Could Frontier please demonstrate how to use the FSS enjoyably?

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I agree with everything but the last parts - I am still waiting for the functionality of the ADS to be put back into the game for virgin & partially explored systems, just as it has been for pre-tagged & pre-populated systems, in an optional way. It is the obvious solution that satisfies all the criteria.

Or of course, some good reason why it cannot be done, which having investigated, doesn't appear to be the case.

I would be very happy to have this justification be provided (along with a sincere apology for the delay and dismissively stoic stance towards legitimate customer concerns) by someone senior if that was not Adam's decision. I bear no grudge or ill will, I just want due process to be followed as has been well established in other changes.

This lack of attention to detail is my number one issue with the game, generally I am a big fan of the franchise. Normally great care is taken over how changes will affect the playerbase, in this singular case (that I am aware of) that care was not taken. It needs to be corrected, and the protracted delay does not make that easier. It should have been corrected, or at least addressed, before the product went live in December.

I am not overly concerned about the new stuff, it is okay, I have used it, I am familiar with it, I don't think it's awful but it's not a design classic either. I don't mind how others play their game, but I do want to be able to continue to play the game I bought if there is not a good reason for it to have to change.

That begs the question of what you'd consider to be a 'good reason'.

The reason may be as simple as whoever is making the decision really doesn't like the ADS (It's not like they'd be alone in that feeling), in which case FDev are hardly going to enter into a dialog with players about it.

Expecting any further information from FDev, especially some details of their reasoning which you find acceptable, is likely to leave you disappointed.

 

[Old Duck]

...
Today, in its current iteration, we’re happy with how the FSS operates and feel that reinstating the ADS would be detrimental to the experience of exploration as it is now.

At the current time, we won’t be making changes to the core of the FSS.
...

I too am happy with the FSS, though I think it needs some minor tweaks. Scanning for the existence for geological POIs takes way too long. Often planet details do not display unless you target the planet or zoom out and in again. Pop-up notifications (especially those dreaded asteroid belts) block important information about the planet I'm currently scanning. All of these feel like bugs or design mistakes that really need to be fixed so that the FSS can be all it's meant to be.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I have travelled over 1,000,000 Ly and been in the 4 cardinal limits of the galaxy, you can hardly get more "existing" than that...

Mines bigger then yours so there.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Mines bigger then yours so there.

Send me a picture

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I too am happy with the FSS, though I think it needs some minor tweaks. Scanning for the existence for geological POIs takes way too long. Often planet details do not display unless you target the planet or zoom out and in again. Pop-up notifications (especially those dreaded asteroid belts) block important information about the planet I'm currently scanning. All of these feel like bugs or design mistakes that really need to be fixed so that the FSS can be all it's meant to be.

And the frequency setting needs to persist when you close the FSS.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Send me a picture

This isn't a dating site!

 

[Riverside]

That begs the question of what you'd consider to be a 'good reason'.

After this long? I don't think there is one, as I have said. They just need to put the old modules back into the game (or replicate the functionality in an optional way) and if someone at Frontier really wants it gone, learn the lesson to regularly communicate that (weak) justification nice & early and not leave 'placeholder' mechanics in the game for several years.

IMO.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Hello Commanders,

I wanted to drop in and let you that we have been reading your comments and are aware how some of you feel about the FSS.

When first designing the FSS, we wanted to ensure that it was engaging for as many different player types as possible, but also understood that it would not be possible to design a system that would work for everyone. Before the FSS was implemented, we also collected feedback from discussions on the forum and the beta.

Today, in its current iteration, we’re happy with how the FSS operates and feel that reinstating the ADS would be detrimental to the experience of exploration as it is now.

At the current time, we won’t be making changes to the core of the FSS. While we understand that this may be disappointing for some of you, we would like to thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and feedback with us.

I also really enjoy using the FSS. In my view exploration is now a pleasure instead of a chore.

But there are some things I would like to see enhanced or changed.

1. The signature bar at the bottom would be good if it was part of the analysis mode after a honk, giving that mode some meaning.

2. Too much information is given with the FSS. I propose that the number of POIs should be moved to the DSS, the FSS should just reveal type. It should also just tell you the type of materials present, but the percentage amount should be again moved to the DSS. Give the probes more meaning instead of just a POI finder. Give reason to probe other planets without POI not including credits and tags.

3. When using the FSS, when you discover a planet (hover over the point) and dialed it in it should fill in the system map without the need to zoom in on it.
This will give more options on how to explore the system. Some do not all the information in one go.

 

[biot]

Man, I tune out from this thread for a few days and come back to find that Elvis, dressed as a fat lady, has belted out a few bars and left the building.

 

[rootsrat]

On both sides...

Like all the other Great Arguments - Open vs Solo, PvE vs PvP, Instant vs Not Instant ship transfer, Federation vs Empire and so on

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Here's a RL fact that shows you are wrong, when mining was updated, FD left in place the old method as well thus not altering the gameplay of the few that enjoyed the old ways, we've never heard FD state why exactly the ADS can't come back...

Except Mining was not so fundamentally changed. It was added to, and operates by different mechanics, different chunks of program code. The additions that were made were not an exclusive set of changes.

We’re also not Entitled to know why, beyond what we actually have been told by Frontier:

They did not like the old system. That’s all the reason for changing it they need. I’m not wrong, this is a fact.

 

[Faded Glory]

1. The signature bar at the bottom would be good if it was part of the analysis mode after a honk, giving that mode some meaning.

This would be good if it also meant that nothing was auto-discovered and tagged, that way I could look at a system (as before), decide it didn't interest me, and leave it untouched.

2. Too much information is given with the FSS. I propose that the number of POIs should be moved to the DSS, the FSS should just reveal type. It should also just tell you the type of materials present, but the percentage amount should be again moved to the DSS. Give the probes more meaning instead of just a POI finder. Give reason to probe other planets without POI not including credits and tags.

That would make sense as a gameplay flow - one action leading on to another, certainly with regards to POI's. It wouldn't bother me regarding materials present on the planet as I gather materials when I need them for engineering, not when I'm out exploring, others may not like it that much, and it does rather go against the idea that you make a journey somewhere because you know that whatever you are looking for will be there, not that you hope it will be...

3. When using the FSS, when you discover a planet (hover over the point) and dialed it in it should fill in the system map without the need to zoom in on it.
This will give more options on how to explore the system. Some do not all the information in one go.

Something along these lines would be very welcome from my point of view, although the act of zooming in on a planet is so quick that this in itself wouldn't make an appreciable difference. Perhaps simply centering the reticule over a point representing a body without needing to tune the energy spectrum could do what you suggest, and again that way a player wouldn't need to tag bodies that they weren't interested in. Obviously bodies then show up in the system map as unexplored.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing your suggestions, far from it, and my point above is not to do with how long it takes or how difficult it might be, simply that just cutting out the zoom in on a body, which takes a second or two, doesn't seem that much of an appreciable difference.

 

[Lestat]

Not changing the core is perfectly fine for me. But would you consider:

1. Removing the "throttle to zero" requirement?

We know how to use our ships, being able to move while scanning would be so helpful. (The FSS can handle motion. You can speed up your ship, then set the throttle to zero and use the FSS. The ship still takes a while to decelerate, things in the FSS are moving, but you can use it. )

Also, it would finally give some use to exploration in multi-crew.


2. Implement a "snap to target" function.

When your marker is close enough to a target (range can be adjusted in settings) and the speed you apply to the marker is low enough (speed limit can be adjusted in settings), the FSS automatically locks the marker to the object and follows it.

As positive sidenote, this would not only help when trying to catch moving objects, but also would make the FSS generally a bit more enjoyable to use.


3. Adding the ships radar into the FSS.

I would appreciate it so much, if i could see what's happening around my ship while i am scanning.

This would be great if you are heading a set location. Let say Star to Planet. They will not be moving. Unlike the Other planets in the same system.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I agree with everything but the last parts - I am still waiting for the functionality of the ADS to be put back into the game for virgin & partially explored systems, just as it has been for pre-tagged & pre-populated systems, in an optional way. It is the obvious solution that satisfies all the criteria.

Or of course, some good reason why it cannot be done, which having investigated, doesn't appear to be the case.

I would be very happy to have this justification be provided (along with a sincere apology for the delay and dismissively stoic stance towards legitimate customer concerns) by someone senior if that was not Adam's decision. I bear no grudge or ill will, I just want due process to be followed as has been well established in other changes.

This lack of attention to detail is my number one issue with the game, generally I am a big fan of the franchise. Normally great care is taken over how changes will affect the playerbase, in this singular case (that I am aware of) that care was not taken. It needs to be corrected, and the protracted delay does not make that easier. It should have been corrected, or at least addressed, before the product went live in December.

I am not overly concerned about the new stuff, it is okay, I have used it, I am familiar with it, I don't think it's awful but it's not a design classic either. I don't mind how others play their game, but I do want to be able to continue to play the game I bought if there is not a good reason for it to have to change.

I simply cannot conceive how this could work. A stellar body is either known or unknown. It can’t be “kind of known” in an unexplored system. The reason systems in the bubble that you personally had not visited came with “pre-populated” bodies is that these are considered “well known” bodies. If you’ve never been to Sol you’d still know about Saturn, and it would pre-populate your list of stellar bodies, because its existence is “common knowledge”.

How could you possibly expect this where no one has been?

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

This would be good if it also meant that nothing was auto-discovered and tagged, that way I could look at a system (as before), decide it didn't interest me, and leave it untouched.

Thanks.

That would make sense as a gameplay flow - one action leading on to another, certainly with regards to POI's. It wouldn't bother me regarding materials present on the planet as I gather materials when I need them for engineering, not when I'm out exploring, others may not like it that much, and it does rather go against the idea that you make a journey somewhere because you know that whatever you are looking for will be there, not that you hope it will be...

The idea is that you would still know what materials are there, just not the percentages.

Something along these lines would be very welcome from my point of view, although the act of zooming in on a planet is so quick that this in itself wouldn't make an appreciable difference. Perhaps simply centering the reticule over a point representing a body without needing to tune the energy spectrum could do what you suggest, and again that way a player wouldn't need to tag bodies that they weren't interested in. Obviously bodies then show up in the system map as unexplored.

That's a good idea. Because you aren't using the spectrum analyser at the bottom, maybe it fills in the planets with black orbs in the system map and unexplored in the Nav Panel and of course they would be targetable.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing your suggestions, far from it, and my point above is not to do with how long it takes or how difficult it might be, simply that just cutting out the zoom in on a body, which takes a second or two, doesn't seem that much of an appreciable difference.

Constructive criticism is good and welcome it. The idea about not using the zoom is not about speed, it's about the information you want to find. Some people like Drew don't want all that information and just want targetable bodies to fly to without seeing what they are. That would supply it too them.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Constructive criticism is good and welcome it. The idea about not using the zoom is not about speed, it's about the information you want to find. Some people like Drew don't want all that information and just want targetable bodies to fly to without seeing what they are. That would supply it too them.

Since we're talking about me...

One other thing I'd like is to be able to filter the FSS spectrum by distance. For example, if there's another star at 25,000 Ls away, I'd like to be able to set the FSS range to 20k to 30 kLs so I can see what bodies are orbiting that star. Currently, unless I resolve everything else I have no idea if the HMC showing on the FSS is here or there - and since I'm only using the FSS as a really underpowered System Map and parallaxing all the bodies, I have no way of knowing whether I've 'finished' the primary star or not.

I don't think that would break anybody else's exploration experience and it doesn't affect the core FSS functionality.

 

[Riverside]

I simply cannot conceive how this could work. A stellar body is either known or unknown. It can’t be “kind of known” in an unexplored system. The reason systems in the bubble that you personally had not visited came with “pre-populated” bodies is that these are considered “well known” bodies. If you’ve never been to Sol you’d still know about Saturn, and it would pre-populate your list of stellar bodies, because its existence is “common knowledge”.

How could you possibly expect this where no one has been?

They are in the bubble, they were before 3.3, it can be done again.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Since we're talking about me...

One other thing I'd like is to be able to filter the FSS spectrum by distance. For example, if there's another star at 25,000 Ls away, I'd like to be able to set the FSS range to 20k to 30 kLs so I can see what bodies are orbiting that star. Currently, unless I resolve everything else I have no idea if the HMC showing on the FSS is here or there - and since I'm only using the FSS as a really underpowered System Map and parallaxing all the bodies, I have no way of knowing whether I've 'finished' the primary star or not.

I don't think that would break anybody else's exploration experience and it doesn't affect the core FSS functionality.

I like it. Another good idea.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Except Mining was not so fundamentally changed. It was added to, and operates by different mechanics, different chunks of program code. The additions that were made were not an exclusive set of changes.

[strawman]

That's a circular argument.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

I simply cannot conceive how this could work. A stellar body is either known or unknown. It can’t be “kind of known” in an unexplored system. The reason systems in the bubble that you personally had not visited came with “pre-populated” bodies is that these are considered “well known” bodies. If you’ve never been to Sol you’d still know about Saturn, and it would pre-populate your list of stellar bodies, because its existence is “common knowledge”.

How could you possibly expect this where no one has been?

Not sure why you can't conceive of this - it's how the game worked for 4 years prior to the FSS.

The ADS detected bodies but didn't tell you what they were - Unknown - the most common word on the explorer's UI since the game started.