DDF and their "god-like powers"
- Thread starter Carsten
- Start date
Well, maybe it needs to be buried then. Then we can all move on!
As an active DDF member who thinks FD made some very wrong decisions, I do not recognise the problem you are quoting. We all knew that we were not going to make any decisions, and all that we were going to do was talk about the proposals, but that FD would read what was said, and ponder on it. Sure I shared the sense of euphoria most of the DDF had when the initial 'jumps to rooms in space' proposal was thrown out and replaced with supercruise (and, much later, a fair amount of disappointment when I saw what was actually implemented). But I do not recall any rage or anger over decisions they made - they were always their decisions to make. Perhaps the one I am most annoyed by was not implementing the transponder (that thing that deusx_ophc is so pleased they did not do). Not only did it prevent me playing the game the way I wanted to play it, but it lead (along with no consequences for murder or griefing) to large numbers of players running away to hide in solo or Mobius, and thus indirectly to all the angst about solo vs group vs open. Whether the transponder would have lessened that we will never know, but I doubt that it could have been any worse than what we have, and polls from the player base had just 18% in favour of the current always on 'flashing blue light'. But even then, I am more annoyed at FD not doing the test they said they would do, than them making their decision. If, indeed they made an active decision. It could well have been a totally passive one when they locked down the release date, and effectively decided to call whatever was available on that day 'a complete game', and anything not yet done was put to one side.
There were a few things that Sandro suggested we would 'try out' during the beta - the good old transponder being one of them. But I never saw that as a DDF thing per se. After all, all beta players would have been involved with the testing.
I'm still completely confused about why FD abandoned the DDF. The less than enthusiastic reaction to some of the things they did without DDF comments must surely make them realise the value of the feedback. It will be far, far, more expensive for them to fix it after the event than to have got it right first time. On my darker days, I suspect it may be tied in with the switch to a different audience, but who knows.
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Perhaps most of the interesting stuff in the DDA, that hasn't been implemented, will be 80% vapourware. Perhaps not, since ED is still evolving. I just hope I don't die of old age first before I see the good stuff.
We should be able to judge the likely position in about a year or so, when the amount of 'free' core work they will do in parallel with the season 2 expansions becomes clear.
I understand what you're saying, but I think the point I was attempting to make was that there is a degree of (and I don't mean this as a criticism) 'entitlement' when paying extra to be on the DDF. Entitlement, of course could mean a few things - maybe 'privilege' or 'special treatment' is better . If I had paid the extra cash to be heard I'd probably feel the same. Hence the tension that will always exist for those that want it to.
There is certainly a sense of entitlement, yes. In my case it is that I am entitled to what the pledge said I would get, which explicitly included the 'near God-likes' and I believe I was shortchanged over the time the DDF was active - they abandoned it too soon. Now, of course, a lawyer (not to mention certain white knights on here) would point out that FD never gave a time scale for how long the DDF would run, and thus as long as the talked to us a few times, they had done their side of the deal. But there is an entitlement there, yes.
I never felt any sense of entitlement that I should ever expect them to do what I suggested. In part, perhaps, this is because my real world job for most of my career was a business software product manager. I had to make the calls on what would, and would not be done. And very often, because of outside pressures, I did things that I did not want to do, and did not do things that were important to me.
The biggest impact I believe was their funding model for this project. Which seemed to change just as I joined?
It seemed (to me), to force a radical change in the direction the game took during Beta stage.
They either hid it well or some accountant came in during beta and pointed out the way 'other' games are now funded. The DDF etc all went into a black hole. Single player etc. and as others point out their software problems may just have been too big and too slow to fix in the short term. Money drove this into overdrive to get it out to the masses by xmas.
We're now getting things like PP to try and patch things up?
The main decisions do seem to come from the top with little or no input from the paid up DDF'ers etc now.
Its all my fault!
When I joined at prem Beta I liked what I had been reading in the forum and DDF etc. As soon as I joined it all went into south. Sorry cmdrs! Maybe one day someone will take Elite 84 and just improve the graphics and sound?
My motto KISS keep it simple stupid
It seemed (to me), to force a radical change in the direction the game took during Beta stage.
They either hid it well or some accountant came in during beta and pointed out the way 'other' games are now funded. The DDF etc all went into a black hole. Single player etc. and as others point out their software problems may just have been too big and too slow to fix in the short term. Money drove this into overdrive to get it out to the masses by xmas.
We're now getting things like PP to try and patch things up?
The main decisions do seem to come from the top with little or no input from the paid up DDF'ers etc now.
Its all my fault!
When I joined at prem Beta I liked what I had been reading in the forum and DDF etc. As soon as I joined it all went into south. Sorry cmdrs! Maybe one day someone will take Elite 84 and just improve the graphics and sound?
My motto KISS keep it simple stupid
<grins> Space him!
What if the Powerplay UI in the game had a special section, only visible for DDF-rated members, that gave all the aforementioned stats on piracy/trade/etc for that Power's area of influence? It could offer the ability for the DDF to select from a menu of special actions for each constituent system - these could be tallied up with the actions selected by the other DDF-rated members, and a final course of action would be reached. This could then become a Power-specific Community Goal during the next turn. Would such a feature be sufficient to satisfy at least part of the DDF gripes?
I don't think the funding model changed. I think they just decided to go gung-ho for the pewpew and MMO folks and abandoned the kickstarters who had helped them get that far (unless those kickstarters were pewpew and MMO folks, of course).
For me, personally, no. The whole Powerplay thing I simply ignore as it's not, for me, Elite. If they got rid of the whole "poster personality faction interaction" and reduced it simply to Imps vs Feds vs Alliance v Indeps that were actually represented by pilots swearing allegiance (on a permanent basis, with severe consequences for treason) then there could be all sorts of interesting things going on. Instead we have Imp vs Imp vs Player ideas, vs Devs - and the Devs always win
Players backing Powers is a nice idea, but it's currently a bit meaningless when you can hold every rank on all sides, you can back a power for the shiny stuff and bonus, get their Power Toy, leave to join someone else, and grind for the next bit of useless shiny.
My apologies if I sound overly negative. Elite is a great game, and I honestly believe it will get greater over time - but at the moment a lot of what has been introduced seems utterly pointless and un-Elite to me.
With respect, you're missing the larger point of FD's pattern of disingenuous communications that has destroyed it's credibility. A minor attempt to assuage that concern by throwing a small bone to the dogs is not likely to be a remedy for a long developed loss of trust.
FD needs to become more far-sighted in it's vision and consistent in it's movement in that direction with clear, unambiguous and disciplined communications if it wants to regain some trust among the base.
A successful prosecutor doesn't go into the court room having written the Opening Statement first. The smart ones know that you write the Closing Statement first and then work backward in the details of you preparation and execution. FD just doesn't get this and consequently continues to keep shooting it's own feet.
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+1 ^^ Spot on.
what's this transponder?
No apology necessary (you don't know how to be properly negative). Apparently the median play time is 20 hrs. If that's true then its damming evidence that not only was the DDA and its great ideas abandoned, all players were. Regardless of pewpew and mmo leanings no-one has been given the game they reserved for an elite remake. The Elite name is being milked like a cash cow and the winners are the share holders, we players all lose.
You may want to believe that eventually the game will rise to it's potential, but one only need only look at PowerFolly to see that the bell of shame will toll eternally.
See here!
I don't think attempting to polarise two imaginary groups of players is helpful. Its quite easy of course when making a point to use two extremes, but I very much doubt that's the reality. You're miffed some features aren't in the game or the game is not going the way you imagined. There's no need to create an Us and Them argument (of course, that doesn't stop plenty of other people on here!)
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For me, personally, no. The whole Powerplay thing I simply ignore as it's not, for me, Elite. If they got rid of the whole "poster personality faction interaction" and reduced it simply to Imps vs Feds vs Alliance v Indeps that were actually represented by pilots swearing allegiance (on a permanent basis, with severe consequences for treason) then there could be all sorts of interesting things going on. Instead we have Imp vs Imp vs Player ideas, vs Devs - and the Devs always win
Players backing Powers is a nice idea, but it's currently a bit meaningless when you can hold every rank on all sides, you can back a power for the shiny stuff and bonus, get their Power Toy, leave to join someone else, and grind for the next bit of useless shiny.
My apologies if I sound overly negative. Elite is a great game, and I honestly believe it will get greater over time - but at the moment a lot of what has been introduced seems utterly pointless and un-Elite to me.
Have to agree here; while I'm certain powerplay is fun for many, it just seems incoherent and nonsensical when there is the alliance/fed/imp and the ability to ally with them - faction specific ships and in the future potential for faction specific outfittings and all within the scope of the lore - and all accessible and fun for the solo player.
I don't play enough to warrant even taking a look at powerplay tbh but if it was part of fed/imp/alliance I would be allied to one and be a part of it in every session I played. Powerplay just doesn't have the satisfying aspects of commitment - while it does have the effort of commitment (merit grinding and merit decay).
So yeah.. total agreement with you.
Sounds like that would have been cool to include, fitting within the lore and style of the game. Hell, it's a fitting pvp/pve flag for the multiplayer that would make the current 'groups' version of the game needless were the multiplayer instancing sufficient that your group members took priority over random players.
A shame it was not implemented.