Day 64 of a broken background sim

[Ian Doncaster]

If Dereim is worried about systems states decaying whilst no maintenance goes on then either ditch the system or put some time into maintaining it.

From what they've said I get the impression that it's more worrying as a "why doesn't this *also* seem to happen to low-traffic systems with orbital stations and does this therefore imply a problem with which transactions are being counted at all?" question, rather than as a "we must save our faction" issue.

Asking them "have you considered doing actions in that system" is like asking an expert PvP pilot "have you considered aiming" when they raise points about the balance between plasma and laser weapons. Yes, it would "solve" the problem of the economic state decaying, but it's completely irrelevant to the issue they're raising that you can do that.

(Remember that this is the faction which intentionally UA-bombed and Lockdowned its own stations, back when that was a thing, to make them easier to manage and less attractive to competitors. They're not worrying about the same things as the average startup BGS group...)

 

[Ralph Vargr]

From what they've said I get the impression that it's more worrying as a "why doesn't this *also* seem to happen to low-traffic systems with orbital stations and does this therefore imply a problem with which transactions are being counted at all?" question, rather than as a "we must save our faction" issue.

Asking them "have you considered doing actions in that system" is like asking an expert PvP pilot "have you considered aiming" when they raise points about the balance between plasma and laser weapons. Yes, it would "solve" the problem of the economic state decaying, but it's completely irrelevant to the issue they're raising that you can do that.

(Remember that this is the faction which intentionally UA-bombed and Lockdowned its own stations, back when that was a thing, to make them easier to manage and less attractive to competitors. They're not worrying about the same things as the average startup BGS group...)

They did *what* ?!?

I really don't understand BGS play.

 

[Stigbob]

From what they've said I get the impression that it's more worrying as a "why doesn't this *also* seem to happen to low-traffic systems with orbital stations and does this therefore imply a problem with which transactions are being counted at all?" question, rather than as a "we must save our faction" issue.

Asking them "have you considered doing actions in that system" is like asking an expert PvP pilot "have you considered aiming" when they raise points about the balance between plasma and laser weapons. Yes, it would "solve" the problem of the economic state decaying, but it's completely irrelevant to the issue they're raising that you can do that.

(Remember that this is the faction which intentionally UA-bombed and Lockdowned its own stations, back when that was a thing, to make them easier to manage and less attractive to competitors. They're not worrying about the same things as the average startup BGS group...)

Possibly, possibly not if he decides to clarify we'll know.

 

[Aashenfox]

They did *what* ?!?

I really don't understand BGS play.

Yes, if someone was pushing your faction into a not very nice position, you always had the option of murdering your own civilians to cause a lockdown, or UA bomb a station to prevent hand ins there, etc. Power Play actually requires a lot of hurting your own superpower to progress it, which is why I don't bother with it, it's pretty silly if you ask me to murder your own civilians for their own good, but it happens all. the. time.

 

[Tarman]

Yes, if someone was pushing your faction into a not very nice position, you always had the option of murdering your own civilians to cause a lockdown, or UA bomb a station to prevent hand ins there, etc. Power Play actually requires a lot of hurting your own superpower to progress it, which is why I don't bother with it, it's pretty silly if you ask me to muder your own civilians for their own good, but it happens all. the. time.

You're right. It also happens in this game, too. >__>

 

[Mangal Oemie]

Maybe but its irrelevant to the point I'm making.

If Dereim is worried about systems states decaying whilst no maintenance goes on then either ditch the system or put some time into maintaining it. One of the changes to the BGS that's fairly apparent to me is you need maintain what you've got to prevent decay. If you spread across multiple systems some of them lacking anything that would pull random people in boosting you with the usual claiming buying selling at your stations then you need to do it all yourself.

If you don't they'll decay.

It makes perfect sense to me, it adds a limiting factor to how many systems you can control. The effect may even be cumulative for the larger PMF's preventing galactic domination. It also means abandoned factions will just die off.

I may be wrong, but it seems you're arguing from knowledge of the new BGS mechanics from livestreams and reading, rather than from understanding the bugs people actually playing the BGS are experiencing.

We can have the discussion about ditching systems to ease maintenance once things are actually fixed. But as long as the BGS responds differently day by day in same and different systems with the same contributions, as long as conflicts can be lost by fighting for your own faction, as long as explo. trade and mining contributions are entirely unpredictable in their result, etc. such discussion is premature.

First we need a modicum of consistency.

 

[Stigbob]

I may be wrong, but it seems you're arguing from knowledge of the new BGS mechanics from livestreams and reading, rather than from understanding the bugs people actually playing the BGS are experiencing.

You are wrong.

I'm just not seeing these bugs, I'm seeing people complaining about change and struggling to adapt but not the specific bugs people mention.

We can have the discussion about ditching systems to ease maintenance once things are actually fixed. But as long as the BGS responds differently day by day in same and different systems with the same contributions, as long as conflicts can be lost by fighting for your own faction, as long as explo. trade and mining contributions are entirely unpredictable in their result, etc. such discussion is premature.

If it seems broken to you downsize and see if its better. There's no point waiting for someone to tell you what to do, take action see what the result is then make further decisions from a position of expanded knowledge. Worst case you retake something you've already taken, either way is BGS game content.

First we need a modicum of consistency.

I'm not seeing inconsistency either.

 

[Jane Turner]

Maybe but its irrelevant to the point I'm making.

If Dereim is worried about systems states decaying whilst no maintenance goes on then either ditch the system or put some time into maintaining it. One of the changes to the BGS that's fairly apparent to me is you need maintain what you've got to prevent decay. If you spread across multiple systems some of them lacking anything that would pull random people in boosting you with the usual claiming buying selling at your stations then you need to do it all yourself.

If you don't they'll decay.

It makes perfect sense to me, it adds a limiting factor to how many systems you can control. The effect may even be cumulative for the larger PMF's preventing galactic domination. It also means abandoned factions will just die off.

Again the issue is its not the decay, its that its not consistent. Natural slow decay towards famine was introduced to the game in season 2....... what is hapenning now which suggests that somthing is wrong somewhere. it a job of 30 seconds to correct so its not ever going to limit size. The only issue I can see is that we may have to do some odd manipulations to drop influence while raising economic state. We have one system that is at 74% and bust for example.

 

[Mangal Oemie]

You are wrong.

I'm just not seeing these bugs, I'm seeing people complaining about change and struggling to adapt but not the specific bugs people mention.

.

Then there is absolutely no reason for us to be discussing BGS issues. Take care, bye.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Yes, if someone was pushing your faction into a not very nice position, you always had the option of murdering your own civilians to cause a lockdown, or UA bomb a station to prevent hand ins there, etc. Power Play actually requires a lot of hurting your own superpower to progress it, which is why I don't bother with it, it's pretty silly if you ask me to murder your own civilians for their own good, but it happens all. the. time.

Hence the stolen nuke....

 

[Stigbob]

Then there is absolutely no reason for us to be discussing BGS issues. Take care, bye.

Maybe you are as wrong about the "issues" you perceive as you are in your other assumptions.

 

[Mangal Oemie]

Maybe you are as wrong about the "issues" you perceive as you are in your other assumptions.

Yeah, what do I know... I've only been planning and running BGS operations for our group for about 3 years now...

 

[Stigbob]

Yeah, what do I know... I've only been planning and running BGS operations for our group for about 3 years now...

That's nice for you, its utterly irrelevant to me though.

 

[Aashenfox]

That's nice for you, its utterly irrelevant to me though.

When your car mechanic tells you there's something wrong with your car, which doesn't affect the way you use it, but would be dangerous for someone who drives a bit faster, would you not consider that opinion valid, assuming you are not a mechanic yourself, and just be happy that you don't currently drive in such a way as to be affected?

 

[Stigbob]

When your car mechanic tells you there's something wrong with your car, which doesn't affect the way you use it, but would be dangerous for someone who drives a bit faster, would you not consider that opinion valid, assuming you are not a mechanic yourself, and just be happy that you don't currently drive in such a way as to be affected?

I listen to my mechanic, as I know he knows his onions as I worked in a garage many years ago and he's kept my clapped out old motor going really well whilst conferring with me on required work. Internet randoms who are wrong about things don't make the grade.

 

[Aashenfox]

I listen to my mechanic, as I know he knows his onions as I worked in a garage many years ago and he's kept my clapped out old motor going really well whilst conferring with me on required work. Internet randoms who are wrong about things don't make the grade.

I appreciate that, and while Mangal may not exactly be a colleague of mine (we are often at war in the BGS), he knows his stuff. Better than I do, for sure, and therefore I have to assume better than those who don't play the BGS as part of their daily routines.

I'd say it qualifies him. I'd even go as far as to say I'm qualified to speak about certain parts of the BGS, while still an apprentice, to use another mechanical term. Please believe us, when we both tell you it's not working properly. You'll note that I too earlier in the thread said many are overstating the fact. I trust MO's assessment more than most. Will that do for you?

 

[Rubbernuke]

So have FD been modelling democracy too closely then by making votes count for opposition factions? The BGS still has numerous bugs, and I suspect balancing issues ahead of it as well.

 

[Stigbob]

I appreciate that, and while Mangal may not exactly be a colleague of mine (we are often at war in the BGS), he knows his stuff. Better than I do, for sure, and therefore I have to assume better than those who don't play the BGS as part of their daily routines.

I'd say it qualifies him. I'd even go as far as to say I'm qualified to speak about certain parts of the BGS, while still an apprentice, to use another mechanical term. Please believe us, when we both tell you it's not working properly. You'll note that I too earlier in the thread said many are overstating the fact. I trust MO's assessment more than most. Will that do for you?

Maybe so, he came across to me as making wrong assumptions then flouncing out of the conversation in a bit of a huff whilst telling me how super influential he is and making no relevant points at all. It wasn't a convincing approach, he may well be a wizard at the BGS but that counts for nothing if he can't get his message across effectively.

 

[Mangal Oemie]

Maybe so, he came across to me as making wrong assumptions then flouncing out of the conversation in a bit of a huff whilst telling me how super influential he is and making no relevant points at all. It wasn't a convincing approach, he may well be a wizard at the BGS but that counts for nothing if he can't get his message across effectively.

That's probably because BGS discussion happens in the BGS subforum, and this thread spilled over from there due to frustration with inaction by Frontier on the known BGS bugs. I assumed that since you were posting in a BGS bug thread, you were aware of the BGS bugs we've been discussion in the sub forum for some time. If you're new to the topic, maybe don't start off with claiming that everything is fine and everybody else is wrong?

This is from 3.3.02, but the only thing fixed is that missions with negative destination effects now work, again, and CZs are generally more stable (but still don't consistently work for BGS results): https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ssues-with-the-3-3-02-BGS-(orig-AEDC-Discord) Oh, and conflicts are no longer stuck endlessly. As far as we know.

 

[Screemonster]

Maybe the return-to-mean needs to be stronger for all those investment systems. If it is decaying, it's not decaying fast enough to overcome general player traffic.
If it were me I'd have the centering effect get stronger the longer you've been in boom/investment so it's still possible to maintain, it just takes more and more work per day to do so until finally you backslide into a none state and it resets.

(of course, if it were me I'd have removed the ability of players to directly generate inf+ buckets entirely and gone with a system where a %age of security/economy/happiness is converted to inf+/- on the tick, so getting maximum swings would mean a group would have to do work on all three sliders, so no more "just do as many cop-kills as you can and nothing else" - sure it'd tank the sec slider but you'd have to at least do positive work for their rivals to really have an effect)