Could or should Frontier enhance the FSS or add in and incorporate an optional ADS-like expansion module?

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

You can recognise such things as Earth-Like Worlds and Green Gas Giants without scanning lots of blue blobs.


I've got nothing specifically against that. It's a good solution.

However, it's a good solution only if GGGs are the only sorts of planets that you are looking for. At the moment, they probably are but that isn't necessarily going to remain true. Perhaps fleet carriers require us to scoop gas giants by flying through their clouds. Suddenly GG with life will become great places to visit. Or maybe we find a use for icy bodies with pink streaks.

At the moment I honk while I am fuel scooping and then flash over to the system map to see if there's about the right number of bodies in it. If it looked the same whether it was previously discovered on not, I'd have to look in the individual tags. Added to which I like the surprise of not knowing what I am going to find. A populated system map would give the game away.

If you're looking for an icy body with pink streaks you had to approach it to determine that, even back in the ADS days. The System Map doesn't provide that level of detail, so the FSS has actually improved the search for those, since you don't have to fly to them to find them. GGGs were visible on the System Map, which is why people want the visual information back on initial scan.

Carriers will be fueled by mining, according to FDev. GG scooping is likely to come as part of atmospheric landings - so it's potentially years away.

I definitely wouldn't force the System Map population on anyone who doesn't want it. Just make it an optional module and everyone is happy.

 

[Soron Silin]

You can already recognize ELWs in the spectrum more accurately than the visual representation.

What's wrong with spotting Green Gas Giants without scanning lots of blue blobs?

The ADS populated the system map so that explorer could choose which planets to visit and scan. They could choose to only visit ELWs, Green Gas Giants etc. But with the demise of the ADS, the only way to get a visual on a planet is to scan it first. You have to scan the entire system because there's no way to know in advance which blobs hide interesting planets.

While bringing the ADS back as an optional module might be the best solution, it isn't going to happen. So we are discussing ways that the Honk+FSS can be modified to satisfy all (or most) parties.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The ADS populated the system map so that explorer could choose which planets to visit and scan. They could choose to only visit ELWs, Green Gas Giants etc. But with the demise of the ADS, the only way to get a visual on a planet is to scan it first. You have to scan the entire system because there's no way to know in advance which blobs hide interesting planets.

While bringing the ASDA back as an optional module might be the best solution, it isn't going to happen. So we are discussing ways that the Honk+FSS can be modified to satisfy all (or most) parties.

Am I right to say that if you remove the option to select a body in the system map (until you FSSed it), all the visual would tell you is: somewhere there is a GGG in this system Just like it does now with regard to ELWs.

Given that GGG are so rare, an explorer looking for these could still go through a lot of systems in order to find one that has a GGG, after which he'd still have to use the FSS to find it and get it's location.

 

[Faded Glory]

The ADS populated the system map so that explorer could choose which planets to visit and scan. They could choose to only visit ELWs, Green Gas Giants etc. But with the demise of the ADS, the only way to get a visual on a planet is to scan it first. You have to scan the entire system because there's no way to know in advance which blobs hide interesting planets.

You can still choose not to scan the whole system... If you know there's an ELW present in the system from the energy spectrum you can set your tuner to that frequency and ignore all the blobs except that one which will resolve to a circle when you actually find it whereas the others won't.

Not really worth it though as it's so quick to scan everything. I tried it once...

Likewise, if you know at a glance, without having to scan every gas giant in the galaxy that the one you are looking at is 'special', then the issue is solved.

I suspect most people who have an issue with the FSS would have less of one if they knew they were using it to find something because it interested them, and not simply being forced to use the mechanic to find out if something in the system interested them...

 

[Maolagin]

However, it's a good solution only if GGGs are the only sorts of planets that you are looking for. At the moment, they probably are but that isn't necessarily going to remain true. Perhaps fleet carriers require us to scoop gas giants by flying through their clouds. Suddenly GG with life will become great places to visit. Or maybe we find a use for icy bodies with pink streaks.

GG-ABLs and GG-WBLs actually do have their own spots on the FSS spectrum. I wonder if we even actually know that GGGs don't have their own spectral signature. They're so rare, not too many people will have had the chance to check.

 

[Soron Silin]

Am I right to say that if you remove the option to select a body in the system map (until you FSSed it), all the visual would tell you is: somewhere there is a GGG in this system Just like it does now with regard to ELWs.

Given that GGG are so rare, an explorer looking for these could still go through a lot of systems in order to find one that has a GGG, after which he'd still have to use the FSS to find it and get it's location.

Yes, but nobody is suggesting that. Targeting a planet in the system map is one way to selectively FSS just that one. As it stands, there's nothing in the system map and so nothing to target. I would be willing for there to be grey circles and orbit details in there and those could be targeted for FSS either with a new option or by targeting it and turning the ship to face it. But I don't want pictures of the planets in the system map before they've been scanned.

It's still a LOT of gas giants to scan before you find what you're looking for - and popping in and out of the System Map sounds even more dispiriting than panning around in the FSS.

What about an option in the system map to view a telescope image of the planet? It's the same resolution as the system map icon but not centered on the screen. The screen blanks to skybox and the icon appears somewhere on it. It's not designed to be difficult to find -- it's large enough and centered enough -- but that keeps the idea that we don't know precisely where the planet is before we FSS it. The process must be fast enough that you can scan through at about one per second.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Yes, but nobody is suggesting that. Targeting a planet in the system map is one way to selectively FSS just that one. As it stands, there's nothing in the system map and so nothing to target. I would be willing for there to be grey circles and orbit details in there and those could be targeted for FSS either with a new option or by targeting it and turning the ship to face it. But I don't want pictures of the planets in the system map before they've been scanned.

Again. What's so special about the visuals?

 

[Soron Silin]

Again. What's so special about the visuals?

They are the only way to detect Green Gas Giants without using the FSS.

Other interesting things can be detected in various ways. We can put the orbit details in the system map and so detect trojans and binary systems. NSPs, ELWs, WWs and AWs all have their spectrum band, so you can tell they exist somewhere before you scan the first blob. But there is no way to detect GGGs unless you scan every gas giant.

GG-ABLs and GG-WBLs actually do have their own spots on the FSS spectrum. I wonder if we even actually know that GGGs don't have their own spectral signature. They're so rare, not too many people will have had the chance to check.

I doubt they do because as this thread makes clear, GGGs can be WG, GG-WBL, GG-ABL, Class I, Class II or Class III at least.

But there's only one way to find out. Smoke me a kipper; I'll be back for breakfast.

 

[Ezren]

GG-ABLs and GG-WBLs actually do have their own spots on the FSS spectrum. I wonder if we even actually know that GGGs don't have their own spectral signature. They're so rare, not too many people will have had the chance to check.

I went out and scanned one to check it out for a previous thread, but I lost interest in hauling around in space to try and figure something out for people who complained about the FSS not showing GGGs specifically without actually going to test it themselves.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Heres the definition of a troll: "One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument". I think its plainly obvious who those people are.

Hint, the majority of posters here are taking issue with a software feature. The remaining trollish population take issue with those people who take issue with the feature. Clearly there are trolls.

Says the person that calls people white knights just because they have a different opinion

 

[Enderby]

I really really hope FD fix this

 

[marx]

I wonder if we even actually know that GGGs don't have their own spectral signature. They're so rare, not too many people will have had the chance to check.

We do. There are 19 GGGs known (for comparison: EDSM currently has 130 million bodies uploaded, in 45 million systems), most of them have AFAIK been re-checked since the FSS, and none of them have a special signal. (Personally, I checked three or four.) They show up in the same narrow range as their parent type does, so to speak. Frontier did bother to give the GGGs their own Codex entries, but didn't bother to include them on the FSS barcode.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I went out and scanned one to check it out for a previous thread, but I lost interest in hauling around in space to try and figure something out for people who complained about the FSS not showing GGGs specifically without actually going to test it themselves.

What a shame.
You would have made a lot of people happy if you'd been able to prove that GGGs were identifiable on the FSS.
But, since you didn't...

Cool story, bro.

 

[Soron Silin]

I went out and scanned one to check it out for a previous thread, but I lost interest in hauling around in space to try and figure something out for people who complained about the FSS not showing GGGs specifically without actually going to test it themselves.

Well yes, there is that. Sometimes we're all Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz.
"Oh, for heaven's sake, mankind! It's only four [hundred] light years away, you know! I'm sorry, but if you can't be bothered to take an interest in local affairs, that's your own lookout! Energize the demolition beam! God, I don't know! Apathetic [redacted] planet, I've no sympathy at all!"
-- HHGTTG

Exactly where I would expect to find GG-ABW. If there is an offset for Green (or Glowing) it's too small to be of use.

We do. There are 19 GGGs known (for comparison: EDSM currently has 130 million bodies uploaded, in 45 million systems), most of them have AFAIK been re-checked since the FSS, and none of them have a special signal. (Personally, I checked three or four.) They show up in the same narrow range as their parent type does, so to speak. Frontier did bother to give the GGGs their own Codex entries, but didn't bother to include them on the FSS barcode.

So if you scan 1,650,000 systems, you've got a 50:50 chance of finding one, and the vast majority of explorers are somewhere in the low thousands. (Otherwise we'd have explored far more than 45 million systems.) If you scan 10,000 systems, you've got a 0.4% chance of finding a GGG. I can't think it's worth going to any bother at all for those odds. You'd be better off playing the lottery.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

I lean towards the FSS being the appropriate tool when it comes to GGGs.
I think a clear distinction between what the FSS and the ADS actually detect and do would help the argument.

Body type information should therefore be reserved to the FSS.
The ADS should focus on the presence and location of mass, leading to the population of the system map without body type visuals. The good old Black Body map solution.

The hunt for GGGs should be supported by improving the FSS because it is clearly about body type.
Is there any reason everything in the FSS needs to be blue?
Couldn’t the blob colour vary giving some indication of the appearance of the body?
Couldn’t the wavelength dots and arrows indicate more than just body class?

 

[Burke]

If you scan 10,000 systems, you've got a 0.4% chance of finding a GGG. I can't think it's worth going to any bother at all for those odds. You'd be better off playing the lottery.

I used to think of it like a fruit machine. Everytime you jump its spin the reels. The jackpot isnt going to drop in every spin but people still play.

 

[Sysmon]

Personally I like FSS in general. What I don't like is inner workings: you just zoom in/out repeatebly on signals and very fast just to get data checks in. There's literally 0 sense in actually reading about bodies you scan. Some more optional actions during zoom in would be nice to have.

But I agree that exploration needs some kind of re-think. FSS aside, it's just way too much snoozefest currently. There are NO dangers out there, unless you're wasted and just looking to crash into something, but I doubt real galaxy is so safe and friendly place.

Having the zoom-in be optional could actually be a really cool thing!

S

 

[Ezren]

What a shame.
You would have made a lot of people happy if you'd been able to prove that GGGs were identifiable on the FSS.
But, since you didn't...

Cool story, bro.

You are quite satisfied with just complaining about it without worrying if that was true are not, however.

I can see you keep your standards low.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

You are quite satisfied with just complaining about it without worrying if that was true are not, however.

I can see you keep your standards low.

I left it to people better informed than me. I have other issues with the FSS.

 

[Ezren]

I lean towards the FSS being the appropriate tool when it comes to GGGs.
I think a clear distinction between what the FSS and the ADS actually detect and do would help the argument.

Body type information should therefore be reserved to the FSS.
The ADS should focus on the presence and location of mass, leading to the population of the system map without body type visuals. The good old Black Body map solution.

The hunt for GGGs should be supported by improving the FSS because it is clearly about body type.
Is there any reason everything in the FSS needs to be blue?
Couldn’t the blob colour vary giving some indication of the appearance of the body?
Couldn’t the wavelength dots and arrows indicate more than just body class?

So the GGGs, which we've talked to death in this subject because apparently it's the most importantest thing ever because they don't quite fit in the new system conveniently, are anomalous. They seem to match the frequency of their body, not specifically for their exact features, such as color (which, again, is anomalous).

This could be solved with the ability to detect such anomalies, with either an indicator, "Anomaly Signal detected", or a vertical frequency bar on the right or left which would show specific indicators - exceptional mass/high gravity bodies, overlapping orbital signals, abnormal properties, etc. "Neat stuff".

I'm not sure off-hand if other unique bodies, like pink-streaked ice planets and the like have their own categories like a GGG does.