consider combat logging? Alt tabbing and ending the task? Waiting the 15 seconds then exit the game? Or both?

Why does it matter?

 

[Deleted member 110222]

I combat log on the forums all the time.

 

[Aashenfox]

I don't combat log and I don't support it, but I want to know WHY people are so upset about it. What is the reason? What is the 'why'? Surely when someone logs out, you understand that you won? A player leaving any competitive game, from tiddly winks to the olympic 100m is an instant forfeit. You won, you even get to legitimately call them names and stuff, it's the best victory, cos you made them not only lose, but show what a coward they are as well.

https://youtu.be/iR3fSL9WMdg?t=128

 

[bigity]

Yes exiting the game via the menu is absolutely fine, there's no problem with that at all they just really need to ditch the 15 second wait to confirm real life doesn't always allow for it.

Missions are also fine, exploiting bugs for cash however is definitely cheating it's no better than combat logging.

Again, what bugs? FDev has stated (along with menu combat logging) it is not an exploit. Nor is taking advantage of any other mission system wonkiness that pops up.

I don't combat log and I don't support it, but I want to know WHY people are so upset about it. What is the reason. What is the 'why'? Surely when someone logs out, you understand that you won? A player leaving any competitive game, from tiddly winks to the olympic 100m is an instant forfeit. You won, you even get to legitimately call them names and stuff, it's the best victory, cos you made them not only lose, but show what a coward they are as well.

Clogger still keeps PP merits is one reason, for the few factions that have open mode power players.

Clogger keeps their credits is another -- maybe they are attacking someone's faction BGS and someone decided to give em what for.

So on.

 

[Flatkat]

Well, the more rabid ganker types will start screaming that anything other than dying is CLogging. Just asking the question is going to get you accused of being a CLogger and likely added to their little reddit KoS list.

Be sure your forum shields are fully A rated and engineered, you're going to need them.

This made me laugh,,thankyou

 

[Ozram]

I don't combat log and I don't support it, but I want to know WHY people are so upset about it. What is the reason. What is the 'why'? Surely when someone logs out, you understand that you won? A player leaving any competitive game, from tiddly winks to the olympic 100m is an instant forfeit. You won, you even get to legitimately call them names and stuff, it's the best victory, cos you made them not only lose, but show what a coward they are as well.

Well I had a guy just recently who was in a wing combat long (full task kill) on me and then his partner shoots me in the back and when I turn to engage he logs back in with all damage repaired and starts shooting me in the back as well. Full on cheat. Got a vid and everything if you want a pm.

 

[bigity]

Well I had a guy just recently who was in a wing combat long (full task kill) on me and then his partner shoots me in the back and when I turn to engage he logs back in with all damage repaired and starts shooting me in the back as well. Full on cheat. Got a vid and everything if you want a pm.

Another very good example.

 

[Ozram]

Another very good example.

And in my experience, even with video evidence chances are FD will do nothing.

 

[Aashenfox]

Again, what bugs? FDev has stated (along with menu combat logging) it is not an exploit. Nor is taking advantage of any other mission system wonkiness that pops up.



Clogger still keeps PP merits is one reason, for the few factions that have open mode power players.

Clogger keeps their credits is another -- maybe they are attacking someone's faction BGS and someone decided to give em what for.

So on.

PP merits? Credits? Rly?? Seems rather petty and insignificant in the face of a pvp victory, no? Why do you want to take their merits anyway? And how does them losing credits affect you?

Well I had a guy just recently who was in a wing combat long (full task kill) on me and then his partner shoots me in the back and when I turn to engage he logs back in with all damage repaired and starts shooting me in the back as well. Full on cheat. Got a vid and everything if you want a pm.

ok, but that's not combat logging cos you're losing a fight, that's outright cheating.

 

[Stigbob]

Again, what bugs? FDev has stated (along with menu combat logging) it is not an exploit. Nor is taking advantage of any other mission system wonkiness that pops up.

Clogging is obviously a cash exploit when it's done to avoid losing space credits, no different to exploiting easy space-credits in the first place really. Both are cheating to gain financial advantage or minimize financial loss, same end result. Admittedly both are less serious than things like the 5-1 engineer thing, but they are all cheating nonetheless.

Menu logging isn't remotely comparable to any of it, it's just people leaving the game.

Real life comes first.

 

[DoctorDanny]

Last month I was out exploring and ran into an unsuspected inhabited system (the one with Morgan's Rock in it).
I promptly got intercepted by a NPC clipper because I was carrying some escape pods.
I turned out I couldn't win the fight and was unable to escape quickly enough.

I was also carrying about 20mil exploration data and some first discoveries on ELWs and Ammonia Worlds.
Guess what the doctor did...

Sue me.

 

[Aashenfox]

And in my experience, even with video evidence chances are FD will do nothing.

This is a problem, especially where blatant cheating is concerned.

 

[Rampant]

To be honest menu logging and combat logging are still both bad sportsmanship regardless of which method the developer is okay with, and they both leave a sour taste in the mouth of the other player(s). Exiting the game to avoid loss is a huge issue in lots of games, pretty much anything that is multiplayer really and most of these don't have the consequences elite has.


I guess to try and give a real world example, it'd be like forfeiting a football match after the first goal against your team, it might be legal to do but it's not something that's going to make you friends and it's not fair on the other team or people watching the game.

Early leavers are usually punished with increased login times or cool downs in other games at least give problem leavers this. Sometimes that 5 to 15 minutes away from the game is a good thing.

Forfeit a football match. The other side still wins.

And so it *should* really be considered by any PvP types.

Opponent runs away. You win. You *forced* them out of the instance.

I got attacked today. I normally don't visit Open. I took all of 10 minutes. I low waked away. The other player therefore "won". Same if I had used menu 15secs. The other player would've "won".

It really is such an eensy teensy weensy issue that is being blown up out of all proportion by hundreds if orders if magnutude. So what if by low wake or high wake or menu log I escaped damage today? Get a grip. What is all the wailing and gnashing of teeth for? Ultimately, what is the *motive* behind the wailing and gnashing of teeth. It's just tedious.

(Is it really about the player escaping *maximum* heartache, and that the motive is just that - as I suspect is - just to cause maximum heartache? That isn't part of the *GAME*. That would be outside the game...)

Cheerz

Mark H

 

[Stigbob]

And in my experience, even with video evidence chances are FD will do nothing.

They can't they've thrown away any chance they ever had of being taken seriously with a view to punishing cheating. If you go back far enough the first big FDEV v cheaters climb-down was when they didn't reset all accounts on launch day leaving people with oodles of ill-gotten cash. Then they spent three years not banning repeat station greifers no matter what cheats/exploits they used and how often, most recently they let the 5-1 exploiters off by just taking away the modules.

The only thing you can do about cheats in ED is block them yourself, FDEV haven't done it and won't do it.

 

[Asp Explorer]

And in my experience, even with video evidence chances are FD will do nothing.

They can't do anything with video evidence - as it's so simple to manipulate circumstances that the "logger" causing pew-pews grief and emotional distress by not exploding was removed from the instance by the pew-pews themselves, and recorded in the hope of causing trouble for a completely innocent player for the lulz.

 

[EvE4evah]

They can't they've thrown away any chance they ever had of being taken seriously with a view to punishing cheating. If you go back far enough the first big FDEV v cheaters climb-down was when they didn't reset all accounts on launch day leaving people with oodles of ill-gotten cash. Then they spent three years not banning repeat station greifers no matter what cheats/exploits they used and how often, most recently they let the 5-1 exploiters off by just taking away the modules.

The only thing you can do about cheats in ED is block them yourself, FDEV haven't done it and won't do it.

Then a comparable punishment would be to remove from the game then ship used during the C-Log. Akin to removing from the game the exploited 5-1 engineered modules.

They can't do anything with video evidence - as it's so simple to manipulate circumstances that the "logger" causing pew-pews grief and emotional distress by not exploding was removed from the instance by the pew-pews themselves, and recorded in the hope of causing trouble for a completely innocent player for the lulz.

and how do you remove someone you're shooting at from the instance?

 

[Asp Explorer]

and how do you remove someone you're shooting at from the instance?

Like I'm going to tell you