ANNOUNCEMENT Community Update (22/10)

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I think I may be posting too much.
I'd better hit the sacks. Mrs Enderby is beckoning. Duties to under-perform and all that (FD knows).

But I want you all to know- all- whether idiot or cool person- that I appreciate you all and enjoy the healthy ripostes that this forum allows us. We'll all go on holiday together and wear speedos. Looking at you ! :)
Sleep (?) well my friend. More wine tomorrow. :)
 
Oh you bought me back I was about to shut down and do my duties regarding Mrs Enderby..

She'll wait for a few moments..

Do you think ED grew into a behemoth that they then didn't know what to do with?

As Geoffrey Goldenblum says in The Lord of The Fly "They spent so much time wondering if they could, they didn't stop to think if they should."
Or something like that. And a man got eaten while on a toilet and I think that sums things up better than I could.
 
One more thing. A fan gave me a bluray of Firefly - a televisual series.
Any good?

(I hadn't the heart to tell him I was currently in-between blu-ray players. But now I have one)
 
But that feels so defeatist...even though it's not up to us as players. The good bits are so fricking good.. but there are not enough of them
I guess I get annoyed because of that - amazing computer 'game' experience. I kinda feel like a parent watching my erstwhile uber-cool kid getting into Friends or something

It's called being realistic, and not swayed by emotions that can cause one to see the true facts differently. It sux but this is the way it's been. Look back at anything such as the iPad app which was great but quickly dropped due to... reasons.
 
I have, actually, bought colours for my gun-thingies, engine coloury things and ship kits.

Id love to do a spiritual (because its impossible) tally on how much haters spend on this game vs white knights. I bet there's some interesting trends there. Yeah i've bought 2 of the cheap ones already. But its hilarious too because arx is actually heaps cheaper than before arx.. and you get to be a cheapskate if you want, its funny as. Yesterday i settled for 2 things in military sand instead of buying more arx. Did it once with bobbleheads too.

I don't believe Frontier lie to us; they might not tell us any or all of the truth, they might be themselves deluded, and they might make difficult decisions which go back on previous statements, but I don't believe they purposefully lie.

I think this lie is a combination of a cm / marketing technical mistake, and a long running attitude frontier have to players.. all their actions in communication and game design imply they look at us more as their property, things they possess rather than actual humans. From not feeling the need to reply when spoken to (within reason) to being above playing their own game and taking a system designers approach. Just keep paying attention you'll see over time. There is strength in the software though at the core sandbox, so there is reasons why were still here.
 
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It's called being realistic, and not swayed by emotions that can cause one to see the true facts differently. It sux but this is the way it's been. Look back at anything such as the iPad app which was great but quickly dropped due to... reasons.

So, you don't have hope for improvement? I'm - (hold on a sec -Yes i'll be there in a minute Mrs Enderby, shush!) on the fence. I had hope. Saw it squashed, quashed, stamped on and now I want to have hope cos I love my little commander and his ship but I'm.. I need something to rebuild my faith in the project.
 
Id love to do a spiritual (because its impossible) tally on how much haters spend on this game vs white knights. I bet there's some interesting trends there. Yeah i've bought 2 of the cheap ones already. But its hilarious too because arx is actually heaps cheaper than before arx.. and you get to be a cheapskate if you want, its funny as. Yesterday i settled for 2 things in military sand instead of buying more arx. Did it once with bobbleheads too.

Sorry please carry on.

I hate on it so much because i think I can see how good it could be. I think... It must be hard for them but...
 
So, you don't have hope for improvement? I'm - (hold on a sec -Yes i'll be there in a minute Mrs Enderby, shush!) on the fence. I had hope. Saw it squashed, quashed, stamped on and now I want to have hope cos I love my little commander and his ship but I'm.. I need something to rebuild my faith in the project.
I never did. I saw what was coming - and what did come - ever since the 1.x era where everything changed and/or stopped.

Once FDev launched the game, and had (our) money in hand, that was it. They moved on to new revenue. It was the right business at the time as they were struggling, and more importantly for the top execs, they had to produce shareholder value. And ever since then their customer focus has been on the shareholder - not you, the game player. Don't kid yourself if you think differently.
 
Oh sorry dudes. Mrs Enderby is getting restless and if I don't read a few pages of Kafka to her she'll be hell to deal with on the morrow.
Goodnight
And - is Firefly anygood?
Good night!
 
Oh you bought me back I was about to shut down and do my duties regarding Mrs Enderby..

She'll wait for a few moments..

Do you think ED grew into a behemoth that they then didn't know what to do with?

As Geoffrey Goldenblum says in The Lord of The Fly "They spent so much time wondering if they could, they didn't stop to think if they should."
Or something like that. And a man got eaten while on a toilet and I think that sums things up better than I could.
ED is modular code. You can bolt things on but not change the basic design code, imo. Eventually, the interaction between the modules causes chaos. First dicovered this when learning to program in Basic. Goto, if...then, lookup tables and so on. ED is full of 1990s programming, or at least the concept is. C++ always leads to spaghetti, eventually.

FD have just run out of modules to affix to the original. Hence the 'new era', which is presumably a new game entirely...though I hope they find a way to carry over the credit balances.

Maybe Mrs Enderby can help?
 
But that feels so defeatist...even though it's not up to us as players. The good bits are so fricking good.. but there are not enough of them
I guess I get annoyed because of that - amazing computer 'game' experience. I kinda feel like a parent watching my erstwhile uber-cool kid getting into Friends or something
You gotta know when to fold sometimes. Just take it with grace, my man
 
It seems to me that what they need are tiny changes that nobody will ever notice and which have the most effect when they don't bother telling us about them.

  • Things like persistent NPCs. You know that chap that was mentioned in GalNet? Well he just landed on the pad next to you. Do you just ignore him or wait until he takes off and then blast him for a massive bounty? Or a dozen named pirates with a dozen followers each fly top-of-the-line engineered kill-boats and are based in a certain system. They are messing with the BGS all ways to Christmas and ganking newbies for lols. We need to pool all our sightings of them to locate the hidden base and then launch an attack.
  • Real Anarchy systems like in the old days. Systems so dangerous that you need a good ship and an experienced pilot to dare enter them. They could dial it up gradually over months so we got used to it. Then put something valuable inside one.
  • Massive multi-step mysteries that you have to build up from multiple ship's logs and then base terminals and crashed ships. Never mentioned in GalNet or any other official source, but leads to a valuable abandoned cargo. All this generated procedurally.
  • A mission system that can generate complex multi-part adventures procedurally.
  • NPC crew with a life and a meaningful backstory that sometimes encroaches on their activities. Your co-pilot gets drunk and you have to bail them out. They have to go home to sit with their dying father. They need 100,000,000 credits, right now to pay off a family member's gambling debt or protection racket. Their ex happens to be an elite pirate and comes gunning for them... or calls off an attack just before you blow up when they recognise your crew.

But could they make these a release that we would be satisfied with? Tiny changes to NPCs and missions? It doesn't matter now because the time is passed. We will get hulking carriers that 90% of the people who are waiting for them will never use and then bright new DLC. It will be 2021 until Frontier can develop any new ideas.

It seems to me from this thread that what people want more than anything else in this game is for all the flying around to mean something. And that means story, not new toys. But story isn't big, bright and shiny. It doesn't sell well on flashy trailers. It's not marketable.
 
Hmm so no carriers, actually this was not really importent to me anyway. I would just have bought one and after that the game is still the same old stuff.
In fact i rarely play ED anymore, beside the material collecting, a bit not really needed engeniering and making more credits it has nothing more to offer to me.

I was already dissapointed by the year QOL and bug fixing. Actually i was fine with the old layout and i did not need the new one. The codex was a huge dissapointment, it didnt cover my old already visited stuff.
There where a few new things but for me the gameplay did not change. There is still no real need to play with other ppl and some activitys are even bugged.
A lot features like CQC, Powrplay and Multicrew are meaningless. The new mining is something you can do but actually for me its more effective to use the old mining way.
The new combat zones are horrible, no more endless fighting and if you have a mission running you have to reenter serveral times to get the kill count. Some combat events might me a nice touch but the NPCs dont cont for the mission and some take some longer to kill or disturbing you from the real targets.

I mean im bored i did all that stuff you can do over and over and over again.
Then you release a new update with new bugs and even fixed ones are back almost every time.
I cant count how often i did post the bugs, did make videos, got told update your graphics driver and all that bul..hit and it took ages to fix so simple bugs or are not fixed for 2 years.
Really i did betas did post bugs but the live update had still the bugs in. I gave up doin this useless reporting.
How should new open betas change anything of that ? It didnt in the past, why should that change now ?

Putting back new content because you are unable to test updates properly and relasing a even bigger bugfest then before is just a bad joke.

Im such a fool beleaving the live time pass was a good investment, beleaving there is a paid update every year. Man i got fooled big time.

Its such a shame how this great game construct (basicly the best game Frontier has to offer) gets threated this way, with so many lost opportunitys.

You really think i care much for it anymore ? You really think ppl with stay and doin the same old stuff for years ?
It does not matter if you change they way to do it, the gameplay is still the same.

Offer different gameplay, with events, daily quests, some stuff to work for and has a meaning ( not the useless community goals ).
Make better teamplay stuff for booth multiplayer and multicrew.
Really do you have no ideas what to do ? Well ask the community for new stuff and have votes up for the best ideas.

I dont have any hopes for this game left with this anouncement and i was a big fan and promoter back in the day.
 
I for one welcome the pause on fleet carriers, one thing we done need is even bigger ships all over the place. I personally would have preferred more of the original iconic ships from the previous games and if they are to big for stations a shuttle launch bay.

Also as for fixing bugs you might need more than a year to fix them all after all wasn't Beyond a bug fix season as well and still some of the bugs remain from previous seasons like PP etc
 
I for one welcome the pause on fleet carriers, one thing we done need is even bigger ships all over the place. I personally would have preferred more of the original iconic ships from the previous games and if they are to big for stations a shuttle launch bay.

Also as for fixing bugs you might need more than a year to fix them all after all wasn't Beyond a bug fix season as well and still some of the bugs remain from previous seasons like PP etc
What if the Panther Clipper was a fleet carrier?


You wouldn't be saying that trash then lmao
 
Greetings Commanders,

Following the launch of the September Update last month, we’d like to provide you all with an update on our plans for Elite Dangerous.

Firstly, thank you for all of your feedback on the September Update, which you've shared with us on the forums, across social media, on livestreams and through the Issue Tracker. There is no doubt that, in addition to the new features, the September Update introduced a number of issues and bugs which caused a lot of frustration. We are really sorry for these issues. We realise that some of the issues had an impact on your ability to enjoy Elite Dangerous. The team have been working hard to address the most critical issues and have already released a series of patches and updates to bring those fixes in as quickly as possible.

However, we know there's more to be done. You've asked for more focus on existing bug/fixes and issues, and for the community to be better integrated into the development process and testing for these upcoming updates.

In order to improve your overall experience, we have decided to refocus our efforts on addressing key issues and bugs. Since the launch of the September Update, we've been taking a deeper look at our internal development roadmap, the way in which we utilise public betas, and the content of our next updates.

Here is a summary of our plans:
  • From now and into next year (2020), the updates will focus almost exclusively on addressing recent and longstanding issues, including those reported in the Issue Tracker, ultimately making the game better.
  • We are expecting to have a series of these updates, which will be rolled out (approximately) every three to four months.
  • Each update will also include a public beta that will run prior to the update's release, with a dedicated time to address major issues that appear.
  • The first of these updates will have its public beta in December, with an expectation that the launch will be early in 2020.
As a result of our updated plans, we have made the difficult decision to defer the release of Fleet Carriers. We are now planning for Fleet Carriers to be released in an update in the second quarter of 2020, rather than in December 2019 as previously stated. This will grant us additional time to refine the feature as well as focusing time on addressing existing reported issues. It will also ensure the state of the game is in a better position to introduce Fleet Carriers, that will provide Commanders even more opportunities to interact with the Milky Way. We understand that this delay will be disappointing for some players, but do know that this decision is one that we do not take lightly, and is made with the best interests of the community and game at heart.

Ultimately, we are confident that this will improve the Elite Dangerous experience for all our players.

The team have been hard at work on the next major milestone, which you may remember we mentioned back in March as our next major paid addition to the game. They’re making fantastic progress and on schedule for release by the end of next year. We are very excited to show you what we’ve been working on. However, we can only announce the content when it’s at the right stage of development, we estimate this will be ready to talk about at some time in summer 2020, after the Fleet Carriers update. We appreciate there is a bit of a wait, but we want to make sure it is ready to be shown before making our full official announcement to the world.

We would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your ongoing and continued support and for helping give us the feedback, steer and insight to make decisions that will benefit the entire community and for your continued passion and dedication.
A lot of cmdrs are disappointed as I am that fleet carriers have been pushed back by 2 quarters. Some others have complaoned that there have been long standing bugs and new ones that have not been fixed and other disappointments along the way. This is true as well. I personally have at least 3 bugs from original launch that I am still waiting for FD to fix. I was an original backer back in November 2012. At the same time, I also backed Star Citizen. Need I say anything else? We have been playing ED for 4 years or better and for the most part FD has eventually delivered what they promised. For those reasons I am ok with them taking some time catch up with the bug backlog and polish fleet carriers in the process. It will be worth it and FD will deliver as promised.
 
There is a different, bigger team working on 2020. So far as we know they have never been pulled off that work, even for a couple of weeks following the September fiasco.

Granted. This is the position that FDev has presented and we don't really have any direct evidence to the contrary.

The bug fixes in Patch 2 could easily be the work of 20 developers and the same developers will be doing the bug fixes going forward and the Fleet Carriers.

Easily? 20 developers? 20 developers are going to fix ALL the bugs going back to 2014, that have always been there? C'mon. Regardless of this notion (since 100+ developers couldn't find the time to fix it in 5 years), even if they hire scads of devs to fix these bugs, it doesn't change the effect to the code base, far from it.

The larger team will keep working on the 2020 release throughout. So none of this upheaval affects 2020. The bugs will be fixed and tested in both branches of the code -- that's standard practice --

Is it? For FDev? I realize for a proper, coherent SDLC, especially in video games, thorough and often extreme testing is the historical norm. I have seen the opposite from FDev from day one of this game's release! Repeat after me: "Elite players are the QA for FDev" beat "FDev support consists of ticket-closing automatons". And please don't try to change my mind, I've directly experienced this for 5 years, it's not a mystery or a debate. I honestly and sincerely wish it wasn't the case because I think FDev created the basis of a potentially great game here, but they lost their way early on (i.e. when they went public) and I still don't see any evidence of their changing any time soon.

without the 2020 developers needing to lift a finger. The 2020 DLC will have two years of solid development with no distractions.

Oh c'mon now, please. If they're really going to fix bugs that have been around since launch, you really think these hypothetical 2020 devs won't have to do some serious merge conflict resolution with the guaranteed changes to the core code? You really think your 20 devs are going to do all the conflict resolution themselves, and the "cool kid team" will simply trust and move forward with nary a glance? Remember, this 2020 update is purported to be so big and so amazing we will pay money for it.

Don't you think that if they are going to make us pay for the 2020 update, it has to be something we will think worth paying for? It has to be something at around the level of Horizons.

Good lord no. How many DLC's/add-ons/paid updates have you considered to be worth it recently? Duck, dodge, shade, tease with dishonesty and threaten to shut out reviewers - that's the world we live in today. I mean seriously, if the game play is going to be so amazing that people will pay for it, why not at least tease it? Like the smallest little vignette or clip?

I can tell you unequivocally that in hindsight I would not have paid for Horizons because, like many, MANY people on this board and not, I have played this game with an ever-present (but always unsatisfied) expectation that something is coming. Sometime, somehow, FDev is going to finally create the game that Elite has the potential to be (which was promised I might add!). Welp, we're still not there despite the constant promises. If I wanted to buy Horizons simply because I wanted "something different", or even through morbid curiosity, I should have at least waited for a sale; no DLC is worth full price if it doesn't significantly change one's experience, certainly not if you experience all that it has to offer in less than a week.

I honestly hope I'm proven wrong and full-blown space legs with atmospheric planets and flora and fauna arrives in late 2020. Has there been any evidence up to now that FDev can deliver such a thing? Hell. No.
 
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