Could Frontier please demonstrate how to use the FSS enjoyably?

[Sysmon]

Overall the problem with the 3.3 exploration change are the overall implementation and the attempt to satisfy the super-cruise-is-boring and anti-honk crowds without thinking things through properly. It is half-baked and poorly considered on many counts.

As for the sampling aspect, that is nominally used to confirm details and you should know that. As I said, distance scans may play a part but without sampling or detailed exploring you will never know for certain. Remote observation tools are only useful to a point.

First part I disagree on. FD put a lot of thought into the FSS, and it is a good first implementation of exploration tools we were discussing in the design decision days. What we got was the honk, which is not even quarter-baked. I don't think the FSS is supposed to alleviate supercruise boredom either, as we can't really go anywhere while using it. Supercruising will always be a matter of going from A to B, and anything added will be a distraction from that. The question is then what kind of distractions we tolerate: FSS usage is one, as are the System Map, Galactic Map and Codex. On-board spacelegs may be another distraction from going from A to B. Any of these will have proponents and opponents, depending on implementation and individual taste.

We agree on the second part, and I hope some day FD will add the second part of the exploration chain; the sampling of atmosphere and planet surfaces. I have asked for that basically since we started out (if not frequently nor strongly).

S

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Except space golf is one of those things that should NEVER have been implemented in ED - the whole design philosophy behind the 3.3 exploration changes is childish and flawed. The problem is more with the execution/implementation than the intent though.

I was only talking about the RL analogy not the DSS.

 

[lenna]

Aaaand we are back to the concept-mixing.

Not in the slightest, claiming what you are is blatant trolling.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

More than enough for what? That is still 80% uncounted for, and the 20% could have been scanned by one or a few prolific CMDRs, rendering the use of this statistic even less valid when considering a perceived decline in exploration.

If the addition of new scanned systems to a database is declining it could simply be that there is less low-hanging fruit now. People, probably the majority, that go exploring may be doing so to see the sights that already have been discovered and mapped. Thereby adding nothing new. But they still see stuff!

S

Funnily enough, I already mentioned this, but was removed in the reply to me as he obviously had no answers.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Not in the slightest, claiming what you are is blatant trolling.

How is he trolling? Oh, and he is correct.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

How is he trolling? Oh, and he is correct.

The problem with your question is marred by your agreement with the 'stated offending' post... I can't see past that!

 

[Sunyavadin]

Yes, it could probably be fully automated so we just got a Nav Panel log of observed bodies. Then again, flying the ships could be automated too

And we already got an optional module which does the latter, why not one which does the former?

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

Guys and Guyetts.
STOP THE ARGUMENT FOR A SECOND
What if...
The New Era brings the Galactic map into the FSS, as a second page?
Rather than open the map like you did with the old ADS and still do with the GalMap, (because the great galactic Honk has already been done for all 400 billion stars...whaich is reasonable) you hit the Gal page on the FSS and selected Star classes (perhaps a slider, or maybe tick boxes as we have now) and selected a distance from a slider down the side then zoomed in on any signal you choose (from those that fit the selection) as a destination star! Eh!
That would put more gameplay into the jump honk many have come to realise was missing from their game before the intro of the FSS, just think no more jump honk, but realtime active space travel, where you can actually feel like you'r doing something... even to the point of pointing your ship at a star and entering the FSS...there it is select and go!

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

The problem with your question is marred by your agreement with the 'stated offending' post... I can't see past that!

So what if I agree. I would still like to know why it's trolling.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

So what if I agree. I would still like to know why it's trolling.

Because you should have made the statement that he isn't because you agree, the question is just opening up a retort... You just want to bandy words...
read my more recent post just above... much more interesting

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Because you should have made the statement that he isn't because you agree, the question is just opening up a retort... You just want to bandy words...
read my more recent post just above... much more interesting

Riggghhhhht. If you say so.

As to your idea. It sounds interesting, but I would have to see it in action.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

Riggghhhhht. If you say so.

As to your idea. It sounds interesting, but I would have to see it in action.

I'll make it for you... ahh second thoughts, best leave it to the guvnors

 

[Darkfyre99]

I have to admit, Darkfyre99's post about how he makes the FSS more enjoyable for himself is more on-thread than statistics are. Those are some interesting insights there, but there's a catch: you're basically deviating from the typical usage scenario it was designed for. In other words, you have to bend the tools you are given quite well in order to still have fun with it. Let's not forget that you're not someone who explores a lot (say, 10+ hours a week), and you've already reached this stage. Plus you also have to rely on the new auto-scanner somewhat... but at least it's there as an alternative. (There is a good reason for it, mind you: without a proximity scan, you could land at a POI and have the game not know it's there.)

Just to clarify, I haven't "already reached this stage." I started at this stage while I watched the introductory livestream and realized how much potential the FSS had beyond the proverbial "minigame", spent the month or so between the livestream and the beta creating hypothesis about the kind of rare orbital phenomenon I was most interested in, went through a testing phase where I'd FSS everything during the beta to make sure my hypothesis were correct, and have stayed there ever since.

Which is pretty much standard for me with video games in general, and sandboxes in particular. In my experience, "typical usage scenarios" may be the easiest path to take, but rarely most efficient nor the most fun.

Oh, there is one part I'd like to specifically comment on:

They also require the least effort to identify: a large number of bodies + many signals at the gas giant end of the spectrum = a system worth sticking around for.

Note that plenty of the most interesting, or certainly the rare, systems that the Stellar Forge has produced would fail these criteria.

Again to clarify, now that I'm no longer rushed for time, trying to complete Distant World's 2 before the deadline, I don't have to cherry pick systems to explore, and can stop and smell the proverbial roses. My plans are to return to the Bubble by the time the "New Era" begins at the end of(?) 2020 via Colonia. Heck, when traveling to distant stars, I spend that time in the galaxy map to check if there's any out of the ordinary systems along my flight path.

Did I miss some interesting things on the way there? I know I did, because there were some worlds I was tempted to land upon but didn't because I had to either maintain my pace or more often play "catch up" thanks to real life needs taking precedent. That's why I planned for an 18 month long return trip from Beagle Point.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Huh! Well then, I learned something new! That surprises me to be honest, considering that the honk reveals the existence of planets but doesn't populate the contact list with them (as undiscovered) until you do the zoom / focus maneuver or DSS flyby maneuver.

ps - nobody has answered my original question about whether or not you need to find undiscovered systems in order to enjoy them.

It really depends upon the player. I, personally, don't enjoy systems that have been previously explored post-3.3 not because they've been previously explored, but because the auto-reveal introduced in 3.3 removes all the mystery in exploring that system in the first place. It's like trying to watch a movie, and five minutes into it, someone sitting behind you says, "Hey! That girl there? She's really the big bad of the movie!"

I actually don't mind cherry picked systems, because there's still a lot of stuff to discover in those systems, and the nature of the cherry picking can actually reveal something about whoever visited the system before me.

Pretty sure they only exist as a hypothetical strawman. I don't know if anyone wants the ADS back, much less replacing the FSS, just to have some of its functionality added back in some manner which would build on the current exploration mechanics.

As long as that functionality is added back in as an optional module, I have no problem with that. I've always considered the FSS to be an entry-level multi-scanner, and I very much would like to see more exploration tools to choose from, even if they're the type of tool I may not use. I think it's a crime that even the Hauler has enough spare slots these days to equip a full planetary exploration kit, plus an AMFU. That just ain't right...

 

[lenna]

It really depends upon the player. I, personally, don't enjoy systems that have been previously explored post-3.3 not because they've been previously explored, but because the auto-reveal introduced in 3.3 removes all the mystery in exploring that system in the first place.

I have to disagree - the auto reveal of explored systems does not remove all the mystery any more than the initial pre-3.3 ADS honk did.

 

[Old Duck]

Well since everybody else gets to say the same thing over and over and over again for months on end, I guess it's my turn:

As a serious explorer, I personally love the FSS and related tools. When I drop out of hyperspace, I’m entering an entirely new and potentially undiscovered solar system. I mean, wow! Once I refuel my ship, I put a little distance between me and the star, then I “park” the ship, pop out of my pilot’s chair and go over to my science station (cue slide of Mr. Spock looking into his scanner). This is a seamless transition, like getting into my SRV.

This “science station” is the output of a visual, radio, and gravimetric telescope array built into my ship’s sensors. It sees 3D space around my ship, with the ability to zoom in and focus on specific objects in the solar system. In order to automatically focus in on a specific object (focusing over long distances is no trivial task), I need to match the frequency of the telescope’s focal algorithm to that of the planet or signal – the “tuning the dial” part of the procedure. This lets me zoom in and focus both optically and radiometricly to both “see” the planet and generate detailed statistics. Like Galileo, once I “discover” a planet using my telescope, I get credit for that discovery, assuming I’m the first.

Speaking of discovery, I really like that the system map remains unpopulated until I actually find, magnify, and catalog a planet. I was never a fan of the “Google Galaxy” map view we automatically were given with the ADS. That’s not discovery, that’s tourism.

Now I can continue to scan the entire system from this parked location, or I can choose to immediately go to a planet of interest and map it. One of the advantages of the latter is that my ship will automatically detect and catalog any planets nearby. So for example, if I select a gas giant with a dozen moons, I just need to scan the GG in the FSS, and then fly to the GG and the moons will be all scanned and cataloged using the close-range sensors, thus greatly reducing my time using the FSS. Not mandatory, but it’s a cool little trick for CMDRs who like having a reason to fly to planets to explore them.

I personally find the FSS very similar to real-life stargazing. I scan the sky IRL with my high-powered binoculars, finding planets and stars of interest, then crosscheck them using my astronomical software, which gives me a page of statistics. Then I can go visit them in my SUV….. Wait, forget that last part.

It is possible to be very fast and efficient using the FSS with practice. That said, I actually enjoy the extra time it takes me to scan and catalog a system, followed by mapping and even landing on planets of interest. It adds a sense of immersion, accomplishment, depth, and scale that was sorely lacking before 3.3 dropped.

That’s not to say I find the FSS and DSS to be perfect. I have a list of very minor changes and adjustments I’d like made to the FSS, DSS, and Analysis HUD. But I find the concepts Frontier implemented to be fun, engaging, immersive, brilliant!​

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

I have to disagree - the auto reveal of explored systems does not remove all the mystery any more than the initial pre-3.3 ADS honk did.

What exactly was the pre 3.3 ADS honk?
As far as I recall I had the ADS fitted and I honked... then I wen to the system map.
Are you all saying that the ADS is the Full system map, because you
:Honk... Same as in ADS
:do jumping over hurdles... FSS stuff
:look and the System map... the ADS
in reality all the FSS does in hobbles your access to information gathered in the honk... the same honk as you had before the 3.3 drop.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

in reality all the FSS does in hobbles your access to information gathered in the honk... the same honk as you had before the 3.3 drop.

Exactly this. If you're willing to do a double take with an open mind, have a go at exploring an interesting pre discovered system. This is actually the scenario of having both the ads and the fss available for use.

Giving this scenario a go carelessly last night, was surprised at how much joy having both brings

 

[Rat Catcher]

Ignoring the usual arguments of 'ADS should never have been removed', 'FSS stinks' or other equally childish diatribes...

For Marx:
Both my accounts send their data to EDSM, I like the usefulness of the site and give it my support as much as I'm able. The last 3 months both accounts have not been 'out exploring' as in one I'm involved in BGS and staying 'local' - the other is in the bubble involved with a couple of friends who have recently started to play ED.
What I have noticed since starting to play 15 months ago is that the 'explored' region around the bubble is considerably larger now, meaning that where previously some meanderings around the bubble region may have turned up unique (first discovered) data, currently there is a much reduced liklihood of returning such data to EDSM.

My alt will be heading back out to points undiscovered soon, and each new system will be fully scanned and mapped where interesting...

The FSS/DSS, since its introduction, has meant that more fully scanned systems have been sent to EDSM from me as I am able to scan even the 'boring' snowball systems without having to work out a route to encompass all bodies - and as we al know, the chance of finding a jewel in those systems are very low.

Lip service to the title - how could anyone possibly produce something demonstrating enjoyment when such a concept is entriely subjective. Demonstrate to me how to enjoy Brussels Sprouts please...

 

[lenna]

What exactly was the pre 3.3 ADS honk?
As far as I recall I had the ADS fitted and I honked... then I wen to the system map.
Are you all saying that the ADS is the Full system map, because you
:Honk... Same as in ADS
:do jumping over hurdles... FSS stuff
:look and the System map... the ADS
in reality all the FSS does in hobbles your access to information gathered in the honk... the same honk as you had before the 3.3 drop.

As-of 3.3 - in pre-explored systems, you essentially get the same information as you get from the pre-3.3 ADS honk and pre-3.3 the real part of exploration followed on from there (no information of significance, just pictures and locations). The only real difference being that post-3.3 we are denied the option of the pre-3.3 exploration experience in virgin systems due to the FSS grind wall that hands you all that information on a platter - albeit via irritating mechanics.

So yes, in essence the FSS both hobbles access to the basic information that allowed fly-by-exploration and limits player options - but only really in virgin systems.

The fundamental problems with the FSS are not unsolvable, but FD need to be willing to listen but it seems they would rather stick their head in the sand and claim everything is fine when it obviously is not.