Data cleanup efforts throughout the galaxy

[varonica]

Help ? What's the best way to do this - just buy another copy from FDev's website under a different email address, sign up for an FDev account, and then just log in/out as required on the launcher ?

That's how I would do it!

 

[mpfj]

That's how I would do it!

You can even copy the launcher.exe and have two shortcuts, each with its own login.

See this forum post.

 

[Orvidius]

The partner keys from FDev's site are helpful. I have the game installed three times, one through Oculus Home, one in Steam, and one with the ED Launcher. I did that initially all with one account (primarily so that I could log in on patch day with whichever version updated first), and when I got a second "bubble-only" account, I logged the ED Launcher version in with that one. The thing that's a pain is that if you use more than one account with one copy of the game, you have to go through the account verification process each time. By setting aside a local copy for an alternate account, you can avoid that (or use alternate shortcuts as above).

 

[ekir]

Evening, not sure if this is the right location so if it's incorrect please point me to the right place. I've been having discussions with another commander who says that some atmospheric planets are landable. Doing this search on spansh shows over 1,700 planets marked as landable with an atmosphere. From all of FDEVs statements this should not be possible. I checked out a few of them Gru Hypue ND-S d4-22 1 a was visited a week ago and I'm set to upload my logs to edsm through ED Discovery on my pc account and through the Frontier API on my xbox account.

Nothing has changed, the data in the databases still show it as a landable body. Is there anything else that I need to do to cleanup this data?

checked another system today.

Are there landable planets with atmospheres? If not, would it be possible to remove the landable flag from these 1700+ bodies that are incorrect? If it's not possible, then there's another big cleanup job to rescan all these bodies to get the correct data in the databases.

 

[Orvidius]

Sometimes there's a fine line there. Technically it's considered airless + landable if the surface pressure is below 0.1% of Earth's sea level pressure. But since that's a non-zero limit, you can have some small amount of atmospheric pressure on some landable bodies.

 

[Zieman]

Sometimes there's a fine line there. Technically it's considered airless + landable if the surface pressure is below 0.1% of Earth's sea level pressure. But since that's a non-zero limit, you can have some small amount of atmospheric pressure on some landable bodies.

Interesting. I've never seen (or noticed) any landables with atmosphere in game.
If a body is landable, the info says 'atmosphere type: no atmosphere'.
If a body is not landable, the info says 'atmosphere type: whatever and surface pressure: x atmospheres' (x can be 0.00 too and the body isn't landable).

 

[iain666]

If a body is landable, the info says 'atmosphere type: no atmosphere'.

Sometimes, though, if you look in the journal you'll see a tiny atmospheric pressure. As the threshold is lower than the limit for getting an atmosphere displayed in the info you will also occasionally see a non-landable with no atmosphere and if you check the journal you'll probably see a low surface pressure as well.

 

[ekir]

Sometimes, though, if you look in the journal you'll see a tiny atmospheric pressure. As the threshold is lower than the limit for getting an atmosphere displayed in the info you will also occasionally see a non-landable with no atmosphere and if you check the journal you'll probably see a low surface pressure as well.

So I visited these two systems with my xbox account so cant' see the journal files. Let me find one nearby by pc account and get ajournal entry to lok at.

 

[Orvidius]

If a body is not landable, the info says 'atmosphere type: whatever and surface pressure: x atmospheres' (x can be 0.00 too and the body isn't landable).

Right, as Iain said, it'll show in the journal. If the pressure is low enough to be present, but show as "no atmosphere", it'll be below the rounding limit for two decimal places. 0.00098 (which is fairly high for a landable world) would show as "0.00" in game if it displayed it instead of "no atmosphere". Likewise, 0.0015 (too high to be landable) will also display as "0.00".

 

[Zieman]

Right, as Iain said, it'll show in the journal. If the pressure is low enough to be present, but show as "no atmosphere", it'll be below the rounding limit for two decimal places. 0.00098 (which is fairly high for a landable world) would show as "0.00" in game if it displayed it instead of "no atmosphere". Likewise, 0.0015 (too high to be landable) will also display as "0.00".

Ok, so the Journals show those values. But they're not shown anywhere in game, or in some cases, not in that detail.

 

[Orvidius]

Ok, so the Journals show those values. But they're not shown anywhere in game, or in some cases, not in that detail.

Yep, exactly.

 

[ekir]

OK so here's some data from a system that was close to my route.

{ "timestamp":"2019-12-01T02:50:02Z", "event":"Scan", "ScanType":"Detailed", "BodyName":"Pru Aescs NC-M d7-130 B 5 a", "BodyID":87, "Parents":[ {"Planet":86}, {"Star":2}, {"Null":0} ], "StarSystem":"Pru Aescs NC-M d7-130", "SystemAddress":4476589067459, "DistanceFromArrivalLS":99755.429688, "TidalLock":true, "TerraformState":"", "PlanetClass":"Rocky body", "Atmosphere":"", "AtmosphereType":"SulphurDioxide", "AtmosphereComposition":[ { "Name":"SulphurDioxide", "Percent":90.000000 }, { "Name":"Silicates", "Percent":5.000000 }, { "Name":"Oxygen", "Percent":2.999999 } ], "Volcanism":"major rocky magma volcanism", "MassEM":0.002837, "Radius":993011.062500, "SurfaceGravity":1.146878, "SurfaceTemperature":299.638489, "SurfacePressure":0.000000, "Landable":false, "Composition":{ "Ice":0.000000, "Rock":0.909097, "Metal":0.090903 }, "SemiMajorAxis":658388992.000000, "Eccentricity":0.001971, "OrbitalInclination":0.421505, "Periapsis":231.588928, "OrbitalPeriod":169653.828125, "RotationPeriod":169656.875000, "AxialTilt":0.363805, "WasDiscovered":true, "WasMapped":true }
{ "timestamp":"2019-12-01T02:49:24Z", "event":"Scan", "ScanType":"Detailed", "BodyName":"Pru Aescs NC-M d7-130 B 6 g", "BodyID":103, "Parents":[ {"Null":101}, {"Planet":92}, {"Star":2}, {"Null":0} ], "StarSystem":"Pru Aescs NC-M d7-130", "SystemAddress":4476589067459, "DistanceFromArrivalLS":99722.101563, "TidalLock":true, "TerraformState":"", "PlanetClass":"Rocky body", "Atmosphere":"", "AtmosphereType":"SulphurDioxide", "AtmosphereComposition":[ { "Name":"SulphurDioxide", "Percent":90.000000 }, { "Name":"Silicates", "Percent":5.000000 }, { "Name":"Oxygen", "Percent":2.999999 } ], "Volcanism":"major rocky magma volcanism", "MassEM":0.000808, "Radius":655354.312500, "SurfaceGravity":0.749419, "SurfaceTemperature":236.189987, "SurfacePressure":0.000000, "Landable":false, "Composition":{ "Ice":0.000000, "Rock":0.909097, "Metal":0.090903 }, "SemiMajorAxis":3160065.250000, "Eccentricity":0.057312, "OrbitalInclination":-2.854622, "Periapsis":284.417084, "OrbitalPeriod":116090.585938, "RotationPeriod":161380.140625, "AxialTilt":-0.017715, "WasDiscovered":true, "WasMapped":true }
{ "timestamp":"2019-12-01T02:49:28Z", "event":"Scan", "ScanType":"Detailed", "BodyName":"Pru Aescs NC-M d7-130 B 6 f", "BodyID":102, "Parents":[ {"Null":101}, {"Planet":92}, {"Star":2}, {"Null":0} ], "StarSystem":"Pru Aescs NC-M d7-130", "SystemAddress":4476589067459, "DistanceFromArrivalLS":99722.109375, "TidalLock":true, "TerraformState":"", "PlanetClass":"Rocky body", "Atmosphere":"", "AtmosphereType":"SulphurDioxide", "AtmosphereComposition":[ { "Name":"SulphurDioxide", "Percent":90.000000 }, { "Name":"Silicates", "Percent":5.000000 }, { "Name":"Oxygen", "Percent":2.999999 } ], "Volcanism":"major rocky magma volcanism", "MassEM":0.000866, "Radius":670717.625000, "SurfaceGravity":0.767320, "SurfaceTemperature":236.189987, "SurfacePressure":0.000000, "Landable":false, "Composition":{ "Ice":0.000000, "Rock":0.909097, "Metal":0.090903 }, "SemiMajorAxis":2946569.000000, "Eccentricity":0.057312, "OrbitalInclination":-2.854622, "Periapsis":104.417091, "OrbitalPeriod":116090.585938, "RotationPeriod":167124.359375, "AxialTilt":0.278346, "WasDiscovered":true, "WasMapped":true }


So looking at the log files they're showing 0.000000 surface pressure for the atmosphere even though there is an atmosphere there. It's just extremely thin. So perhaps with the manual data entry done early someone went through and flagged every system that has 0.000000 surface pressure as landable. Even though they aren't as you can see by the entry "Landable":false in the logfiles.

As opposed to
{ "timestamp":"2019-12-01T02:50:05Z", "event":"Scan", "ScanType":"Detailed", "BodyName":"Pru Aescs NC-M d7-130 B 5 d", "BodyID":91, "Parents":[ {"Planet":86}, {"Star":2}, {"Null":0} ], "StarSystem":"Pru Aescs NC-M d7-130", "SystemAddress":4476589067459, "DistanceFromArrivalLS":99764.398438, "TidalLock":true, "TerraformState":"", "PlanetClass":"Rocky body", "Atmosphere":"", "AtmosphereType":"None", "Volcanism":"", "MassEM":0.013093, "Radius":1641660.250000, "SurfaceGravity":1.936337, "SurfaceTemperature":281.311066, "SurfacePressure":0.000000, "Landable":true, "Materials":[ { "Name":"iron", "Percent":19.835348 }, { "Name":"sulphur", "Percent":19.241398 }, { "Name":"carbon", "Percent":16.180021 }, { "Name":"nickel", "Percent":15.002627 }, { "Name":"phosphorus", "Percent":10.358727 }, { "Name":"manganese", "Percent":8.191796 }, { "Name":"zinc", "Percent":5.390505 }, { "Name":"zirconium", "Percent":2.303293 }, { "Name":"ruthenium", "Percent":1.224959 }, { "Name":"tin", "Percent":1.182168 }, { "Name":"tungsten", "Percent":1.089160 } ], "Composition":{ "Ice":0.000000, "Rock":0.909097, "Metal":0.090903 }, "SemiMajorAxis":2799213056.000000, "Eccentricity":0.000948, "OrbitalInclination":-2.574210, "Periapsis":326.283997, "OrbitalPeriod":1487283.250000, "RotationPeriod":1487310.000000, "AxialTilt":0.354945, "WasDiscovered":true, "WasMapped":true }

Which has "AtmosphereType":"None" and "SurfacePressure":0.000000, but "Landable":true

 

[varonica]

So looking at the log files they're showing 0.000000 surface pressure for the atmosphere even though there is an atmosphere there. It's just extremely thin. So perhaps with the manual data entry done early someone went through and flagged every system that has 0.000000 surface pressure as landable. Even though they aren't as you can see by the entry "Landable":false in the logfiles.

Just as an aside, an interesting comment by FDEV a while back regarding the difference between atmospheric and non-atmospheric, and that's the fact that non-atmospheric can also include bodies that have a temporary atmosphere due to various factors such as rotation melting frozen gases or close approach to a star of a body with a highly elliptical orbit, so it's quite possible that some of these bodies with very thin atmosphere also only have a temporary atmosphere that freezes out during some part of their orbit. So determining whether or not bodies have atmosphere is probably more difficult than it first appears. In other words do they just class bodies that have temporary atmosphere for 50% of the time as atmospheric? Is it possible that bodies that have 0.000000 surface pressure and are classed as atmospheric are just in a part of their orbit when the gases in the atmosphere have frozen out?

 

[ekir]

Is it possible that bodies that have 0.000000 surface pressure and are classed as atmospheric are just in a part of their orbit when the gases in the atmosphere have frozen out?

Is there any way we can get clarification from FDEV regarding this so we know if it's just a data screwup on our end, or the system is more complicated than it first appears.

 

[varonica]

I'm not sure exactly what determines non-landable because I have seen non landables with no atmosphere that were to all intents and purposes just icy or rocky bodies identical to all the others in the same system. It's possible that the Stellar Forge has determined that these bodies contain features that aren't ready for us to encounter, graphical or physical features that don't yet have models maybe. I very much suggest it is way more complicated than it first appears, most apparantly simple things are.

 

[Zieman]

Is there any way we can get clarification from FDEV regarding this so we know if it's just a data screwup on our end, or the system is more complicated than it first appears.

IMO the issue is crystal clear: there's a data screwup on your end.
You shouldn't flag bodies as landable or not by atmospheric pressure, but the flag landable: true/false.
If landable flag is absent, then the atmosphere type should be the clue: to be landable, a body needs an atmosphere type of 'none'.

 

[ekir]

IMO the issue is crystal clear: there's a data screwup on your end.

So how is it fixed in the database then.

 

[Zieman]

So how is it fixed in the database then.

That is a good question, to which I have no ready answer.
Maybe do a cleanup run of scans, look for 'atmosphere type: none' (if 'atmosphere type' not already present and associated with said bodies in the database, in which case you could fix it right away in that end).

 

[ekir]

Maybe do a cleanup run of scans

But I've already done that on two systems and nothing has changed.

 

[iain666]

But I've already done that on two systems and nothing has changed.

Probably need to talk to @AnthorNet then.