Could Frontier please demonstrate how to use the FSS enjoyably?

[IamMe]

Hello Commanders,

I wanted to drop in and let you that we have been reading your comments and are aware how some of you feel about the FSS.

When first designing the FSS, we wanted to ensure that it was engaging for as many different player types as possible, but also understood that it would not be possible to design a system that would work for everyone. Before the FSS was implemented, we also collected feedback from discussions on the forum and the beta.

Today, in its current iteration, we’re happy with how the FSS operates and feel that reinstating the ADS would be detrimental to the experience of exploration as it is now.

At the current time, we won’t be making changes to the core of the FSS. While we understand that this may be disappointing for some of you, we would like to thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and feedback with us.

How about making FSS part of the ships UI instead of floating in space with big screen in front of you?
It supposed to be first person space ship game where you manage ingame mehanics from cockpit not some OBE (out of body experience), it's 2019 and popup screen minigames are not in trend anymore!

 

[cheesenbiscuits]

How about making FSS part of the ships UI instead of floating in space with big screen in front of you?
It supposed to be first person space ship game where you manage ingame mehanics from cockpit not some OBE (out of body experience), it's 2019 and popup screen minigames are not in trend anymore!

Unless of course at some point in the future we have to walk to a viewer(like what Spock does)to use the FSS.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Unless of course at some point in the future we have to walk to a viewer(like what Spock does)to use the FSS.

That'll be problematic for anyone who doesn't buy the spacelegs DLC

 

[Stealthie]

lol - just look at any of Will's DW2 streams, he was there scanning & jumping happily. Maybe the OP should make a video showing himself having a miserable time, and we can check his technique

Honestly, I suspect the main qualification for any FDev "public-facing" job is the ability to look like you're happy regardless of what you're doing in-game.

Personally, I'd prefer a bit more honesty and a bit more bias toward the players' experience from people who're supposed to be in community liason positions.
I'd like to see people like Will noting bugs and commenting on things they find tedious or unintuitive, asking about those things on behalf of the players and then reporting back with the responses they get.

Thing is, ED is fundamentally an incredible game and we all love it so I don't think it'd damage the game if FDev rep's were willing to voice criticisms of things that they don't like or flat-out don't work properly.

I'd prefer that but I don't expect it and I'm realistic enough to know that's not how businesses operate.

 

[Sylow]

Honestly, I suspect the main qualification for any FDev "public-facing" job is the ability to look like you're happy regardless of what you're doing in-game.

That might be true. At the same time i dare to say that those streams more often than not showed Will and others to be of "medium at best" qualification on the game. There's plenty of vaguely or not known things, plenty of routines any really active player does much better than them, etc. Which is oki, their job is to build and promote the game, not to play it.

But based on this you can see that a rather casual player can get a grip on the FSS and make reasonably good use of it. (We could make a list of things for him to be more efficient. But that's not the point. )

 

[Stealthie]

That might be true. At the same time i dare to say that those streams more often than not showed Will and others to be of "medium at best" qualification on the game. There's plenty of vaguely or not known things, plenty of routines any really active player does much better than them, etc. Which is oki, their job is to build and promote the game, not to play it.

Kind of a different topic but I've been saying for years that FDev should revise their set-up slightly by having their own "Pilot-Stig" to fly the ships so that the presenters could concentrate on interviewing guests and discussing the stuff their pilot is demonstrating in-game.

Main point is, however, that I doubt many people consider FDev's "Community Managers" as much more than a mouthpiece for FDev's publicity department.
It'd be nice to see that evolve so they became actual liasons, responsible for advocating on behalf of the players to the company as well as vice-versa.

I noticed a little while ago, for example, that somebody was flying a Mamba in one of the live-streams.
They switched to the external camera and the landing-gear was still showing as deployed.
If a million people have watched that video, that's probably nearly a million people who're wondering why this hasn't been fixed yet.
It might've been nice if, on behalf of those million people, Will had asked Adam W about it.

 

[Riverside]

"Pilot-Stig"

That role is fulfilled by ambassadors (streamers).

 

[IndigoWyrd]

While I do not recall which series or episode this was addressed in, nearly verbatim, this was addressed quite excellently in Star Trek, when this exact issue was brought up - why does Star Fleet send out ships full of people when they could just send out fleets of probes? The answer is The Human Experience.

It's taken me a while to happen upon this little nugget. It is from Star Trek: Voyager, Season 6, Episode 8: One Small Step. Captain Janeway was speaking to Seven of Nine, regarding a Graviton Ellipse they wanted to investigate and said:

"I can't argue with that. If scientific knowledge was all we were after, then the Federation would have built a fleet of probes, not starships. Exploration is about seeing things with your own eyes."

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

"I can't argue with that. If scientific knowledge was all we were after, then the Federation would have built a fleet of probes, not starships. Exploration is about seeing things with your own eyes."

That's exactly it. In our digital computer screen pretend, a not detailed pretend computer screen experience, looking at a hazy image surrounded by blue doesn't work, where looking at a live rendering based on your approach surrounded by the star field does.

That quote also hammers home stupid the idea of "playing" the system map is. Its a map.. there's nothing there except what it is and its heading (once you select it).

Its still shocking how some individuals in the past could with vitriol argue that exploration is contained in the map, and frontier actually bought it. They didn't have the experience or preference either way, obviously.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

That's exactly it. In our digital computer screen pretend, a not detailed pretend computer screen experience, looking at a hazy image surrounded by blue doesn't work, where looking at a live rendering based on your approach surrounded by the star field does.

That quote also hammers home stupid the idea of "playing" the system map is. Its a map.. there's nothing there except what it is and its heading (once you select it).

Its still shocking how some individuals in the past could with vitriol argue that exploration is contained in the map, and frontier actually bought it. They didn't have the experience or preference either way, obviously.

Really not sure which side of the fence you're on here, and not looking to pick at old wounds either, though I will be quick to point out that a visual sighting of pretty much any anomaly in Star Trek is followed almost immediately by orders to "scan it.", "launch a probe", or some other interaction with the technology of the ship - and point out that most encounters with an anomaly usually being with "Captain, I'm getting some unusual sensor readings..." right before the order "On Screen" is given.

So while I do agree with Janeway completely, I also have to point out that "eyes alone" are not enough to gather knowledge.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Really not sure which side of the fence you're on here, and not looking to pick at old wounds either, though I will be quick to point out that a visual sighting of pretty much any anomaly in Star Trek is followed almost immediately by orders to "scan it.", "launch a probe", or some other interaction with the technology of the ship - and point out that most encounters with an anomaly usually being with "Captain, I'm getting some unusual sensor readings..." right before the order "On Screen" is given.

So while I do agree with Janeway completely, I also have to point out that "eyes alone" are not enough to gather knowledge.

If only using the fuss was that deterministic. The tv scenario you describe sounds great. We have a honk, some tick reading (which is workable), but then there's completely random panning involved, 100% trial and error and random sampling of objects in proximity, before we can see the intention through.

The fact that the fuss knows enough to detail the arrows means it knows where the objects are anyway, its just not telling so we can fidget around a bit.

The old system was a much better approximation deciding discovering and engaging. Find what you want, decide you want to scan it, fly over and do your business.

Sides don't matter at this point. Its more just making ourselves feel better As its been from weeks before the beta even launched.. but that's another bone.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

If only using the fuss was that deterministic. The tv scenario you describe sounds great. We have a honk, some tick reading (which is workable), but then there's completely random panning involved, 100% trial and error and random sampling of objects in proximity, before we can see the intention through.

Nothing random about the panning.

The fact that the fuss knows enough to detail the arrows means it knows where the objects are anyway, its just not telling so we can fidget around a bit.

It is a game that requires gameplay. It doesn't tell you, so you can find them yourself instead of doing it for you. The same reason why we pilot our ships. The AI in the game can do it for us and even do combat, but we do it ourselves so there is gameplay. It's not a difficult concept to work out.

The old system was a much better approximation deciding discovering and engaging. Find what you want, decide you want to scan it, fly over and do your business.

Or you can have it the old way which provided zero gameplay in discovering every object in the system.

Sides don't matter at this point. Its more just making ourselves feel better As its been from weeks before the beta even launched.. but that's another bone.

Only you can make yourself feel better.

 

[Vetinari]

If only using the fuss was that deterministic. The tv scenario you describe sounds great. We have a honk, some tick reading (which is workable), but then there's completely random panning involved, 100% trial and error and random sampling of objects in proximity, before we can see the intention through.

The old system was a much better approximation deciding discovering and engaging. Find what you want, decide you want to scan it, fly over and do your business.

Don't use it then? Do the honk which gives you exactly the same information as the old ADS. Ignore FSS & then look at System Map and fly to the planet you're interested in? Where's the issue, nothing about the FSS stops you doing that, in fact you don't even have to honk, you can just fly around and find stuff by sight or whatever.

Am I missing something, what is the actual problem?

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Don't use it then? Do the honk which gives you exactly the same information as the old ADS. Ignore FSS & then look at System Map and fly to the planet you're interested in? Where's the issue, nothing about the FSS stops you doing that, in fact you don't even have to honk, you can just fly around and find stuff by sight or whatever.

Am I missing something, what is the actual problem?

Only if it in a previously disovered system can you do that. If it is a virgin system, then nothing shows up in the system map and Nav panel.

 

[Sunyavadin]

Don't use it then? Do the honk which gives you exactly the same information as the old ADS. Ignore FSS & then look at System Map and fly to the planet you're interested in? Where's the issue, nothing about the FSS stops you doing that, in fact you don't even have to honk, you can just fly around and find stuff by sight or whatever.

Am I missing something, what is the actual problem?

Guessing you only play in the bubble.

The honk does not populate the navpanel or system map in systems outside of the bubble. One of the compromises repeatedly asked for during the FSS beta was for the honk to populate the navpanel with unknown bodies that players could target and move to in order to scan, since the locations are already known to the FSS from the honk.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Don't use it then? Do the honk which gives you exactly the same information as the old ADS. Ignore FSS & then look at System Map and fly to the planet you're interested in? Where's the issue, nothing about the FSS stops you doing that, in fact you don't even have to honk, you can just fly around and find stuff by sight or whatever.

Am I missing something, what is the actual problem?

Yeah sadly you'll only notice the problems.. when you go exploring proper.

 

[Darkfyre99]

The honk does not populate the navpanel or system map in systems outside of the bubble. One of the compromises repeatedly asked for during the FSS beta was for the honk to populate the navpanel with unknown bodies that players could target and move to in order to scan, since the locations are already known to the FSS from the honk.

Which would have me Buckyballing it Back to the Bubble after nearly ten months exploring (including all of the 3.3 beta). I already skip "pre-explored" systems, because for me, they joy is in the seeking, not the finding. I have navigation data, then the object has already been found by someone, who is not me.

I have no problem an optional module that would provide that kind of functionality, but the main reason I like the FSS is that it requires human interaction in order to get any information from it. It won't provide unwanted information while you're discovering the information you want. You won't spoil the rest of the system while getting information about one of its bodies.

That lets me use a wide variety of techniques to explore a system. I can explore it solely via parallax. I can gather additional information about a body by analysing sensor readings on the FSS. Or I can even play the proverbial "mini-game." Usually I use a combination of all three: analysing the sensor readings to locate anything out of the ordinary, and then using parallax to discover the less interesting bodies along the way, and finally then cleaning up the outer system's iceballs via the "minigame." The FSS is exactly what I'd want out of the entry level exploration sensor suite.

Could the FSS be improved? Certainly. First and foremost we should be able to use it on the move. Second, the orbit line bug in VR is still there. Third we should be able to access all the information about a body in the cockpit, without having to enter the system map. And I certainly wouldn't say "no" to new tools in the explorer's tool-kit, even if I probably wouldn't use them.

 

[CMDR John Luke Paperbone]

I have only one problem with the FSS, it's the bug that sometimes "warps" the view and forces you to exit and come back to it.

Apart from that i can't understand all the criticism. Once you performed the initial scan you even have an idea of what kind of bodies the system you are in are made of. So you can decide beforheand if you want to stop the scan, do a full system scan, or simply search the planets you're interested in.

I find it well made, i think you just have to think well about how to map all the keybindings you need to use it, and once you've done it and are accustomed to them it becomes easy to use while feeling belieavable, realistic, to the user ( me at last ).

The surface scan with it's probes is really nice too.

 

[The Nephilim]

I have only one problem with the FSS, it's the bug that sometimes "warps" the view and forces you to exit and come back to it.

Apart from that i can't understand all the criticism. Once you performed the initial scan you even have an idea of what kind of bodies the system you are in are made of. So you can decide beforheand if you want to stop the scan, do a full system scan, or simply search the planets you're interested in.

I find it well made, i think you just have to think well about how to map all the keybindings you need to use it, and once you've done it and are accustomed to them it becomes easy to use while feeling belieavable, realistic, to the user ( me at last ).

The surface scan with it's probes is really nice too.

If the current version was the default and it was changed to how it was previously there'd be an absolute Hue and Cry on here.

I love the FSS.

 

[HAMM3R]

Only thing in the FSS that irks the living crap out of me is the 'Locations' scan when you zoom in on a body. How many locations the body has is irrelevant at that point. I'd rather it just showed if there are geo/bio locations present and be done with it. The probing can then reveal the actual amount.
I don't know if it just my computer but it can take 20+ seconds for the scan to finish if the body has like 37 locations on it. And in a system with 40 bodies that is quite a bit of time staring at the little scan animation.

Also, if the FSS can tell how many locations there are on the body, wouldn't that imply it already knows where the individual signals are coming from in order to separate them?