DDF and their "god-like powers"

[Boff'in]

http://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/126941182591/do-you-ever-feel-like-the-industry-is-too
FAN EXPECTATION VS REALITY

Kickstarter advertised the finished product, AFTER all roadmap milestones has been completed.
Not the game at launch and not the first season. (Which is not over, even random art asset of stations from CQC are to be included into the main game, upgrading the visual and possibilities......)

This is what we are ALL looking forward too.

http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Elite:_Dangerous_FAQ#What_are_the_expansions.3F
Landing / driving / prospecting on airless rocky planets, moons & asteroids (Elite Dangerous: Horizons)
Walking around interiors and combative boarding of other ships
Combat and other interactions with other players and AIs in the internal areas of star ports
Accessing richly detailed planetary surfaces
Availability of giant ‘executive control’ ships to players
(5 years worth of Seasons)

One year ago, August 2014, we only a handful of stations to dock, shooting and trading - that's it - we barely had a game cycle.
Beta2 appeared at the end of september 2014,
Beta3 with fuel scooping and mining appeared 6 weeks before launch.

And not all planned features are set in stone.
Just because something is on a plan, or roadmap, isn't always a promise from a developer.
Don't be that Fan who get grumpy over fantasy-league-feature-list (on in your timeframe) not equating to actual feature list (plodding on at a typical development pace).
Most of us have been around the block a few times to know better.
Things happen. Unintended, whacky, surprising.
Stuff just falls apart as you build it - that's the way of development.
And the other stuff, the good stuff that works. That takes it sweet time to implement, and longer to polish to it's better form.



A number of features from the DDF have made if through, and many more might wind up into the game, in the fullness of time.
Supercruise was one of the things that the Kickstarter backers got to decide over the rest of the player base.

 

[Cody]

Some liked the idea, others hated it - and I think the compromise that might have come about wouldn't have been any good.

 

[Roybe]

I doubt it.

I don't think most backers even care anymore and just accept that FD has no credibility left.

I don't even listen to their empty hype anymore. I've just accepted that FD retains the right to renege any and all statements made at any time and that they often contradict themselves in the forums within discussions on any given topic.

The only realistic approach is to just move on and play the environment as it evolves.

Acceptance is beautiful. People were told this during the DDF...and still held onto the belief that FDev would change the game to match their desires. At lease it's starting to sink in.

 

[Herik]

That would be me as well

Well 'god like' powers always come with responsibilities. All that was very personal and way more money then I could contribute and at the time I couldn't have cared less, and (personally) still wouldn't want it.

 

[deMangler]

Hi Carsten! Long time...
Whatever the godlikes turn out to be I hope it has nothing to do with powerplay. That would be like selling someone a car and promising extra special oil if they pay a premium, and then giving them a piano and expecting them to be happy if you later on grease the wheels.
Personally not that bothered about the powers, more outraged at the way the DDF has been treated generally. Deeply saddening.

 

[Armour]

Didn't the big spenders of the DDF shoehorn Supercruise into the game? That is not universally loved by the player base by any means. I would hazard a guess that some oft-reported problems of multiplayer instancing are as much a direct consequence of having to work Supercruise in the game, as they are related to P2P networking. Developers have used Supercruise as an example of how the discussion process has improved the game - but I wonder if that positivity is genuine or more of a case of the devs making the best of the situation?

I think the DDF was a dud from the start. I mean, the phrase "design by committee" even sounds boring, doesn't it? If my favourite band decided to crowdfund their next album, I wouldn't expect them to add a funding tier whereby backers could get involved in the songwriting process. As it is, I offer suggestions on here all the time, and maybe one of them will get used, who knows? If they all fall on deaf ears, I wouldn't be too surprised or even disappointed however. I'm not in the band.

 

[Jason S]

The whole DDF thing is a mess and I understand that people are not happy and they are I think in this case entitled to be not happy.

FD did say that DDF people will be given something instead. I am glad I did not up to DDF.

 

[deusx_ophc]

Didn't the big spenders of the DDF shoehorn Supercruise into the game? That is not universally loved by the player base by any means. I would hazard a guess that some oft-reported problems of multiplayer instancing are as much a direct consequence of having to work Supercruise in the game, as they are related to P2P networking. Developers have used Supercruise as an example of how the discussion process has improved the game - but I wonder if that positivity is genuine or more of a case of the devs making the best of the situation?

I think the DDF was a dud from the start. I mean, the phrase "design by committee" even sounds boring, doesn't it? If my favourite band decided to crowdfund their next album, I wouldn't expect them to add a funding tier whereby backers could get involved in the songwriting process. As it is, I offer suggestions on here all the time, and maybe one of them will get used, who knows? If they all fall on deaf ears, I wouldn't be too surprised or even disappointed however. I'm not in the band.

i like ^^ but then i am not that gullible

 

[Asp Explorer]

I am glad I did not up to DDF.

I'm glad I did - it helped the game get made

Wether we see godlike powers or no (and I'm tempted to think we never will) that little extra cash paid for a few hours dev work, which meant I got to fly an Asp around

Currently I'm trying out a DBE, but after a few more systems I'm going to go back and pick the Asp up again - those sounds!

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

Supercruise was one of the things that the Kickstarter backers got to decide over the rest of the player base.

Oh no they didn't. Have you not read this thread? The kickstarter backers, indeed even the DDF members amongst the kickstarter backers decided absolutely nothing in the game design. All praise and all complaints must be directed at FD, because everything was their call.

Some liked the idea, others hated it - and I think the compromise that might have come about wouldn't have been any good.

If you are talking about the transponder then of course I very much disagree. I think that those who argued that it had to be the flashing blue light were very selfish: I know I'm right so everyone must do it my way, like it or not (of course those, if there were any, who argued there should be no id at all were being equally selfish). The advantage of the transponder idea was that it was genuinely a compromise where everyone would pretty much get what they wanted. People who wanted insta-id would fly around with the transponder on, and instantly id fellow players with theirs on, They would see a game where there were ships flying around with some identified as PCs, and others not PCs, as they wanted, and indeed as now. What they would not see were people who did not want insta-id, and so had turned their transponder off. Or rather, they would see those players no differently than NPCs. They could still see them, and 'interact' with them, but not be told they were PCs. For the people who had the transponder off, all ships would look the same. They might be PCs, or they might not. For someone like me who wanted to make in game decisions for in-game reasons, the transponder was obviously the best way to go. I hate being ganked or instantly attacked just because I am a PC. I hate seeing other ships as PCs because my natural reactions, much though I would prefer it not to be, is to treat them differently. I tried to ignore whether the triangle was open or not, but I couldn't. Whilst I cannot honestly say it ruined the game for me, it certainly made it less enjoyable, and although I still always play in open, I now avoid populated areas precisely because I do not want to be instantly identified so that I can become someone's content.

 

[Sysmon]

DDF was a brainstorm, I thought. We got to come with suggestions and the developers would have those in mind when they started smithing. It never read like anything but a polished-up set of meeting minutes, though. I was happy we got SuperCruise out of it, that was nearly the only way we could get something similar to the time-manipulation used in in Frontier/FFE and be able to keep a to-scale galaxy model. It was saddening, though, that SC got warped into something simple and nearly pointless as it is now. At least early on one had to think a bit while commuting.

I have a feeling that the outcome of the DDF was a roadmap for the game, that the developers may still be following when they can. In the end it is about balance and what will work when the MMO hits the fan, so to speak. Godlike powers? No thanks, I paid my 200 pounds to back the game, not to win it or have an advantage over others except maybe cool skins or symbols for my ships for the hordes to be envying.

S

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I wasn't aware of any supposed god like powers.

What do we need to do to appease our new masters? Sacrifice a chicken?

 

[Jason S]

I'm glad I did - it helped the game get made

[/I]

Well if you mean making a "donation" to a company with several other projects in the hope that the money will be spent to make the game. But I suppose there is some respect for the fans who do the talking with the cash so have some rep.

 

[Patrick_68000]

Indeed. DBOBE said early in the kickstarter (in the risks section, IIRC) that they had already cracked complicated things like the networking. Hands up who believes that one!

Yes, they did a lot of work before the kickstarter launched. It had been running as a stealth project for some time. Otherwise they would not have been able to show videos like the dogfight in the asteroids.

But the fact remains that they had certainly not cracked the networking, as anyone who struggled through the alpha and beta while they rewrote it would attest. Even now we get fairly frequent threads posted complaining about the networking and the difficulties of finding friends and winging up. And you are surely not suggesting that the trading market and background simulation are as successful as they should be?

Yes, and I believe also that Frontier did not think that the players would have the requirements, as much high.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

Didn't the big spenders of the DDF shoehorn Supercruise into the game? That is not universally loved by the player base by any means. I would hazard a guess that some oft-reported problems of multiplayer instancing are as much a direct consequence of having to work Supercruise in the game, as they are related to P2P networking. Developers have used Supercruise as an example of how the discussion process has improved the game - but I wonder if that positivity is genuine or more of a case of the devs making the best of the situation?

I think the DDF was a dud from the start. I mean, the phrase "design by committee" even sounds boring, doesn't it? If my favourite band decided to crowdfund their next album, I wouldn't expect them to add a funding tier whereby backers could get involved in the songwriting process. As it is, I offer suggestions on here all the time, and maybe one of them will get used, who knows? If they all fall on deaf ears, I wouldn't be too surprised or even disappointed however. I'm not in the band.

Have you bothered to read any of this thread, or any descriptions of what the DDF was?

No the DDF did not shoehorn supercruise into the game. After their initial suggestion (microjumps to rooms in space) was trashed by the DDF, FD rethought and came back with supercruise. At a high level. Personally, whilst I was dead against the microjumps and enthusiastic when they described the supercruise idea, I am not all that enthusiastic about the eventual implementation. The guess you hazarded is very unlikely to be true. FD needed a mechanism of getting players into the same area so they could interact. With their chosen P2P networking (chosen and build (though not well) before the kickstarter started) wherever players got together would have suffered from the P2P problems. If there had been microjumps to rooms in space, the only way that pirates would have been able to operate would be if there was a large area around the point of interest to give pirates time to, well, pirate. The problems you see in supercruise would simply have moved.

Design by committee would indeed have been ineffective. Just as well it didn't happen that way, then. Or, rather, just as well the committees were small, and all in the offices of FD.

 

[Patrick_68000]

Perhaps most of the interesting stuff in the DDA, that hasn't been implemented, will be 80% vapourware. Perhaps not, since ED is still evolving. I just hope I don't die of old age first before I see the good stuff.

I hope also that David and his team remain healthy

 

[Armour]

The advantage of the transponder idea was that it was genuinely a compromise where everyone would pretty much get what they wanted.

I agree, and was initially disappointed that the idea went the way of the dodo. It seemed like a great way to allow selective visibility and interaction. Of course, the fact that people could monitor their bandwidth usage and tell if players are about even if they have their transponders switched off does throw a bit of a spanner in the works. It also negates the usefulness of stealth during PvP, however - but they stuck the heat management and silent running stuff in the game anyway.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

Yes, and I believe also that Frontier did not think that the players would have the requirements, as much high.

Then they were very naive. Especially DBOBE, since it was largely his videos that set those sky high expectations.

 

[Arindor]

We should be able to judge the likely position in about a year or so, when the amount of 'free' core work they will do in parallel with the season 2 expansions becomes clear.

Yes, a good point. But I'm not getting any younger. Anyway, if most of the cool DDF/DDA stuff comes to fuition, then there are exciting times ahead!

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

I agree, and was initially disappointed that the idea went the way of the dodo. It seemed like a great way to allow selective visibility and interaction. Of course, the fact that people could monitor their bandwidth usage and tell if players are about even if they have their transponders switched off does throw a bit of a spanner in the works. It also negates the usefulness of stealth during PvP, however - but they stuck the heat management and silent running stuff in the game anyway.

Agreed. But I suspect most players don't do that sort of stuff, especially in a game where there is no 'win'. But some undoubtedly would.