Could Frontier please demonstrate how to use the FSS enjoyably?
- Thread starter CMDR Karrde Sun
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I know that. But it isn't about need. Fdev are creating a game world. There is already stuff that doesn't make sense (galaxy wide telepresence), having the old style ADS in just wouldn't make sense with the FSS. Hence the reason why I would be happy if they were going to add it in something that works with the FSS so there is no world building issues, or something that is mutually exclusive.
I am saying this because I want to play in s semi-believeable game world, not a game world that has little to zero internal consistancy. It's bad enough as it is, I don't want it any worse as for me, that just slowly kills the game for me, bit by bit. Basically they don't work together well lore wise, which to me is very important.
The changes I would add are:
- Add the signitures to the Analysis mode bar after a honk.
- When you pinpoint a body using the signature bar and the FSS without zooming, that should fill in the system map with type of body and some basic information and they should be targetable too.
For the ADS, my preference is not to have it at all, but understand that others do.
My most disliked option would be a mutually exclusive system that gives full use of the old style ADS. I don't like it, but I would be willing to compromise in that way.
My preferred option would be to have a modified BDS/IDS/ADS (ranges may need to change on these). These will basically do the second bulletpoint above for you. But as these add automation of FSS they come with drawbacks. The better the scanner upgrade the heavier (needs bigger slot) and more power hungry it is.
This will allow people to play like they did before, and it will allow people to upgrade their FSS with some kind of automation if needed, but with drawbacks.
Basically it works well with the FSS, but allows you to bypass the FSS with some drawbacks if you so need.
This is not about being inconvenient or spiteful. This is just how I would like to see it done, if it was to be done. Nothing more, nothing less.
As I said, my preferred option would be to not have the ADS at all, as I think its the worst mechanic ever put into the game. But that is my own opinion and I am sure others will feel differently. Thats life.
Yeah, based on the number of sales we're down to around 95,000,000 systems each!
If I'm reading this right, you've dropped the mutually-exclusive limitation. If that's the case then I have no issue with your compromise solution - since it's pretty much what we've been asking for all along.
The massively extreme majority of which are > 10kLy from Sol.
Beagle Point etc are great trips but I don't think - for newer players - extreme distance should be the number one absolute requirement for finding interesting planets. Supercharged cherry picking (ADS + FSS) pushes that experience further and further away from Sol.
There are three options.
- My preferred option is no ADS
- The changed version of the ADS which I described above that can work with the FSS.
- or my least prefered option the old style ADS which is mutually exclusive.
My only problem with FSS is the terribly dull bit when one points at the blobs then twiddles the thing. As if i was using some ancient tech (rather than something akin to an ADS)).
That bit is just so boring, repetitive and not like playing a fun game that i gave up my exploration trip
The rest of it is OK i guess but that part is woeful. Why did exploration tech get worse? Gimme auto-resolve already
That bit is just so boring, repetitive and not like playing a fun game that i gave up my exploration trip
The rest of it is OK i guess but that part is woeful. Why did exploration tech get worse? Gimme auto-resolve already
I agree with this. The glyph arrows at the moment show up if you're inside a specific range of the unresolved blob. I think the glyph should point you to unresolved blobs anywhere in the scan screen. That saves you from searching the screen.
The vast majority of stars are more that 20 LY from Sol. I'm not sure what your point is.
FSS and ADS does not 'turbocharge' cherry-picking. The FSS alone does that, since it removes the time-consuming flying your ship around element. Since this was Fdev's specified intention when designing the FSS, it would appear that they're a lot less concerned about cherry-picking than you appear to be.
But you want to go back to a far more boring and unfun way of doing things.
For the record, personally I don't find the term "cherry-picking" negative, but I'm aware that many people do. I am not aware, however, of a better term, unless you want to describe it in three-four words.
That said, while the FSS obviously made complete system scans much easier and quicker, the reality is that few people do that. Take a look at EDSM's numbers: these days, people scan an average of 4 bodies per system. (This doesn't include the auto-scanned stars.) Depending on where you are in the galaxy, systems tend to have an average of 10-12 bodies. No surprises there: a system designed for cherry-picking is primarily used for cherry-picking. Complete system mapping still remains a niche activity.
Oh, and before anyone says that EDSM's numbers aren't representative, consider this. Over half of DW2's roster was on EDSM: 13,615 signed up, 7,724 on EDSM (56.7%). Moreover, of the 3,473 people that finished to date (25.5%), 2,448 were on EDSM, and only 1,025 weren't. In other words, the completion rate was 44.96% on EDSM, and only 17.4% without. In other words, those who submit to EDSM are over twice as likely to have persevered and finished than those who don't - and this is DW2 we're talking about, not a grand circumnavigation or a survey.
Console players can also use EDSM these days, although I have no idea how many of them actually did (for DW2).
This reinforces not just that EDSM's numbers are representative of exploration activity, but also that they most likely represent the majority of it. Explorers who stick around longer with exploration share their finds on EDSM more often than don't.
Also, to Max Factor, Enderby and everyone who argues about "fun", let me borrow Darkfyre99's words: You do realize that you're arguing against feelings and what people find fun, right? These are two completely subjective things. It doesn't matter what you think of the FSS, there's going to be people who use the FSS and think, "I'm playing a lockpicking minigame over and over and over, this is terrible!"
I'm not going to go as far as to call it an abomination, as he did the ADS. Calling names isn't helpful, and claiming something is objectively fun / not fun for everyone is pointless. The fact is though that Frontier removed something that people found fun (even though it was obviously a placeholder mechanic) and replaced it with something that they don't find fun, with no alternative. That was a first, I believe.
As for what some of you have asked, about what I and others would prefer: well, I can't speak for others, just for myself. I want the information I used to have back, first and foremost. If I have to sacrifice any functionality of the FSS for it, I don't think I'd mind. If I had to fit an "ADS" or an FSS, not both, and thus lose the ability to scan stuff at infinite range and see POI types on landable planets, but have to fly to planets to scan them, I wouldn't mind that at all. I've seen all that the planetside POIs have to offer anyway. Again, I can't speak for others, but I'm fairly certain that of all the veteran explorers I know, the vast majority of them would pick this option too. Except one or two.
However, a more simple method would be to have a toggleable option: reveal the system map after the honk or not. (The game already knows it all.) That way, all the missing information is back, while those who don't like that the system map is populated with already-discovered bodies would have the option to turn that off for themselves. Win-win.
That said, while the FSS obviously made complete system scans much easier and quicker, the reality is that few people do that. Take a look at EDSM's numbers: these days, people scan an average of 4 bodies per system. (This doesn't include the auto-scanned stars.) Depending on where you are in the galaxy, systems tend to have an average of 10-12 bodies. No surprises there: a system designed for cherry-picking is primarily used for cherry-picking. Complete system mapping still remains a niche activity.
Oh, and before anyone says that EDSM's numbers aren't representative, consider this. Over half of DW2's roster was on EDSM: 13,615 signed up, 7,724 on EDSM (56.7%). Moreover, of the 3,473 people that finished to date (25.5%), 2,448 were on EDSM, and only 1,025 weren't. In other words, the completion rate was 44.96% on EDSM, and only 17.4% without. In other words, those who submit to EDSM are over twice as likely to have persevered and finished than those who don't - and this is DW2 we're talking about, not a grand circumnavigation or a survey.
Console players can also use EDSM these days, although I have no idea how many of them actually did (for DW2).
This reinforces not just that EDSM's numbers are representative of exploration activity, but also that they most likely represent the majority of it. Explorers who stick around longer with exploration share their finds on EDSM more often than don't.
Also, to Max Factor, Enderby and everyone who argues about "fun", let me borrow Darkfyre99's words: You do realize that you're arguing against feelings and what people find fun, right? These are two completely subjective things. It doesn't matter what you think of the FSS, there's going to be people who use the FSS and think, "I'm playing a lockpicking minigame over and over and over, this is terrible!"
I'm not going to go as far as to call it an abomination, as he did the ADS. Calling names isn't helpful, and claiming something is objectively fun / not fun for everyone is pointless. The fact is though that Frontier removed something that people found fun (even though it was obviously a placeholder mechanic) and replaced it with something that they don't find fun, with no alternative. That was a first, I believe.
As for what some of you have asked, about what I and others would prefer: well, I can't speak for others, just for myself. I want the information I used to have back, first and foremost. If I have to sacrifice any functionality of the FSS for it, I don't think I'd mind. If I had to fit an "ADS" or an FSS, not both, and thus lose the ability to scan stuff at infinite range and see POI types on landable planets, but have to fly to planets to scan them, I wouldn't mind that at all. I've seen all that the planetside POIs have to offer anyway. Again, I can't speak for others, but I'm fairly certain that of all the veteran explorers I know, the vast majority of them would pick this option too. Except one or two.
However, a more simple method would be to have a toggleable option: reveal the system map after the honk or not. (The game already knows it all.) That way, all the missing information is back, while those who don't like that the system map is populated with already-discovered bodies would have the option to turn that off for themselves. Win-win.
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That is precisly why I reply to Enderby like that. Did you miss the wink.
But you want to go back to a far more boring and unfun way of doing things.
As usual, you miss the point (intentionally? I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt).
Boring and brief
Is better than boring and convoluted.
Negative. The FSS does not require you to fly to the planet but it does require you to use the FSS.
The fact that FSS requires activity - and is not a one shot honk - means you're less likely to fire it up unless you're in an area you want to explore. If that system is halfway to a destination you want to reach quickly, you're less likely to use FSS. That leaves undiscovered systems behind you.
What? I've got no idea what you're talking about here.
The FSS tells you exactly what's in a system and takes only seconds to fire up. If there's a valuable body in the system, an evil cherry-picker can scan it immediately, without having to fly to the body.
An optional ADS would also tell you exactly what's in the system (subject to learning the planet images) - but doesn't provide the evil cherry-picker any benefit over the FSS.
It does. eg. You enter system X, 37 bodies, 1 ELW.
Option A; FSS to resolve all 37 bodies, uncovering the ELW (I arrive to find an explored system with earth-like world).
Option B; ADS honk, open system map find ELW, target close system map. Aim ship at target and FSS, it's right in front of you. (I arrive to find a system of one earthlike and most likely nothing else, I don't bother resolving the rest of system as it's obviously nothing but ice worlds. Then I predict the next 10 systems I visit will be exactly the same)
Yes, I wouldn't change the tuning just increase the range, so if you're tuned, you always get a pointer to the unresolved body you're tuned to.
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Many people do find it fun and interesting to use.
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