More patience than effort - the FSS is not exactly a "difficult" system to use, just annoying (and painfully grindy).
Could Frontier please demonstrate how to use the FSS enjoyably?
- Thread starter CMDR Karrde Sun
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It does feel 'janky', yes. Similarly if you resolve a body by travelling towards it but do not map it the body remains unresolved in the FSS Scanner Screen. I guess this is an unintended remnant of the FSS being rushed to release, FDev have not commented. There are a number of outstanding queries about the new discovery process introduced with the 3.3 update.
Traveller's bonus? I never saw such thing on the brief hours I used the FSS before not being able to take it anymore, the closest thing to it that I recall was the passive scanning of stellar objects and objects nearby (which is only a FSS feature, the ADS would only yield level 1 scans and it wouldn't do so for stars far away).
ergo it takes effort to use it therefore a payment comes due.
ADS + traveller's bonus is just too much on one button.
You get a payment just for honking these days
You might be mistaking that "traveller's bonus" for the extra amount that was added for the honk on top of what was before.
Pre-Chapter Four: Honk to receive some credits, fly to body and do a scan for more credits, tag and body info. Get extra credits if you have a DSS fitted.
Post-Chapter Four: Honk to receive more credits, play the FSS minigame for the total ADS+DSS payout, tag and body info. Fly to body and get extra credits, plus one more tag, if you play the DSS minigame.
Honestly, I would have removed the "receive credits on honk" from both. But it's here to stay.
I arrived on the scene some time after the FSS made its debut, so I've always had it. I actually really enjoy the implementation; like the SRV scanner, once you get used to it it's fast, easy, and fun to do:
1. Enter system, honk, take note of the orbital plane.
2. Fly "above" the star (perpendicular to orbital plane, less chance of obstructed signals this way)
3. You can tell where signals are by the blue glowy circles, I generally "swirl" my reticle around these signal areas while "sweeping" the frequency back and forth, until the signal circles solidify and are thus "scannable"
This is admittedly really easy on my control setup (Xbox 360 controller, one stick moves reticle, other stick changes frequency band, triggers zoom in/out). I suspect lots of the frustration is due to suboptimal control setups.
We always did, it was spare change.
I give them the benefit of the doubt athough ignorance is not a thing to be proud of.
Allow me to summarize the objections from the last few pages.
- I can't be bothered reading old suggestions, can you post again so that I can continue to ignore them.
- I enjoy the FSS, you must be somehow defective.
- Utter fallacy regarding the rewards.
- Deflection by disputing tangential points.
- Highlighting the new DSS and/or Codex functionality in order to refute criticism of the FSS.
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Well then since the effort of getting a level 3 scan with the FSS is much less than the effort of flying to it, level 3 scans with the old-DSS functionality or FSS proximity resolution should be much higher for NOT using the FSS.
In my particular case, using parallax is REALLY difficult, so I should be paid even MORE. I think a million per icy moon should be a decent baseline.
Now do you see how ridiculous your argument is?
Nope - not even close.
Arguably - the value of the data is determined by it's nature not the method of acquisition.
Parallax method requires an element of skill but can be considered more rewarding from a personal satisfaction perspective.
FSS method is notionally quicker, but ultimately requires little or no skill to use. Referring to participation in the mini-game as effort is (at least) a bit of a stretch of the truth.
Pre-3.3 ADS/DSS method is slower and requires little skill beyond managing super-cruise speed and direction. This is preferable to some though despite it notionally taking longer to execute.
Regardless of the method used the value of the data is (or should be) the same.
No becaise you get your passive scan discovery and rightly cartographics too, you made the effort to get there..When FSS came in the honk bonus went up. All I'm saying is if you want the old ADS back, then you should get paid closer to the old way too. No problem right?
I'm then adding that you have new equipment on board, that somehow that equipment should not be redundant and that rewards for using an interface should be higher than for a one click. That reward is not going to be for the information, on where to travel to or where to point for long distance discovery, the ADS is going to give you that and that has a significant game/time value for your slot.
Rapid discovery is a bonus of FSS but I don't think it puts it far enough ahead of ADS. A chunk of the information it gathers will go to ADS.
(1) I don't think you'd miss the honk money and (2) I would load that in favour of using FSS, to reduce negative effect on usage of taking away half of it's functionality, which is - partly - the identification of high value planet types for mapping.
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False reasoning - the revived-ADS/ADS-replacement would not actually unveil any information that the FSS is not ultimately capable of giving with the honk as it-stands anyway.
The ONLY difference is with virgin/partially explored systems - the ADS-replacement would provide the same (if not lower) level of information in virgin/partially-explored systems as an FSS honk would in fully-explored systems.
The primary reason for the value of the honk going up with the FSS was because of the L3 scans being given for free for the primary stellar bodies in the system. In some cases this might be greater than the pre-3.3 ADS/DSS honk but in others it may be less.
Ultimately, there is no good reason to (in any shape or form) penalise those who may make the choice to fit the notional revived-ADS/ADS-replacement.
This is where I disagree. With the exception of certain types of rare unicorns, you can deduce the presence of most interesting things by using the FSS, without resolving a single body. There will be the rare false-positive, but IMO discovering a false-positive can be just as interesting, because it means that it's a rare orbital alignment.
This is what I don't like about the FSS. You can see how it was before the FSS by the names, and then there's always that one guy post-FSS that just has everything. Almost immediately, I felt like people pre-FSS should get some kind of extra graphic like boldness or shiny text or something on their discoveries.
I don't think people should be able to bang a system for "high-value" worlds. You shouldn't be able to immediately know what is in a system.
I guess it's all a matter of perspective.
this is mine:
pre 3.3 ADS/DSS exploration:
- Jump
- Scoop if possible to top off fuel tank
- Honk while scooping
- System's now 99% explored. I have a map of the system, I can tell at a glance what bodies are where, their orbital heirarchies, and their general makeup.
- Decide if I can be bothered to Supercruise to any of the bodies for:
- credits (already have tons)
- discovered by tags (why bother?)
- to see if the surface gravity is 0.1% different from the last twenty balls of ice or rock I visited
- If I can be bothered, Supercruise towards it, then throttle down at 6 seconds away from the body because the frelling DSS is incapable of scanning a body unless you're pointing right towards it, even if you're practically skimming its surface.
- Is there really any point in trying to find surface features that are allegedly there? Yes, the system map says they're there, but I could spend weeks flying through rifts and over other features where they should be, and never find any. I used to need to land on the surface to discover the material distribution of a planet, but that'll show up in the system map as well.
- Have I reached my limit yet? If yes, Buckyball it Back to the Bubble
- Otherwise return to 1
- Jump
- Scoop if possible to top off the fuel tank
- Honk while scooping
- Does the system have more than 45 bodies? If yes, skip to step 8.
- Take a quick peek at the gas giant band of the FSS. Are there more than four giant signals in the spectrum? If yes, skip to step 8.
- Take a quick peek at the planetary band of the FSS. Are there any non-icy bodies in the system? If yes, skip to step 8.
- Tune to the icy part of the spectrum, and do a pan. If there's no binary+ icy bodies, skip to step 10.
- Once the tank is full, fly clear of the star, and reenter the FSS. Tune FSS to the gas giant band of the specturm, and make a quick pan of the orbital plane, making a mental map of the system's major concentrations of mass. If I see signs of binary+ gas giants or other interesting things, make a note of its relative bearing and/or an easily identifiable constellation, then skip to step 12.
- Tune the FSS to the HMC band of the spectrum, and make a quick pan of the orbital plane, making a mental map of the system's minor concentrations of mass. If I see signs of binary+ planets or other interesting things, make a note of its relative bearing or an easily identifiable constellation, then skip to step 12.
- Tune the FSS to the icy band of the spectrum, and resolve the first icy body I see that isn't around a gas giant, in order to get a rough estimate of where the system's "frost line" is.
- Start flying in a spiral outwards from the main star, keeping an eye out for the telltale sign of planets moving relative to the starry background in the general regions of space where they might be.
- Once something has caught my interest, I fly towards it, while still keeping an eye out for the telltale sign of planets moving relative to the starry background along my flight path. If I do see something along my flight path, I'll do a fly by of that less interesting body.
- As I approach my target, I need to decide what my purpose for approaching this world is. A quick fly by while on the way to something more interesting requires a different approach than one where I'll be dropping probes onto a planet, which in turn requires a different approach than one I'm thinking of landing on.
- Once the world has been resolved, I need to check the
*sigh*system map for more information about the world, either to confirm my hypothesis about what I'll see there, or to get more information because its a relative unknown. - Have I finished visiting the things I find interesting? If no, return to step 12.
- Have I reached the frost line? If no, return to step 11.
- Use the FSS to resolve the remaining icy bodies around the central star.
- Are there any stellar bodies that remain unresolved? If "yes," use the FSS to resolve anything I missed.
- Was any other stars in the system? If yes, go to step 10, only I'll be spiraling inward towards the star, rather than outwards.
- Is the beta for the New Era of Elite Dangerous been announced, or has Frontier announced they'll finally fix Powerplay? If yes, set a straighter course for the Bubble.
- Continue current course and return to step 1
Using your suggestion, what we have now is effectively the active scan, you want it to have some risks, like......what? what would you add that wouldn't end up because of the nature of exploration simply become a hinderance, with how people react currently with the whole 'minigame' as it is referred to, how would dangers not end up in a similar category?
You are referring to practice with old system though where you scan what you head towards?
With fss, you are effectively an observatory, imagine if it constantly moved at the speed of light, the angles are going to get messy quick.
But again, I don't see any reason to why it couldn't be added, just doesn't seem beneficial.
Ok, but here's the thing, most any kind of thing you would need to do to get access to something could easily be labelled as a minigame and as such apparently hated?
As for "blaze your own trail" has and always means within game world and with the tools provided in game. Same with "Play it the way you want" again, also means within the references and limitations of the game.
Regardless of specific opinions about the FSS mechanics you are arguably padding the process out in the FSS case with mostly irrelevant personal "fluff" details. The same could be done in regards to the pre-3.3 ADS/DSS approach but to do so would be disingenuous.
The simple fact of the matter is that any information gleaned from the topological system map does not (and never has) carried the level of value to ED as you attribute to it. Your level of disdain for the pre-3.3 ADS/DSS approach to exploration is also quite palpable. I understand why even if I disagree with the reasoning.
The FSS has been poorly implemented - I think there is quite a significant level of agreement on this point, but where it is deficient is where there is significant disagreement and fragmentation.
Ultimately, the take away is that re-introducing something along the lines of the ADS would be the right thing for FD to do overall. There is too much ill feeling and disagreement over how exploration should feel and over what does and does not qualify as exploration. If FD are to show true commitment to their laudable product evolution guidelines then they should re-introduce the ADS (or something similar) as they arguably should never have removed it in the first place.
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That's because there really isn't one if said module is truly optional. The only "advantage" having an optional system that provides the level of information gained in already explored systems is that you can roll your ship so it's even with the plane of the system before entering the FSS... well that and you can exit the FSS and turn your ship in Supercruise towards the rare world with a highly eccentric orbit. But I'm not too fussed about that. In the time it takes to do that, I can usually deduce where it should be in the FSS, so it's really six of one, half a dozen of another.
I second that motion.
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