Could or should Frontier enhance the FSS or add in and incorporate an optional ADS-like expansion module?

[Ziggy Stardust]

So if you scan 1,650,000 systems, you've got a 50:50 chance of finding one, and the vast majority of explorers are somewhere in the low thousands. (Otherwise we'd have explored far more than 45 million systems.) If you scan 10,000 systems, you've got a 0.4% chance of finding a GGG. I can't think it's worth going to any bother at all for those odds. You'd be better off playing the lottery.

That would be true if all you're looking for is GGGs. But GGGs is just an example.

It's just one of the things players are looking for. You find GGGs while traveling to some far away destination for instance. Many explorers are looking for the oddities in the galaxy, of which GGGs is one. For me it's usually system configurations, but my last trip to the core I did find a Pink Gas Giant, which was a first. And nearly none of the odd system configurations in the galaxy can be determined by looking at the spectrum.

edit: credit to Sunyavadin for this example:

Now I bet 9 out of 10 explorers notice the water world, fss it and move on. Missing out on the most interesting anomaly in the system.

The hit ratio for me for odd systems is about 1 in 50 (I can only give a rough estimate since I never counted them out). Before I would plot a route, usually somewhere towards the core of the galaxy, since I most enjoy that part, and it seems that's where the freaky systems have a higher hit ratio. With my T-6's jump range I do about 25 jumps per 1,000 LY. So anywhere around each 2,000 LYs I'll find a system which differs from the run of the mill. Which is about an hour. This is nice, since it breaks up the journey and gets me stuck in the system.

Nowadays, using the FSS, I will have to FSS those 50 systems for my 1 in 50 hit ratio. Which means I could have entire evening sessions with no hits. And that's just no fun for me.

edit: By the way, I do get a giggle out of people telling me the way I played this game for years is fruitless and I'd be better off playing the lottery.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

You are quite satisfied with just complaining about it without worrying if that was true are not, however.

I can see you keep your standards low.

It is true, read Marx's post.

 

[Soron Silin]

It's just one of the things players are looking for. You find GGGs while traveling to some far away destination for instance. Many explorers are looking for the oddities in the galaxy, of which GGGs is one. For me it's usually system configurations, but my last trip to the core I did find a Pink Gas Giant, which was a first. And nearly none of the odd system configurations in the galaxy can be determined by looking at the spectrum.

Nowadays, using the FSS, I will have to FSS those 50 systems for my 1 in 50 hit ratio. Which means I could have entire evening sessions with no hits. And that's just no fun for me.

But most of those things, you would find on a black-body system map. Not all, it's true. You wouldn't get that pink gas giant, or the green ones.

To my mind, it's worth taking the time. If I'm traveling somewhere I don't even honk. I don't sight-see from the Freeway. When I'm exploring I get out in the wilderness then take the off-ramp. After which I take the slow country roads for a while to see where they lead.

To be honest, I'm quite pleased that there are things that I won't notice five seconds after entering a system, because some things are better when you've worked for them.

 

[Sysmon]

But most of those things, you would find on a black-body system map. Not all, it's true. You wouldn't get that pink gas giant, or the green ones.

To my mind, it's worth taking the time. If I'm traveling somewhere I don't even honk. I don't sight-see from the Freeway. When I'm exploring I get out in the wilderness then take the off-ramp. After which I take the slow country roads for a while to see where they lead.

To be honest, I'm quite pleased that there are things that I won't notice five seconds after entering a system, because some things are better when you've worked for them.

I'll have to agree with this one. Ziggy's example is great, but I find that when the orbital oddities have been deduced from working within the FSA, I find it much more satisfying to go to the System Map and verify it compared to just have it plonked directly into the System Map by the original honk. Yes, it is slower, but exploration should not be about speed. Travel is about speed.

S

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

But most of those things, you would find on a black-body system map. Not all, it's true. You wouldn't get that pink gas giant, or the green ones.

To my mind, it's worth taking the time. If I'm traveling somewhere I don't even honk. I don't sight-see from the Freeway. When I'm exploring I get out in the wilderness then take the off-ramp. After which I take the slow country roads for a while to see where they lead.

To be honest, I'm quite pleased that there are things that I won't notice five seconds after entering a system, because some things are better when you've worked for them.

A black body system map would provide the most clues, sure. It would be a huge improvement for me. I'm just a still little puzzled what the downsides of having visuals are.

And it's great to hear you've found a way to enjoy exploration, I do believe there are as many ways as there are explorers. I too have played like that, get to a certain area on the map and explore the hell out of it, 100% system completion, no matter how far the planets were from the entry point.

Plus, I feel if I have been through many systems looking for an oddity, I have worked for that as well. It's just another kind of labour.

Yes, it is slower, but exploration should not be about speed. Travel is about speed.

S

I agree. I can spend hours in a neat system once I found it. Travel is just the means to get to that system.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I'll have to agree with this one. Ziggy's example is great, but I find that when the orbital oddities have been deduced from working within the FSA, I find it much more satisfying to go to the System Map and verify it compared to just have it plonked directly into the System Map by the original honk. Yes, it is slower, but exploration should not be about speed. Travel is about speed.

S

Exploration is about whatever you want ot to be about. If you don't want it to be quick, don't fit the tools that make it quick. It's a shame FDev don't get this, and just listened to the complainers.

 

[Vandaahl]

I'm just a still little puzzled what the downsides of having visuals are.

I don't really see a functional downside as well, only perhaps logically. If you have a device that can show the visual details of a planet up front, it could/should know more details than that. Same reason why I think showing dark bodies just make sense. If you have a device that knows how many planets there are, based on their mass deforming space/time, it should/could know more about the composition of the whole system.

 

[Sysmon]

I agree. I can spend hours in a neat system once I found it. Travel is just the means to get to that system.

I wonder if an easier accessible iteration of the orrery could help the (also) jarring jump between FSS, cockpit view and system map. It could even be an FSA alternative - a fuzzy and monochrome holographic of mass distribution in the system that could be manipulated from the outside (rather than from the internal view within the FSA). Orbital configurations could be deduced easier then.

S

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I just remembered

Nope. Also not gonna post in this one.

Too late! You are already part of it.

Damn you babel!

I hate this forum

I wonder if an easier accessible iteration of the orrery could help the (also) jarring jump between FSS, cockpit view and system map

Yes, that could work. I have wondered the same.

 

[Soron Silin]

Exploration is about whatever you want ot to be about. If you don't want it to be quick, don't fit the tools that make it quick. It's a shame FDev don't get this, and just listened to the complainers.

Right. So the problem is that the FSS is too fast, and too slow.

 

[Sysmon]

Exploration is about whatever you want ot to be about. If you don't want it to be quick, don't fit the tools that make it quick. It's a shame FDev don't get this, and just listened to the complainers.

Or is it! Read, for example, Amundsen's descriptions of his Antarctic conquest (or even that of Scott, if you want a bit more drama) or Nansen's journey to the Arctic on the first Fram expedition. Then tell me how much of those books are dedicated to the travel bit. Hint: Hardly any. Nansen dwells a bit on the preparations, talks a bit about how homesick and seasick he got going up to the ice, then spend the rest of the book(s) on the actual exploration of the big unknown. Amundsen spend a bit of time on justifying his decision to turn south rather than north, then really only marvels a bit about the ease by which the keel-less Fram handles hard seas in the Atlantic. 90+ % of the book happens in Antarctica.

Because exploration for so long has mainly been a spreadsheet population exercise, we don't see much about exploration in GalNet or otherwise: It is really hard to write anything interesting about jump-honk exploration. We have a few more tools now, which should allow for more interesting narrative. Yes, it gets slower that way, but the trade-off is tangible.

In a way, the jump-honk exploration is what has made the galaxy seem so static and dull. The new mechanics may have swung too far to the other side - PoIs are very easy to find and have little variability, and the galaxy is still otherwise rather toothless. So stuff gets found fast and becomes uninteresting fast. So getting rid of the jump-honk mechanic is a first step towards making exploration a better narrative (and therefore more interesting in my view). Now we just need it smoothed out a bit, and get some more stuff to look at as well as more variety in the current stuff.

S

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Right. So the problem is that the FSS is too fast, and too slow.

Yep.
Too fast for some explorers, and too slow for others.
It's almost like we'd be better off with options.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Right. So the problem is that the FSS is too fast, and too slow.

You have pointed out the delicious nature of these threads.
Both the ADS and the FSS are for lazy people. Also known as: people.
Both are also best for dirty money grubbing cherry pickers. Also known as: people.
The ADS and the FSS do the exact same thing, and completely different things.
You started, no you started.

Quantum Mechanics is a breeze compared to this. Hawking would have short circuited reading a few pages of these threads.

We really are at the cutting edge of ... something here.

 

[Vandaahl]

Right. So the problem is that the FSS is too fast, and too slow.

No, not at all. Problem is they went from exploring type A to exploring type B when they build something new, while they could have ended up somewhere in the middle.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Or is it! Read, for example, Amundsen's descriptions of his Antarctic conquest (or even that of Scott, if you want a bit more drama) or Nansen's journey to the Arctic on the first Fram expedition. Then tell me how much of those books are dedicated to the travel bit. Hint: Hardly any. Nansen dwells a bit on the preparations, talks a bit about how homesick and seasick he got going up to the ice, then spend the rest of the book(s) on the actual exploration of the big unknown. Amundsen spend a bit of time on justifying his decision to turn south rather than north, then really only marvels a bit about the ease by which the keel-less Fram handles hard seas in the Atlantic. 90+ % of the book happens in Antarctica.

Because exploration for so long has mainly been a spreadsheet population exercise, we don't see much about exploration in GalNet or otherwise: It is really hard to write anything interesting about jump-honk exploration. We have a few more tools now, which should allow for more interesting narrative. Yes, it gets slower that way, but the trade-off is tangible.

In a way, the jump-honk exploration is what has made the galaxy seem so static and dull. The new mechanics may have swung too far to the other side - PoIs are very easy to find and have little variability, and the galaxy is still otherwise rather toothless. So stuff gets found fast and becomes uninteresting fast. So getting rid of the jump-honk mechanic is a first step towards making exploration a better narrative (and therefore more interesting in my view). Now we just need it smoothed out a bit, and get some more stuff to look at as well as more variety in the current stuff.

S

I enjoyed jump-honk exploration and I enjoyed flying long distances in supercruise to explore planets.

The problem all stems from the fact that FDev decided to nullify the playstyles of a number of explorers. With more flexibility in the tools, players would have been happier to tolerate the lack of exploration content.

 

[Soron Silin]

No, not at all. Problem is they went from exploring type A to exploring type B when they build something new, while they could have ended up somewhere in the middle.

Go on then. What does exploring type C look like to you?

 

[Vandaahl]

Go on then. What does exploring type C look like to you?

??
I never mentioned a C, so knock yourself out

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

A red rash?

 

[Burke]

Now I bet 9 out of 10 explorers notice the water world, fss it and move on. Missing out on the most interesting anomaly in the system.

When i look at that, yes the first thing i take on board is the interesting orbits, but what really interests me is that water world, rings aswell and i hope that moon where i can land is pressed right up against that water world so i can get some pictures. I fly out there and they never are of course but one day (if i hadnt been forced to stop playing by the obfuscation caused by exploration improvements) one day i will get that perfect shot. You have to trawl alot of systems when looking for shots like this, do alot of flying into dead ends aswell. But i used to get my moneys worth out of that gameplay.

 

[Soron Silin]

??
I never mentioned a C, so knock yourself out

What does the type of exploring half-way between type A and type B look like?