Could Frontier please demonstrate how to use the FSS enjoyably?

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Now that we're at the end.. have you guys actually tried using the fss on preexplored unexplored systems in the bubble?

While pointless, its also one of the most elegant modes of usage.. because your ship does the panning and jump in and out of it for targeted use.

Another way to do this is to say be flying somewhere, and are looking for signal sources on your path.

Having this actually would remove the prime design defect of the fss, the stupid panning. Should have thought about this during beta

In the Bubble I just ignore the FSS completely and fly around using the 30 Ls auto-resolve. Much more fun.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

Now that we're at the end.. have you guys actually tried using the fss on preexplored unexplored systems in the bubble?

While pointless, its also one of the most elegant modes of usage.. because your ship does the panning and jump in and out of it for targeted use.

Another way to do this is to say be flying somewhere, and are looking for signal sources on your path.

Having this actually would remove the prime design defect of the fss, the stupid panning. Should have thought about this during beta

This is pretty much how I envisaged fitting the FSS into my exploration methods.
As an upgrade on the old DSS, the FSS works, but only when you have selectable targets to fly to.

This would be so obvious to everyone if the Analysis Mode view of space in SC was the FSS visualization.
After all, the blobs are just alternate renderings of planets in the same relative positions in the system.
And put the tune/zoom function in the cockpit and available on the move.
The zoomed view would operate much like an FPS sniper sight.

As an integral part of flying around the system, exploring it, popping in and out of the FSS when you want to resolve a target, it'd be a pretty good body scanning tool.

 

[Witcher 7]

FSS is not intuitive but once I grasp how to distinguish between bodies and USS frequencies or waves, I can fully scan an unexplored system faster than ADS. Prior to FSS, I will not SC to a body > 9,999ls away even though it's a HMC or higher value.

I believe FSS can be improved to filter on body and/or USS scan. Perhaps this will make it easier for others who dislike it.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

This is pretty much how I envisaged fitting the FSS into my exploration methods.
As an upgrade on the old DSS, the FSS works, but only when you have selectable targets to fly to.

This would be so obvious to everyone if the Analysis Mode view of space in SC was the FSS visualization.
After all, the blobs are just alternate renderings of planets in the same relative positions in the system.
And put the tune/zoom function in the cockpit and available on the move.
The zoomed view would operate much like an FPS sniper sight.

As an integral part of flying around the system, exploring it, popping in and out of the FSS when you want to resolve a target, it'd be a pretty good body scanning tool.

Wow, that's an attractive thought. Imaging flying around to get the blobs, visible in the cockpit, within a generous cone infront of you. From your hotas control the tuning, and kick off a trigger to do the fss god mode from your seat.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

No. It's a way of saying that they are might not constantly be re-inventing the wheel, but use what they have and improve upon it.

They already had the ADS...

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Good thing I don’t need your approval huh? There are also things called “being facetious”, and “intentionally difficult.” both can be a lot of fun.

My approval is irrelevant, you simply made a fallacious statement.

 

[Riverside]

FSS is not intuitive but once I grasp how to distinguish between bodies and USS frequencies or waves, I can fully scan an unexplored system faster than ADS. Prior to FSS, I will not SC to a body > 9,999ls away even though it's a HMC or higher value.

I believe FSS can be improved to filter on body and/or USS scan. Perhaps this will make it easier for others who dislike it.

I've been using the FSS Scanner Screen quite a bit in the bubble, usually while doing passenger missions to tourist destinations - I'll scan the systems I travel through & possibly map anything nearby to the destination for extra BGS points. But because I am able to target the [unexplored] bodies I can fly to a safe position out of the system plane to perform the scan without the main star blocking half the system.

With targetable, [unexplored] bodies the FSS works well and risks & inconvenient positioning can be mitigated, the workflow makes sense.

For USSs generally I don't resolve them in the FSS Scanner Screen, although if I feel I am safe to do so I may zero the throttle once I'm well clear of the entry star and quickly resolve a few. I am always in a hurry to complete the FSS Scanner Screen Sweep, but I am able to assess the risk and make a decision whether to use the FSS or do flybys. It works.

Out in virgin systems the vulnerability of being stationary in supercruise is reduced compared to populated space, but the frustration of which direction to fly and how far to travel before stopping comes to the fore. I regularly find myself having to exit the FSS Scanner Screen to move the ship to another location so I can scan bodies blocked by the star. Having nearby bodies that auto-scan really helps here, because it gives me an idea of the system plane so I can put the ship in a convenient location when I enter the FSS Scanner Screen. I always honk before entering the FSS Scanner Screen, for the FSS Scanner screen to require a honk on entry (if you haven't yet done one that session) is pure waste of time imo. If you log off part way through scanning a system it requires a fresh honk too, which doesn't make much sense to me.

There are a number of design issues with the FSS that having an ADS on board mitigates, and adding extra game rules that disable functionality of either when both are equipped would add needless complexity to an otherwise simple solution (use either or both a circumstances & mood demands, both have strengths & weaknesses). Having the sysmap reveal only black bodies wouldn't matter either way for example, but wouldn't help and still leaves us with the core issue of needlessly removing existing stuff several years too late.

What I am describing is already in the game in pre-tagged or pre-populated systems, and requires minimal investigation because it is just re-inserting well established, mature game rules (how the ADS works).

Then instead of 'we tried to accommodate everyone' FDev can simply say 'it is better for all', which is a win they sorely need imo.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Illuminate us as to your technical knowledge where the Cobra Engine is concerned. You’ve made this claim many times, but have never substantiated it. I say you cannot make this claim, as you possess no technical knowledge regarding the Cobra Engine. Next you’ll tell me how you don’t need to be a mechanic to know how a car works, and insist you can put a Ferrari engine in a Vokswagon, right next to the VW engine and it will work just fine, with no knowledge of mechanics or engineering.

That all said, Adam has given you an Official Not Going to Happen, so it’s time to pick a new battle.

For gods sake, the ADS was already there!

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Ok, this thread will turn into a sanatorium for special cases then. Guess after that lecture I'll never forget the words "doesn't need to" anymore. I can't count all the cases where this would apply: module slots doesn't need to, weight doesn't need to, physics doesn't need or flight assist doesn't need to and so on. For both: doesn't need to exist and doesn't need to be removed. Now please someone stop me to enhance these musings to real world issues, especially the 'argument' we had this from day one. We always had pollution, so why bother and removing it... or slavery.. for instance. Again: common sense isn't strong with these assertions. But feel free to turn in circles until kingdom comes, just hope you somehow can enjoy this catatonic state of stubbornness. That's just beyond my imagination.

Just remember, you are in the sanatorium as well:

 

[Witcher 7]

I've been using the FSS Scanner Screen quite a bit in the bubble, usually while doing passenger missions to tourist destinations - I'll scan the systems I travel through & possibly map anything nearby to the destination for extra BGS points. But because I am able to target the [unexplored] bodies I can fly to a safe position out of the system plane to perform the scan without the main star blocking half the system.

With targetable, [unexplored] bodies the FSS works well and risks & inconvenient positioning can be mitigated, the workflow makes sense.

For USSs generally I don't resolve them in the FSS Scanner Screen, although if I feel I am safe to do so I may zero the throttle once I'm well clear of the entry star and quickly resolve a few. I am always in a hurry to complete the FSS Scanner Screen Sweep, but I am able to assess the risk and make a decision whether to use the FSS or do flybys. It works.

Out in virgin systems the vulnerability of being stationary in supercruise is reduced compared to populated space, but the frustration of which direction to fly and how far to travel before stopping comes to the fore. I regularly find myself having to exit the FSS Scanner Screen to move the ship to another location so I can scan bodies blocked by the star. Having nearby bodies that auto-scan really helps here, because it gives me an idea of the system plane so I can put the ship in a convenient location when I enter the FSS Scanner Screen.

There are a number of design issues with the FSS that having an ADS on board mitigates, and adding extra game rules that disable functionality of either when both are equipped would add needless complexity to an otherwise simple solution (use either or both a circumstances & mood demands, both have strengths & weaknesses). Having the sysmap reveal only black bodies wouldn't matter either way for example, but wouldn't help and still leaves us with the core issue of needlessly removing existing stuff several years too late.

What I am describing is already in the game in pre-tagged or pre-populated systems, and requires minimal investigation because it is just re-inserting well established, mature game rules (how the ADS works).

Then instead of 'we tried to accommodate everyone' FDev can simply say 'it is better for all', which is a win they sorely need imo.

I also don't scan USS as there can be many in systems with Thargoid presence. Afaik, USS don't exist in black systems.

Another good thing about FSS that ADS didn't do is the former auto scans stars when you jump into a system and fully scans the system if there aren't anything else - i.e., you don't even have to honk

 

[Riverside]

I also don't scan USS as there can be many in systems with Thargoid presence. Afaik, USS don't exist in black systems.

Another good thing about FSS that ADS didn't do is the former auto scans stars when you jump into a system and fully scans the system if there aren't anything else - i.e., you don't even have to honk

That and the auto-resolving of nearby bodies are decent QoL updates that would have worked well with either discovery process (ie even if the FSS had not been added and the ADS not removed).

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

That and the auto-resolving of nearby bodies are decent QoL updates that would have worked well with either discovery process (ie even if the FSS had not been added and the ADS not removed).

Auto-resolution is both excellent and stupid.

It makes perfect sense when you're actually exploring, but by virtue of the FSS being fitted to all ships, it also works when you're flying a combat Vulture to a Haz-Res. It should have been a feature of the DSS, not the FSS, since then you'd have to choose to explore that way, rather than having it happen by accident.

 

[Faded Glory]

Auto-resolution is both excellent and stupid.

I'm afraid I dislike the auto scan with a vengeance. Previously when I was exploring, if there was nothing in a system that interested me I would move on without scanning anything, leaving the system essentially unexplored for another player to 'discover'. Now that is not an option.

I would much prefer it if I had the option to decide what I wanted to scan and discover, and not have it done for me. It's easy enough with the FSS to scan stuff without having it do it automatically. Let me look at a system, decide whether I want to interact with it or not, and then use the FSS to scan things.

 

[lenna]

FSS is not intuitive but once I grasp how to distinguish between bodies and USS frequencies or waves, I can fully scan an unexplored system faster than ADS. Prior to FSS, I will not SC to a body > 9,999ls away even though it's a HMC or higher value.

I believe FSS can be improved to filter on body and/or USS scan. Perhaps this will make it easier for others who dislike it.

The problem with the FSS is not regarding intuitiveness, difficulty or speed, it is the fundamental approach that is disliked in the main - as well as various knock on effects due to other related changes. Personally, I have no problem understanding how to use the FSS.

As far as I am concerned the FSS is a barrier to the gameplay I am interested in and has no gameplay value in itself - it is pure grind.

 

[Witcher 7]

The problem with the FSS is not regarding intuitiveness, difficulty or speed, it is the fundamental approach that is disliked in the main - as well as various knock on effects due to other related changes. Personally, I have no problem understanding how to use the FSS.

As far as I am concerned the FSS is a barrier to the gameplay I am interested in and has no gameplay value in itself - it is pure grind.

I believe FSS replaced ADS's more mundane approach of discovering bodies in a system in a faster manner. So I don't quite understand why you think it's pure grind or no gameplay value when ADS required more time to complete a full system scan ... unless you find no gameplay value in discovering unexplored bodies in systems?

I see FSS somewhat like the astrometrics lab on Star Trek Voyager where Seven of Nine spends most of her time

 

[lenna]

I believe FSS replaced ADS's more mundane approach of discovering bodies in a system in a faster manner.

The ADS "honk" was not the whole part of the discovery process and that is the entire point, it was merely the trigger that started the process of exploring a system and was not the process in itself.

I much prefer the ADS/DSS flyby approach to exploration than the blob-hunt grind.

The fundamental axis of disagreement here is regarding the value of "mapping" a system versus the value of "scanning a system". The FSS combines the two and in the process creates an arguably unnecessary grind wall while the ADS simply mapped the system leaving the explorer to select (via various criteria) what to scan. The scanning part took longer and is what pre-3.3 was required for "discovery".

As has been said many a time, there is no legitimacy to the argument that the two systems are fundamentally mutually exclusive.

 

[Witcher 7]

I much prefer the ADS/DSS flyby approach to exploration than the blob-hunt grind.

The fundamental axis of disagreement here is regarding the value of "mapping" a system versus the value of "scanning a system". The FSS combines the two and in the process creates an arguably unnecessary grind wall while the ADS simply mapped the system leaving the explorer to select (via various criteria) what to scan. The scanning part took longer and is what pre-3.3 was required for "discovery".

As has been said many a time, there is no legitimacy to the argument that the two systems are fundamentally mutually exclusive.

Whilst ADS scan and maps same time, you had to SC to each body to complete the process. Separating FSS from DSS simplified and accelerated the scanning process but not mapping which I believe gives us the option to scan an entire system without mapping. Plus this opened up the new feature for CMDRs to be named first to map a body.

 

[dxm55]

You mean the DSS?
That's throwing rocks at a melon.

But at least it's a fun throw. DSS works nicely now, at the very least.

I can use gravity to sling probes to the other side of the planet, negating the stupid need to waste time flying around to the other side in a gravity-slowed SC.

Imagine what if we couldn't grav-sling those probes. It would be so grindy just to map a planet.
It would be a waste of time circling the bloody melon.

In this aspect, good job FDev.

 

[Courier 6]

Watching YouTube while exploring? Does that count as an answer lol

And I use the term exploring loosely. What I mean is road to riches.

 

[WR3ND]

The enjoyable part is when you're done with it and can look at the system map and actually see what's in it. I don't bother 99+ percent of the time though. Has made my trek out to Beagle Point in a Vulture rather... "interesting."

I explore interstellar space more then stellar systems now, finding my way around from jump to jump. Not too bad in its own right. Would probably drive me nuts if I could just plot wherever I wanted to straightaway in a further reaching ship though. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...-to-beagle-point-for-35ly-jump-ranges.514888/