Could Frontier please demonstrate how to use the FSS enjoyably?

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This is why (rlsg will be pleased I agree) throttle > 0 should 100% definitely be a thing.
Personally I think it would make it more troublesome considering the speeds that the ships travel at.
Enter fss, scan about, and things will begin moving and shifting quite fast when you are going in one specific direction, it doesn't seem practical, but if people want to be able to move while in fss I don't see why not, I would still stop, or maybe just use it to navigate around stars if they obscure.
 
I've always figured that it was the same as the galaxy map and the system map: it's a holographic display projected by your ship. While I'd prefer the option to have all these subscreens displayed on information panel to my right, so that I don't have to block out my view of while using them, it's not like I feel like I'm outside my cockpit, just in a form of Altered Reality.
It does indeed operate very much as the system/galaxy map. Most likely attributed to the budget assigned to its development and in turn restricting its technical application. I will try harder to make up something in my mind to validate its being this way. :)

I guess the main difference with the fss as opposed to the other two, is one tends to spend in a considerably longer amount of time d1cking about in the fss screen compared to the other two examples. And for me that’s too long away from the actual game. I guess rushing through it as fast as possible in order to exit it equally speedily could solve that, but, that negates any fun and enjoyability you could of otherwise extracted from it. And then positively qualifies it as a chore.
Anyway, the fss is ok and very nice for what it is. And in no way do I wish to dishearten the devs or anyone else who absolutely love it. As mentioned before, this is only my own personal feelings and it’s these reasons I keep it’s use to a bare minimum.

Flimley

Addition...
I have gone back to 2D with my triple monitor setup especially because of the fss screen in an attempt to make the whole experience better. But... 2D is just duff for this game nowadays. It’s completely so awesome in VR. It just cannot be played any other way.
 
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Personally I think it would make it more troublesome considering the speeds that the ships travel at.
Enter fss, scan about, and things will begin moving and shifting quite fast when you are going in one specific direction, it doesn't seem practical, but if people want to be able to move while in fss I don't see why not, I would still stop, or maybe just use it to navigate around stars if they obscure.

Maybe add that you must have cruise assist, both installed and active to enter throttle + FSS.

It's true that it's highly irresponsible to leave your super-luminal spaceship's control surfaces unattended.

edit: I guess it's a bit like supercruising between star systems, it's only being allowed to do it, that will persuade me not to!?
 
Ah, it's Max Factor. Here we go again.

I don't think it was explicitly for that. I certainly don't remember them saying that is what it was for.
From the exploration reveal:
"All new "First mapped": You'll be able to add a first mapped across any planet within the galaxy, including within the bubble. Giving all players that have joined the game since it's launch even more opportunity to make their mark on the galaxy."

Having. Tutorial does not mean it's bad design. That is just dumb. So are you saying games like SIM city, total war and any other game that has tutorials are bad.
No, you are putting words which I hadn't said in my mouth again. I was talking about interfaces, not games. Your "examples" used gameplay - pretty much any game's tutorials these days explain the gameplay mechanics, because the interfaces are self-explanatory.
If you think that "if it needs explaining, then it's bad" is dumb, then you should read up on UI/UX design a bit.

Maybe he should read the manual and look at all the online tutorials.
Another thing you'd learn if you read up on it: it's not the user mis-using your interface, or using it bad.
Also, remind me please: what other interfaces in Elite had the devs insert an in-game tutorial when you call them up for the first time?
 
This is why (rlsg will be pleased I agree) throttle > 0 should 100% definitely be a thing.

edit: but ONLY if you have cruise assist, installed and active .. bwahaha

Your quote attribution should be to Drew, not me.

Before 3.3 everything that could be considered to be exploration was done with the BDS/IDS/ADS. Of that it could be argued that some was not (tourism or whatever) but some definitely was. Ergo the old process of discovery was exploration. That it was not universally popular is understood. The new process is not universally popular either.

Seems to me the obvious solution would be to have both in the game, there is no downside to this beyond the dev time to re-insert the modules, and had they not removed them in the first place there would be no downside at all.

They just need to actually do it, that's all. Then everybody wins.
 
Seems to me the obvious solution would be to have both in the game, there is no downside to this beyond the dev time to re-insert the modules, and had they not removed them in the first place there would be no downside at all.

I don't see how they're compatable with each other though and that's a downside. Keeping one (intact) makes the other obsolete surely.

You'll remember there was a bug once that opened the System Map with black circles for undiscovered planets. I think that's the only way you could have ADS while still having any reason at all to use FSS. Would a System Map like that be useful though, not really (and black unFSS'd gravity wells would easily be mistook for black holes, everywhere!).
 
Ok, but what would you see the explorer loop being like? would you want more details on the individual planets, so that we would need to be careful in our choices or waste a lot of time potentially finding nothing or?
Let's see. I've had detailed suggestions before, so I'll just sum them up in a nutshell now.
I'd separate things into passive and active scans, both as alternatives. The difference between the two being that active scans allow for quicker discovery, but opens you up to dangers. The FSS scan stay as a passive tool as is, and still an option to use who wish to avoid danger as before.
The DSS scan is too powerful and too monotonous now, I would take that (and only that) out. Have whichever scan you perform reveal the types of POIs present on the body, but have to use sensor pings or some other active gameplay - even the search zone mechanic already present in the game - to pinpoint the location of the one you're looking for, as opposed to having it handed to you magically.

As for the space travel, I don't see how you can change that without fundamentally changing the type of game that Elite is, there are some people that want to get both in system flight cut, and also increase jump range increased, it seems ending towards a click and I am there system?
As I said, active gameplay there as well. Have the current system in as the safe alternative, and have another one where you actually have to fly your ship to your destination, with an option of failure as well. Think canyon racing, just in witch-space. The farther you wish to jump, the more difficult the generated course. If you "destroyed your ship", then you'd drop out somewhere else, with damage to your ship too.
 
I don't see how they're compatable with each other though and that's a downside. Keeping one (intact) makes the other obsolete surely.

You'll remember there was a bug once that opened the System Map with black circles for undiscovered planets. I think that's the only way you could have ADS while still having any reason at all to use FSS. Would a System Map like that be useful though, not really (and black unFSS'd planets would easily be mistook for black holes).

Can you describe this incompatibility? Because the complete functionality of the ADS is still in the game (in explored systems). No black bodies required.
 
Ah, it's Max Factor. Here we go again.


From the exploration reveal:
"All new "First mapped": You'll be able to add a first mapped across any planet within the galaxy, including within the bubble. Giving all players that have joined the game since it's launch even more opportunity to make their mark on the galaxy."
Thanks for correcting yourself. Nothing there says it's been done explicitly for mapping stuff in the bubble. I

No, you are putting words which I hadn't said in my mouth again. I was talking about interfaces, not games. Your "examples" used gameplay - pretty much any game's tutorials these days explain the gameplay mechanics, because the interfaces are self-explanatory.
If you think that "if it needs explaining, then it's bad" is dumb, then you should read up on UI/UX design a bit.
Not putting words in your mouth. Its just that is what it looked like you meant. My apologies. Why is it dumb because it needs explaining? Reasons please.

Another thing you'd learn if you read up on it: it's not the user mis-using your interface, or using it bad.
If you say so.

Also, remind me please: what other interfaces in Elite had the devs insert an in-game tutorial when you call them up for the first time?
None. But the FSS didn't need one either. They just added it for people that wanted that help, none of us need to use the tutorial. Personally I find it a reasonably simple and intuitive system to use.
 
Also, no offense, but Elite in exploration doesn't mean much anymore, so no need to refer to "Elite explorers". You can spend 10-12 hours and get from Aimless to Elite.
True - do enough of the Passenger missions and you can get Elite in exploration pretty quickly. It is a bit late now, but perhaps FD should have used a different metric for Exploration other than monetary compensation from exploration categorised activities - they could have based it on the actual numbers and types of scans for example.

However, that does not mean that those of us that have earned Elite in exploration (at least mostly) the hard way should have their views dismissed out of hand. If anyone in question has linked INARA with their ED account and have at least one tier in Traveller and Explorer as well as Elite in exploration then that is a strong indicator that they can rightfully take some pride in their Elite status in exploration.

In the precise context of this discussion, I think most of those professing their Elite exploration status are those that have earned it - rather than rushed it.
 
The FSS complaints are far more fundamental, the key complaint from at least some quarters is the addition of poorly thought out (and badly implemented) mechanics as a blocker for an activity that did not need it previously. It is roughly comparable to erecting a brick wall across a public right of way with a rope ladder on either side to get over it when the brick wall is arguably unnecessary.
That's primarily a matter of opinion. I, for one, don't think the base mechanics are poorly thought out. If they were genuinely poorly thought out, I wouldn't be able to quickly find the interesting orbital heirarchies, planetary alignments and other phenomenon I'm most interested in.

It is true that the FSS does provide a bit of a hurdle to determining if a system is "interesting" to you. Compared to holding down a button for a few seconds, any activity that requires active input would be considered hurdle.


Unfortunately the ADS had to go because it's just not compatable with FSS. FSS though adds a 'fog of war' function that -- believe me - when ED first released and a fog of war didn't exist, people were gutted about missing out on. I think if ADS were to be restored it would have to be foggy in some way.

The ADS is no more incompatible with the FSS, anymore than getting information about a system someone else has turned in data for. Different people consider different things interesting, and personally, I think there's far too few actual exploration tools to choose from. As long as its an optional extra, it'll neither pick my pocket nor bloody my nose.

The ADS honk wasn't exploration. It was what you did before you started exploring
And for many players, once you'd honked, there was nothing left to explore, because the ADS had done interesting parts of exploration for you.
 
Can you describe this incompatibility? Because the complete functionality of the ADS is still in the game (in explored systems). No black bodies required.
Personally I would remove the auto find in the bubble from the game. Either buy it, use the Nav Beacon or use the FSS. But it was added as a compromise for explorers that wanted to know if a system has been already discovered before moving on.

As to incompatibility, has been said a million times. The FSS is all about finding the planets/moons yourself. If you have already found them with the ADS, what is the exact point in finding stuff all over again in the FSS. It makes no sense.
 
Personally I think it would make it more troublesome considering the speeds that the ships travel at.
Enter fss, scan about, and things will begin moving and shifting quite fast when you are going in one specific direction, it doesn't seem practical, but if people want to be able to move while in fss I don't see why not, I would still stop, or maybe just use it to navigate around stars if they obscure.
With a little practice, I've done while hurtling at multiples of c past gas giants... although I can usually only resolve one body before reaching the "auto resolve" range, and I have to plan my approach at that. Keeping the throttle in the blue while approaching part of a system I find particularly interesting while resolving distant icy bodies wouldn't be that challenging IMO. Doing the same while simultaneously flying my ship would be ideal. After all, flyving my SRV while operating the turret demonstrates that it can be done. I'd just like to do it.
 
Thanks for correcting yourself. Nothing there says it's been done explicitly for mapping stuff in the bubble.
"You'll be able to add a first mapped across any planet within the galaxy, including within the bubble. Giving all players that have joined the game since it's launch even more opportunity to make their mark on the galaxy." Emphasis mine.
I also recall them mentioning this at least once in the livestreams, but I might be wrong there. Certainly not going to rewatch them for this.
But why else do you think they added the ability to tag stuff in the bubble that couldn't, and still can't, be tagged for first discovery?

Not putting words in your mouth. Its just that is what it looked like you meant. My apologies. Why is it dumb because it needs explaining? Reasons please.
Again putting words in my mouth. I said it's bad, not dumb. "Dumb" is a word that you use, not me.

But hey, reasons won't take long. The very first Google search result I found was this article. Of the six fundamental questions there, the FSS currently breaks 3 (which you suggested yourself), 5, 6. Maybe 4, but that's debatable.

Then there are other issues too, such as the entirely unnecessary cascading effect and the grates, both of which grate (sorry) a lot of players, and can be tiring on the eyes - while serving no useful purpose.
 
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One honk knowledge is inarguably convenient .. but is it really exploration?
The honk in itself is not exploration - there is more too it than that.

pre-3.3 ADS/DSS exploration:
  1. Jump
  2. Scoop if possible to replenish reserves
  3. Honk (perhaps while scooping) - basic credits earned
  4. Super-cruise towards each body in turn doing detailed scans (and gaining discovery tags) as you go
  5. Maybe engage in surface exploration and/or material gathering
  6. Maybe take some screen shots while doing stuff
  7. Go to 1
3.3 FSS/DSS exploration
  1. Jump
  2. Scoop if possible to replenish reserves
  3. Honk (perhaps while scooping) - basic credits earned
  4. After scooping, throttle down and engage FSS while in super-cruise
  5. Play FSS mini-game to gain discovery tags
  6. Maybe fly to bodies to engage in Space-Golf and gain mapping tags
  7. Maybe engage in surface exploration and/or material gathering
  8. Maybe take some screen shots while doing stuff
  9. Go to 1
The additional mini-games are demonstrably an obstacle that have been foisted on everyone regardless of their preferences. So much for the tag line "blaze your own trail" and FD's historic commitment to "building on the past" and accommodating for different play styles.
 
Personally I would remove the auto find in the bubble from the game. Either buy it, use the Nav Beacon or use the FSS. But it was added as a compromise for explorers that wanted to know if a system has been already discovered before moving on.

As to incompatibility, has been said a million times. The FSS is all about finding the planets/moons yourself. If you have already found them with the ADS, what is the exact point in finding stuff all over again in the FSS. It makes no sense.

You do not describe an incompatibility Max, you describe agency. Choices on how to achieve a particular goal. The FSS is a handy tool for quickly resolving distant objects & USSs, it would continue to have that benefit on a ship equipped with an ADS. There is no incompatibility, only choice.
 

You are a little late to the party :)

Before 3.3 everything that could be considered to be exploration was done with the BDS/IDS/ADS. Of that it could be argued that some was not (tourism or whatever) but some definitely was. Ergo the old process of discovery was exploration. That it was not universally popular is understood. The new process is not universally popular either.

Seems to me the obvious solution would be to have both in the game, there is no downside to this beyond the dev time to re-insert the modules, and had they not removed them in the first place there would be no downside at all.

They just need to actually do it, that's all. Then everybody wins.
 
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