Could or should Frontier enhance the FSS or add in and incorporate an optional ADS-like expansion module?

[Sysmon]

We really are at the cutting edge of ... something here.

We are probably at the edge of figuring out that all we can do in exploration still is to look at static stuff. There's little really to interact with, except stuff that is placed as additions. The planets and moons are pretty, but they are just colourful shells. We need those atmospheres fast!

S

 

[Kaocraft]

I have mixed feelings about which of these would be more viable and better received by players in general, and of course which I would actually prefer.

It's no secret that I'm not fond of being more or less obligated to park my ship in supercruise while out in the black and go into a non-first-person-cockpit camera view to "explore" the cosmos by aligning and dialing in the words instead of having more viable options beyond just the likes of parallax.

I don't want to undermine the FSS and more importantly the game-play of it for those who prefer it, but would definitely like some alternatives to use at my discretion.

I'm wondering what other players, at least on the forums here, think about this in general.

Let me just say to please not discuss other player's opinions here nor their validity. I'd rather this not degrade into another poo flinging match we've seen of late when these sort of topics come up.

Thanks.

PS: Still on my roundabout way to Jaques Station from Beagle Point after DW2. Yeah, I'm a bit of a slacker, but had a lot of family needs come up recently, including a very unfortunate death in our extended family that saw us going out of town for a while. I haven't been intentionally avoiding other players nor the game. Thanks for your understanding.

They should make planet scans with surface sites scan instantly just like every other body. 30-40 seconds per planet is hot garbage and wrecks the entire game. If they can't fix this then yes they should scrap the entire FSS and revert to the way it was before.

 

[Vandaahl]

What does the type of exploring half-way between type A and type B look like?

Ah, that. Sry, was not trying to be thick, but I explained that a couple of times already. If they added dark bodies, that would be enough for me. They can keep the FSS like it is now. I would like to stay away from something new as far as possible, since that would be practically impossible anyway, whatever it would be.

 

[GJ51]

If I'm traveling somewhere I don't even honk. I don't sight-see from the Freeway. When I'm exploring I get out in the wilderness then take the off-ramp. After which I take the slow country roads for a while to see where they lead.

But I bet your not advocating that they take the signs down that tell you there's a Rest Stop ahead...

 

[Maolagin]

We do. There are 19 GGGs known (for comparison: EDSM currently has 130 million bodies uploaded, in 45 million systems), most of them have AFAIK been re-checked since the FSS, and none of them have a special signal. (Personally, I checked three or four.) They show up in the same narrow range as their parent type does, so to speak. Frontier did bother to give the GGGs their own Codex entries, but didn't bother to include them on the FSS barcode.

Well that's a pity. But a belated thanks for taking the time to go and check!

Couldn’t the wavelength dots and arrows indicate more than just body class?

They do. The spacing of the dots is used to indicate presence of rings, and the position of a body's signal within its class' band in the spectrum seems to indicate presence of atmosphere. Some body classes have multiple possible dot patterns and I've not seen anyone explain what that means.

Now I bet 9 out of 10 explorers notice the water world, fss it and move on. Missing out on the most interesting anomaly in the system.

That's not really a great example. Having stopped to resolve the WW, I think many explorers would notice the odd cluster of HMCs while spinning around the ecliptic. Certainly those already predisposed to be on the lookout for unusual orbital configurations. Now if that cluster was around a secondary star, many more would miss it.

I wonder if an easier accessible iteration of the orrery could help the (also) jarring jump between FSS, cockpit view and system map.

Leaving aside changes to the underlying systems, I think it would be a plus to add keybindings that would allow, once an object has been resolved by whatever method, switching between the FSS, System Map, and System Map Orrery views while maintaining focus on that object.

 

[Soron Silin]

But I bet your not advocating that they take the signs down that tell you there's a Rest Stop ahead...

Actually I'm planning on opening that rest stop. That's what I want to do with my carrier.

 

[HAMM3R]

... Plus, I feel if I have been through many systems looking for an oddity ...

A space oddity, perchance?

...

Apologies, I'll see myself out.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

So it sounds like from absence yet conclusion of all mentioned points, everyone in truth is getting undone by the boring mechanic of the fss, and we’d all walk away happy slow or fast if the thing was either fun or at minimum made sense in the spaceship ui.

Without making any sense, it’s so easy to see the fss as nothing but going through the motions tedium that had to be there because all the gameplay related rewards (which no one seems interested in) is magically given.

As it’s implemented, if your brain for one second takes its eyes off the prize and notices what you’re doing/playing it’s senseless and leads to rage.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

A red rash?

The fss is a class c gas giant indeed.

 

[GJ51]

Actually I'm planning on opening that rest stop. That's what I want to do with my carrier.

No shoot!

 

[Sysmon]

So it sounds like from absence yet conclusion of all mentioned points, everyone in truth is getting undone by the boring mechanic of the fss, and we’d all walk away happy slow or fast if the thing was either fun or at minimum made sense in the spaceship ui.

Without making any sense, it’s so easy to see the fss as nothing but going through the motions tedium that had to be there because all the gameplay related rewards (which no one seems interested in) is magically given.

As it’s implemented, if your brain for one second takes its eyes off the prize and notices what you’re doing/playing it’s senseless and leads to rage.

Not quite.

S

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Not quite.

S

If the fss was fun, there would be no justification to complain, at least to my thinking.

 

[Soron Silin]

So it sounds like from absence yet conclusion of all mentioned points, everyone in truth is getting undone by the boring mechanic of the fss, and we’d all walk away happy slow or fast if the thing was either fun or at minimum made sense in the spaceship ui.

Without making any sense, it’s so easy to see the fss as nothing but going through the motions tedium that had to be there because all the gameplay related rewards (which no one seems interested in) is magically given.

As it’s implemented, if your brain for one second takes its eyes off the prize and notices what you’re doing/playing it’s senseless and leads to rage.

As I keep saying. I like the FSS. I enjoy using it and I would be very sad to see it go.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

As I keep saying. I like the FSS. I enjoy using it and I would be very sad to see it go.

Completely removing it is a bit drastic and probably inefficient.

Take existing fss -> delete the blue tinting overlay -> Put the ships canopy graphics back -> Restore ship controls -> Build something like the station services ui but smaller for the adaptive zoom scenarios -> Change the keybind modifiers for the fss to be in the same set as the rest of the ship controls -> Also do it for the dss ->

That's all they would have to do......

Sorry some of us have been thinking about this problem for over a year now

..... makes you want to weep why they didn't do that in the first place. Keep thinking about it and you can get mad if you don't stop yourself.

EDIT: Other games took the common sense approach and got.. basically what makes sense. Its interesting to see how similar yet different elites mechanic is to what's in that video.. and you have to wonder when elite just went off the rails and died. Watch this video for about a minute.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onW160fisG8&feature=youtu.be&t=495

 

[Soron Silin]

Completely removing it is a bit drastic and probably inefficient.

Take existing fss -> delete the blue tinting overlay -> Put the ships canopy graphics back -> Restore ship controls -> Build something like the station services ui but smaller for the adaptive zoom scenarios -> Change the keybind modifiers for the fss to be in the same set as the rest of the ship controls -> Also do it for the dss ->

That's all they would have to do......

Sorry some of us have been thinking about this problem for over a year now

..... makes you want to weep why they didn't do that in the first place. Keep thinking about it and you can get mad if you don't stop yourself.

But I can move the FSS cursor much, much faster than I can move the ship, and that speed matters.

If you want to put the FSS in the canopy, then do the same for the station menu. That's definitely in the cockpit because you can select the side panels.

Plus that doesn't fix any of the issues other people have brought up in this thread.

Here's another solution for your issues that's much, much easier to do:

Have an animation of the pilot seat rotating right about 135 degrees and a holographic display turning on as the FSS comes up. Get rid of the blue tint, it hides the blobs anyway, and make the rear right of the cockpit show through it slightly. Reverse the animation when the FSS closes.

The DSS is a hot mess, but that's another thread.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

But I can move the FSS cursor much, much faster than I can move the ship, and that speed matters.

Have an animation of the pilot seat rotating right about 135 degrees and a holographic display turning on as the FSS comes up. Get rid of the blue tint, it hides the blobs anyway, and make the rear right of the cockpit show through it slightly. Reverse the animation when the FSS closes.

The DSS is a hot mess, but that's another thread.

Faster? But the only reason all the naysayers demand you have to use the fss is because its slower and more work. Now it has to be fast too? Sorry from seriously thing about this, i think the gameplay rewards provided by the fss are so immensely god mod that people would take that increased panning delay and still feel like they're getting a god mode upgrade. You get everything from the almighty fss click.. there's nothing left to the imagination and the rewards are banked. For people who have various chips on their shoulders about spaceflight this would still be just fine.

Id like to suggest the only thing the mouse speed of the current system facilitates is dismissive gameplay.

The dss is also fine if you slow down and don't want to do it as fast and hecticly as possible. You do have to focus on the reward again though because like the fss its a meaningless mechanical motion in the context of elites space.

 

[Soron Silin]

Faster? But the only reason all the naysayers demand you have to use the fss is because its slower and more work. Now it has to be fast too? Sorry from seriously thing about this, i think the gameplay rewards provided by the fss are so immensely god mod that people would take that increased panning delay and still feel like they're getting a god mode upgrade. You get everything from the almighty fss click.. there's nothing left to the imagination and the rewards are banked. For people who have various chips on their shoulders about spaceflight this would still be just fine.

Id like to suggest the only thing the mouse speed of the current system facilitates is dismissive gameplay.

The dss is also fine if you slow down and don't want to do it as fast and hecticly as possible. You do have to focus on the reward again though because like the fss its a meaningless mechanical motion in the context of elites space.

So you are taking a mechanic you don't like and making it worse? You want to spend more time doing something you hate? I can't help thinking that you don't have the right solution there. If you think that the FSS gives too much information, then just take some information out of it. We've said on here that we'd be happy if the count of POIs was removed. You could remove detection of them as well, although you might get arguments.

But to be fair, it doesn't give all information and all rewards. You still need to travel in order to map. If I understand correctly, you didn't need to do that with the ADS and you didn't need to spend as much time as close to the planet in order to scan it. So it's now more work and takes longer than it used to. Which is what you want.

The DSS needs to stop permanently turning planets blue for a start.

Neither the FSS or the DSS are meaningless mechanics. For instance the FSS is a narrow-beam, phased-array radio telescope with a Fourier transform and a coaxial optical telescope with a spectrum analyser. You could build one now, except it might be the size of a few football fields. It makes perfect sense.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

So you are taking a mechanic you don't like and making it worse? You want to spend more time doing something you hate? I can't help thinking that you don't have the right solution there. If you think that the FSS gives too much information, then just take some information out of it. We've said on here that we'd be happy if the count of POIs was removed. You could remove detection of them as well, although you might get arguments.

But to be fair, it doesn't give all information and all rewards. You still need to travel in order to map. If I understand correctly, you didn't need to do that with the ADS and you didn't need to spend as much time as close to the planet in order to scan it. So it's now more work and takes longer than it used to. Which is what you want.

The DSS needs to stop permanently turning planets blue for a start.

Neither the FSS or the DSS are meaningless mechanics. For instance the FSS is a narrow-beam, phased-array radio telescope with a Fourier transform and a coaxial optical telescope with a spectrum analyser. You could build one now, except it might be the size of a few football fields. It makes perfect sense.

Personally I'd find the argument that you still have to fly to planets to map them would carry more weight if it actually resulted in a MAP.

'Mapping' a non-landable planet performs no function other than credits and potentially a tag. There is no additional information gleaned, no meaningful 'state change', so for me it is nothing but a time-sink.

'Mapping' a landable planet without POIs likewise does nothing.

So that leaves us with 'mapping' a landable planet with POIs. The mechanic for locating POIs is simplistic and because it results in exact coordinates, it becomes an exercise in sightseeing. This would be tolerable if you knew in advance what you were going to find, or if there was any meaningful difference between them. However, since they're all cookie-cutter objects to scan and then shoot bits off, I found all motivation disappearing around my fifth planet.

Finally, as always when people try to justify using terrestrial astronomy techniques, I'll point out that we're flying FTL spaceships which can get up close and personal with planets in seconds, so why on earth are we messing around with telescopes when we can simply fly there?

 

[Soron Silin]

Finally, as always when people try to justify using terrestrial astronomy techniques, I'll point out that we're flying FTL spaceships which can get up close and personal with planets in seconds, so why on earth are we messing around with telescopes when we can simply fly there?

Umm... because it's faster? I mean, that was your point, wasn't it?

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Finally, as always when people try to justify using terrestrial astronomy techniques, I'll point out that we're flying FTL spaceships which can get up close and personal with planets in seconds, so why on earth are we messing around with telescopes when we can simply fly there?

Really? Ive never gone as far as buying a telescope myself, but i can't imagine people would just pan around their hemisphere's looking for something interesting. Maybe galileo did, but you have to draw the line somewhere as nothing is steam or wind powered in the spaceships that we know of. Generally speaking don't many people get a tracking mount and just plonk in some coordinates? The telescope itself does the panning. Yeah i know the 80's exists but still.