Design 101 - Players must ALWAYS have choice to avoid or run instead of fight

[Sim Maker]

People use the Boost Away exploite because?........they don't want their 4 hours of grind to be lost to someone that will jsut destroy them if they stop..........so, they use the 100% safe exploit....boosting.........
..

They will NOT be "forced" in to interdicitons...........they will either 1. Go to Solo.......or 2. If NPC nerfs result in the same result, leave the game entirely...........
...
The game was "ok" on release, but it is slowly being turned in to a flat out shooter, and an incredibally unfair one for any trader, week one noob suddenly facing an A Grade Annaconda bought with credits "earned" through OTHER exploits used by early adopters..........So new traders are already at a DIS-Advantage........I mean, they have to play fair, try and trade, maybe do a rare run.......but all the early code exploits, used by the "poor pirates" to buy the most expensive ships in the game, now DEMAND that their boredom be fixed by givving tghem freew targets and a chance for others to progress......
...
FD should ditch the whole Pirate thing, or leave Wanted on you, for ever, so the rest can just blow you away........

 

[Majinvash]

People use the Boost Away exploite because?........they don't want their 4 hours of grind to be lost to someone that will jsut destroy them if they stop..........so, they use the 100% safe exploit....boosting.........
..

They will NOT be "forced" in to interdicitons...........they will either 1. Go to Solo.......or 2. If NPC nerfs result in the same result, leave the game entirely...........
...
The game was "ok" on release, but it is slowly being turned in to a flat out shooter, and an incredibally unfair one for any trader, week one noob suddenly facing an A Grade Annaconda bought with credits "earned" through OTHER exploits used by early adopters..........So new traders are already at a DIS-Advantage........I mean, they have to play fair, try and trade, maybe do a rare run.......but all the early code exploits, used by the "poor pirates" to buy the most expensive ships in the game, now DEMAND that their boredom be fixed by givving tghem freew targets and a chance for others to progress......
...
FD should ditch the whole Pirate thing, or leave Wanted on you, for ever, so the rest can just blow you away........

Clearly you have never tried to bounty or pirate.

In my pirate asp I have to choose my targets carefully to just hope to break even.
Due to the damage and small chance of getting anything out of an interdiction.
I never take on a bounty less than 20k as its not worth the interdiction damage.

You won't really get pirates in anything higher than an Asp, as even a successful stop and grab will cost them way more than they could hope to grab. Anything smaller than an asp and you cannot mass lock the target and it will get away before you can take a shield down.

So it's a pointless argument. Even against noobs. If someone has a Python and enough funds to support a spate of interdictions.
They aren't after your cargo and there is nothing you can or should be able to do about that.

If you were in a cargo freighter and a naval destroy decided to grief you. All you have left is hope and prayer.

 

[tagos]

Tagos seems to think that 8 seconds is long enough for a skilled pirate to damage a trader, but even if it is (maybe a trader with no shield, I suppose), it is not long enough for any player interaction.

It is - if you're good enough and skilled enough using something other than gimballed beams and multi-cannon. No pirate should be running with gimballed weapons as they can be spoofed. If you are then - you're not a skilled pirate and of course you can't stop people running. Any would-be pirate running without a fixed weapon set forfeits their right to complain. If I was going to pirate I'd run with rails and cannons and when i was bounty hunting I made sure I could use them.

I want the option to play a pirate but the option isn't in the game. There's no career path, there's no reward and there's not even the thrill of combat.

i don't want to club seals. I want to earn my cargo.

FD can extend the cooldown to 30 seconds and people will still complain. And traders will still not be interested in talking because we have no belief that dropping cargo will end in anything but death because there is no actual penalty for player killing.

Piracy needs a bottom up rethink and changes beyond making it impossible for traders to not get killed once interdicted, except at the goodwill of the attacker.

That will lead even proponents of Open Play like me to decide there's no point in being in Open any longer.

However it is worked the outcome of a pirate attempt has to have a reasonable skill based element. As you know - there is no counter to higher quality interdiction modules so a trader in a freighter will always lose. They can no longer punch an attacker in the face with dumbfires either.

Everything is weighted in favour of the attacker except for the submission cool-down and still people complain.

 

[Indy Original]

It is - if you're good enough and skilled enough using something other than gimballed beams and multi-cannon. No pirate should be running with gimballed weapons as they can be spoofed. If you are then - you're not a skilled pirate and of course you can't stop people running. Any would-be pirate running without a fixed weapon set forfeits their right to complain. If I was going to pirate I'd run with rails and cannons and when i was bounty hunting I made sure I could use them.

I want the option to play a pirate but the option isn't in the game. There's no career path, there's no reward and there's not even the thrill of combat.

i don't want to club seals. I want to earn my cargo.

FD can extend the cooldown to 30 seconds and people will still complain. And traders will still not be interested in talking because we have no belief that dropping cargo will end in anything but death because there is no actual penalty for player killing.

Piracy needs a bottom up rethink and changes beyond making it impossible for traders to not get killed once interdicted, except at the goodwill of the attacker.

That will lead even proponents of Open Play like me to decide there's no point in being in Open any longer.

However it is worked the outcome of a pirate attempt has to have a reasonable skill based element. As you know - there is no counter to higher quality interdiction modules so a trader in a freighter will always lose. They can no longer punch an attacker in the face with dumbfires either.

Everything is weighted in favour of the attacker except for the submission cool-down and still people complain.

When I said there was no time for player interaction, I meant communication, like asking the trader to drop some canisters. If you can type a message, and still take down a traders shields, target their cargo hold and take it out in less than 8 seconds, well, that's amazing.

You say that there is not even the thrill of combat, that you don't want to just club seals... but surely it depends on which traders you attack. If you interdict a Lakon, you will not get much combat from it - but if you interdict a Cobra, Asp, or Python, etc, then you may end up having a real fight with the trader. Some traders only want to trade, and so they buy flying bricks to do it in... but if FD fix the 'submit & escape' loophole, it will encourage some traders to come prepared for a fight in a more versatile ship, thus making piracy exciting, challenging and fun.

I agree that piracy, and especially player-killing, should come with a much more serious penalty... this would not only help to protect the lives of traders, it would also make bounty hunting more viable too. But the FSD cool-down after submitting to an interdiction needs to be lengthened as well... both of these things are required, so that both pirates and traders actually stand a chance.

Everything is weighted in favour of the attacker? If you are only talking about the interdiction, then yes, the attacker has an advantage over a Lakon. But traders have a whole host of options for avoiding interdictions completely, as I described in my post... if a trader chooses to play in Open, if they choose to fly a vulnerable ship, if they choose to go to an anarchy system, and THEN they get interdicted, then it stands to reason that they should be at a disadvantage because they were the one who took the risk of being pirated in the first place by making all of those decisions! But a pirate currently has no advantage at all, since the trader can simply escape with ease... and that's before we mention the fact that pirates also make less money, incur bounties that allow bounty hunters / police / aggressive traders / other pirates to attack them, have to waste time scooping cargo, and will probably get killed far more often than traders do... to say that 'everything is weighted in favour of the attacker' is simply not the case.

 

[Wescott]

There is one more point to consider - If the balance for traders is significantly skewed by making interdictions more costly that ultimately hurts NEW traders and in real terms increases the "lead" that players who have already generated large profits enjoy. Those who already have an Anaconda can continue to truck along without much fear, especially in mobius/solo, those who are working their way up from a T6 will face a longer slog than those who have gone before them.

Incidentally it will also push more players towards trading in an Asp/Clipper/Python, but i don't see that as a negative really.

So by your estimation a trade ship would then become so ineffective in its survivability FD should simply remove them from the game as a pretty much pointless waste of a pilots time and as such would be bypassed by the bulk of players as a no brainer and everyone would simply and only trade from ships that can be reasonably combat effective. So immediately down goes the in game variety and scope.

 

[tagos]

When I said there was no time for player interaction, I meant communication, like asking the trader to drop some canisters. If you can type a message, and still take down a traders shields, target their cargo hold and take it out in less than 8 seconds, well, that's amazing.

You say that there is not even the thrill of combat, that you don't want to just club seals... but surely it depends on which traders you attack. If you interdict a Lakon, you will not get much combat from it - but if you interdict a Cobra, Asp, or Python, etc, then you may end up having a real fight with the trader. Some traders only want to trade, and so they buy flying bricks to do it in... but if FD fix the 'submit & escape' loophole, it will encourage some traders to come prepared for a fight in a more versatile ship, thus making piracy exciting, challenging and fun.

I agree that piracy, and especially player-killing, should come with a much more serious penalty... this would not only help to protect the lives of traders, it would also make bounty hunting more viable too. But the FSD cool-down after submitting to an interdiction needs to be lengthened as well... both of these things are required, so that both pirates and traders actually stand a chance.

Everything is weighted in favour of the attacker? If you are only talking about the interdiction, then yes, the attacker has an advantage over a Lakon. But traders have a whole host of options for avoiding interdictions completely, as I described in my post... if a trader chooses to play in Open, if they choose to fly a vulnerable ship, if they choose to go to an anarchy system, and THEN they get interdicted, then it stands to reason that they should be at a disadvantage because they were the one who took the risk of being pirated in the first place by making all of those decisions! But a pirate currently has no advantage at all, since the trader can simply escape with ease... and that's before we mention the fact that pirates also make less money, incur bounties that allow bounty hunters / police / aggressive traders / other pirates to attack them, have to waste time scooping cargo, and will probably get killed far more often than traders do... to say that 'everything is weighted in favour of the attacker' is simply not the case.

I know what you meant and I explained why no-one is going to wait to hear what you say. Until the game makes player killing a serious crime we have to assume you're all killers and just run.

Trade ships are there for a reason. If you make them an Automatic I Lose ship then the game loses some detail. A good dedicated fighter should always win but the outcome should have a heavy weighting towards pilot skill and intelligence.

if a pirate chooses not to clear their bounties that's a choice not a disadvantage.

The whole pirating thing is borked so tinkering with cooldowns won't solve anything. Make it 30 seconds and the gimbal clowns will start complaining about chaff. Not that I'm against a longer cooldown as part of the changes.

But I've played enough PvP games to know that part of the solution to these sorts of issues is to get better. Rail guns and cannons will do serious damage in 3 seconds, let alone 8. The good pirates know that. The rest want their gimbals to do the job for them and they'll find that with chaff and a decent shield 30 seconds won't be enough and they'll still be here complaining instead of strapping on fixed weaponry and practising.

 

[Scimiter]

I have been playing about 4 weeks now, 2 of those weeks in "Open Play" I have never been interdicted by a "human pirate", okay I now trade 200+ light years away from the traffic, but never the less I think FD should cut the pirates a bit of slack, after all they do make the game more interesting, isn't Elite supposed to be dangerous?
I use mines as a defence against pirates, I keep firing those when I have been attacked by NPC's, not sure what damage they do as i jump soon as I get cooldown.
I trade and explore with an Asp and rarely fight as hull damage make it very expensive, being killed results in a 750,000 insurance bill to get it back lol.

 

[Stonecoldamason]

Very good question... one that tends to go unanswered.

Sorry, it does get answered, you still get interdicted in Solo, its not Open exclusive as well you know, perhaps introducing an anti-interdiction system, giving traders a bit of assistance. idk, I don't have a problem with the current system. I get interdicted alot in my Asp, 50/50 chance for the attacker, they don't know what I'm packing, the attacker risks are similar, loss of ship, usually a heavily insured one due to the 'a' mods, the trader, perhaps lower ship insurance but loss of cargo. Potentially an equal loss, most traders I would suggest drop cargo not wanted and keep the expensive stuff then thrust and run and hope for the best, I don't have a problem with the current mechanics as I mentioned in an earlier post.

 

[Indy Original]

I know what you meant and I explained why no-one is going to wait to hear what you say. Until the game makes player killing a serious crime we have to assume you're all killers and just run.

Trade ships are there for a reason. If you make them an Automatic I Lose ship then the game loses some detail. A good dedicated fighter should always win but the outcome should have a heavy weighting towards pilot skill and intelligence.

if a pirate chooses not to clear their bounties that's a choice not a disadvantage.

The whole pirating thing is borked so tinkering with cooldowns won't solve anything. Make it 30 seconds and the gimbal clowns will start complaining about chaff. Not that I'm against a longer cooldown as part of the changes.

But I've played enough PvP games to know that part of the solution to these sorts of issues is to get better. Rail guns and cannons will do serious damage in 3 seconds, let alone 8. The good pirates know that. The rest want their gimbals to do the job for them and they'll find that with chaff and a decent shield 30 seconds won't be enough and they'll still be here complaining instead of strapping on fixed weaponry and practising.

Trade ships don't have to be an automatic 'I lose' ship - a Lakon with good thrusters, a good shield, some shield cell banks and some chaff should definitely stand a good chance of escaping, if that is what the player want to do. But a trade ship should not really stand a chance in a fight... for that, you should need something like a Cobra, a ship that is designed to be able to defend itself (at the cost of some cargo space). This way, players who just want to trade quietly could do it in a dedicated trade ship in the high-security systems, where they should rarely if ever be attacked; but players who want to go to the more dangerous anarchies in search of bigger profits should need to buy Cobras or Pythons etc. Of course, if you want to take your Type 6 into an anarchy you can, and if you make it to the station you should reap a huge profit - but it should be a huge risk, of course.

Also, the vulnerability of the trade ships makes sense in another way, too - after all, a ship carrying a hundred tons of cargo could afford to drop a few tons for a pirate who interdicts it, so the Lakons don't have to fight at all... they can 'buy off' the pirates instead! It's just a different play-style, for different people.

As for pirates, I would not allow them to pay off bounties at all - once you get a price on your head, it stays there until somebody claims it! That might be a bit harsh, but it's what I would do... hopefully, that would dissuade people from player-killing in the first place. And if the pirates did come back on the forums complaining that 30 seconds wasn't long enough and chaff was overpowered, that would be ok - because they would be WRONG. However, at the moment, they are complaining that traders who submit and boost away practically cannot lose, and that's important, because they are RIGHT. It seems to me that this debate should not be about 'whether or not fixing interdictions is a good idea', and more about 'how to effectively discourage pirates from player-killing, after interdictions have been fixed'...

 

[tagos]

However, at the moment, they are complaining that traders who submit and boost away practically cannot lose, and that's important, because they are RIGHT. It seems to me that this debate should not be about 'whether or not fixing interdictions is a good idea', and more about 'how to effectively discourage pirates from player-killing, after interdictions have been fixed'...

But they're not right. What they mean is THEY aren't good enough to stop people running. But +rep for your post, I agree with most of it but I stand by my contention that a skilled pirate using rails and cannons can and do make running a lot more problematic.

 

[kapitankev]

If there's anything that makes me stop firing on a trader it's a cargo drop.

However I understand as I get interdicted myself from time to time, it's a pain tabbing through the menu to drop the right amount of the right type of cargo.
So...2 things....both of which would help stop the fight or flight instinct kicking in for both trader and pirate.

1 - We should be able to assign a set of barrels to be abandoned at the press of a key.
2 - We should have a bank of preset phrases we can issue, again at the press of a key.These should be broadcast to all in the instance so we don't even need to select who we're talking to.

 

[Indy Original]

But they're not right. What they mean is THEY aren't good enough to stop people running. But +rep for your post, I agree with most of it but I stand by my contention that a skilled pirate using rails and cannons can and do make running a lot more problematic.

Heh, you're a good person tagos, +1 rep for you too.

 

[Oddball_E8]

People use the Boost Away exploite because?........they don't want their 4 hours of grind to be lost to someone that will jsut destroy them if they stop..........so, they use the 100% safe exploit....boosting.........
..

They will NOT be "forced" in to interdicitons...........they will either 1. Go to Solo.......or 2. If NPC nerfs result in the same result, leave the game entirely...........
...
The game was "ok" on release, but it is slowly being turned in to a flat out shooter, and an incredibally unfair one for any trader, week one noob suddenly facing an A Grade Annaconda bought with credits "earned" through OTHER exploits used by early adopters..........So new traders are already at a DIS-Advantage........I mean, they have to play fair, try and trade, maybe do a rare run.......but all the early code exploits, used by the "poor pirates" to buy the most expensive ships in the game, now DEMAND that their boredom be fixed by givving tghem freew targets and a chance for others to progress......
...
FD should ditch the whole Pirate thing, or leave Wanted on you, for ever, so the rest can just blow you away........

Right, I'm gonna answer the two things I highligted here.
1: Boosting away is not an exploit. What we're talking about here is the utterly ridiculous 5 second cooldown you have on your Frameshift Drive if you submit to an interdiction. That means that you can jump away into supercruise before anyone can bring down your shields pretty much giving you a free pass from all interdictions.
2: Nobody in an Anaconda would be interdicting a week-old newbie trader for any piracy reasons. Hell, the price of fuel for pursuing that target alone is more costly than the target could ever provide in booty. Anyone that interdicts a newbie trader with an anaconda is doing so for completely different purposes, and it wouldn't matter if FD set the cooldown on the FSD to 0 seconds because that anaconda would annihilate the newbie trader in seconds.
3: The pirates complaining are NOT the pirates who have made fortunes through "early code exploits". It's the pirates that are in smaller ships like the viper or cobra that are complaining and those didn't make their money through exploits, they made it the hard way (the REAL hard way, not through grinding a trade route for days on end). Oh and as an added bonus, those "pirates" you refer to who have huge anacondas that they bought with money they got from "code exploits" are all former traders that are just bored.
So no, they're not "pirates". They're just trader playing pirate.

It is - if you're good enough and skilled enough using something other than gimballed beams and multi-cannon. No pirate should be running with gimballed weapons as they can be spoofed. If you are then - you're not a skilled pirate and of course you can't stop people running. Any would-be pirate running without a fixed weapon set forfeits their right to complain. If I was going to pirate I'd run with rails and cannons and when i was bounty hunting I made sure I could use them.

I want the option to play a pirate but the option isn't in the game. There's no career path, there's no reward and there's not even the thrill of combat.

i don't want to club seals. I want to earn my cargo.

FD can extend the cooldown to 30 seconds and people will still complain. And traders will still not be interested in talking because we have no belief that dropping cargo will end in anything but death because there is no actual penalty for player killing.

Piracy needs a bottom up rethink and changes beyond making it impossible for traders to not get killed once interdicted, except at the goodwill of the attacker.

That will lead even proponents of Open Play like me to decide there's no point in being in Open any longer.

However it is worked the outcome of a pirate attempt has to have a reasonable skill based element. As you know - there is no counter to higher quality interdiction modules so a trader in a freighter will always lose. They can no longer punch an attacker in the face with dumbfires either.

Everything is weighted in favour of the attacker except for the submission cool-down and still people complain.

That's some grade-a right there.
IF you had done any PvP combat, you'd know that ships of somewhat equal size and power have no chance in hell to take down the targets shields and prevent it from jumping away in just a few short seconds.
Doesn't matter if you have fixed weapons or not (oh and gimballed weapons work just fine against targets with countermeasures, you just unlock them and aim manually). The fixed weapons do not make THAT much more damage for it to matter.

And the reason people are complaining about the submission cooldown is because it is SUCH a huge advantage to the target that nothing else makes a difference.
Doesn't matter if you're the best pilot in the galaxy, doesn't matter if you have fixed weapons, doesn't matter if you have the best and biggest frame shift interdictor in the game.
That target will still jump away 7-10 seconds after you interdict them and you can't stop them unless you are VASTLY larger than them.

So Piracy through interdiction is basically relegated to pythons and anacondas interdicting haulers and T6's...

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

If there's anything that makes me stop firing on a trader it's a cargo drop.

However I understand as I get interdicted myself from time to time, it's a pain tabbing through the menu to drop the right amount of the right type of cargo.
So...2 things....both of which would help stop the fight or flight instinct kicking in for both trader and pirate.

1 - We should be able to assign a set of barrels to be abandoned at the press of a key.
2 - We should have a bank of preset phrases we can issue, again at the press of a key.These should be broadcast to all in the instance so we don't even need to select who we're talking to.

The main problem here is that "pirates" are bunched in with griefers and just plain killers for some reason.

A pirates main goal is always the cargo. Not the kill.

But then someone pops in and kills a player for fun and suddenly he's labeled a pirate too.

If I was a pirate, I'd let the target run if they dropped some cargo. Doesn't even matter what type of cargo really since it'd be 100% pure profit for me anyway.
And that's how many of the pirates I've met have behaved (yes, I've done some trading and got intercepted, try not to faint). I dropped some cargo, and they let me go.

The ones that didn't let me go never asked for anything and simply blew me up... I doubt they stopped to pick up the cargo I dropped either.
They were just plain killers.

 

[kapitankev]

People use the Boost Away exploite because?........they don't want their 4 hours of grind to be lost to someone that will jsut destroy them if they stop..........so, they use the 100% safe exploit....boosting.........
..

They will NOT be "forced" in to interdicitons...........they will either 1. Go to Solo.......or 2. If NPC nerfs result in the same result, leave the game entirely...........
...
The game was "ok" on release, but it is slowly being turned in to a flat out shooter, and an incredibally unfair one for any trader, week one noob suddenly facing an A Grade Annaconda bought with credits "earned" through OTHER exploits used by early adopters..........So new traders are already at a DIS-Advantage........I mean, they have to play fair, try and trade, maybe do a rare run.......but all the early code exploits, used by the "poor pirates" to buy the most expensive ships in the game, now DEMAND that their boredom be fixed by givving tghem freew targets and a chance for others to progress......
...
FD should ditch the whole Pirate thing, or leave Wanted on you, for ever, so the rest can just blow you away........

I'm pretty sure most pirates aren't interdicting sidewinders and eagles.....it's not worth the time. I can assure you we're on the lookout for larger prey. Your post is a gross exaggeration. If you get interdicted your best bet at the moment is to boost, sure. That def needs fixing though as player piracy is next to impossible right now.

Once it is fixed though your best bet is to boost, drop cargo, keep boosting.....

Later on it'd be nice to have, some new gadgets to help traders out....

I'm thinking...barrels with a timed explosion, what about that huh? the one thing from the old elite I miss is the smart bomb. I realise you can't really bring that back. But maybe in this form...enough to seriously damage a medium sized ship....

or limpet mines that actually work.

or cargo that messes with your ship somehow.....hacks the ship...I might be getting carried away. But still, fixing the interdictions opens up all kinds of fun....leaving them as they are just doesn't.

 

[Faerie]

I'd say that interdiction was fundamentally adversarial (it is a hostile action), but in the context of the game it cannot be fundamentally flawed as it is part of the inherent context. Elite has always had pirates/piracy/bad people - whether AI or, now, players. End. Of. Story.

I think perhaps you misunderstand me a little. What I meant was that interdiction as it currently stands is devisive, which I would interpret as a fundamental flaw as it polarises the community, which means it is a destructive element.

Furthermore, I would strongly dispute your claim that it can not be flawed. It may be a necessary mechanism, but it seems rather clumsily implemented when compared to the mechanism used to initiate encounters with other ships in the original game(s). I.E. You were dropped out of Torus Jump Drive (or Stardreamer in FE2) by another ship's proximity, which gave rise to mass locking. This took place at a much greater range (25km ?) than in ED, & the ship responsible could be anything - pirates, cops, or traders going about their business, so unlike interdiction, it was not automatically hostile.

This gave rise to some interesting gameplay as the distance between you gave you time to watch the responsible ship's behaviour for signs of hostility or innocence. It gave chance to make a run for it if the other ship(s) were hostile, or even turn the tables on a pirate gang by running until the gang became a string, with the smaller, faster ships being closest to you. This gave you the opportunity to turn & destroy them one by one, finally having the 'mothership' (usually a Python) at your mercy. I expect that when Wings come along, interdiction will mean having a whole pirate gang attacking you all at once. I don't see that ending well.

Yes, Elite has always had pirates/piracy/bad people, but encounters with them were random & gave you a greater choice of how you might react, unlike interdiction, in which you become the selected victim of someone without good intent. This turns it into a "Why me ?" situation instead of something that "just happens". Psychologically, that's much harder to deal with even from an NPC, & isn't mitigated by enjoyment of a 'cat & mouse' interdiction minigame because the current one is basically rubbish - I've escaped interdiction when I thought I'd lost the game & been interdicted when I was clearly winning !

 

[Oddball_E8]

I think perhaps you misunderstand me a little. What I meant was that interdiction as it currently stands is devisive, which I would interpret as a fundamental flaw as it polarises the community, which means it is a destructive element.

Furthermore, I would strongly dispute your claim that it can not be flawed. It may be a necessary mechanism, but it seems rather clumsily implemented when compared to the mechanism used to initiate encounters with other ships in the original game(s). I.E. You were dropped out of Torus Jump Drive (or Stardreamer in FE2) by another ship's proximity, which gave rise to mass locking. This took place at a much greater range (25km ?) than in ED, & the ship responsible could be anything - pirates, cops, or traders going about their business, so unlike interdiction, it was not automatically hostile.

This gave rise to some interesting gameplay as the distance between you gave you time to watch the responsible ship's behaviour for signs of hostility or innocence. It gave chance to make a run for it if the other ship(s) were hostile, or even turn the tables on a pirate gang by running until the gang became a string, with the smaller, faster ships being closest to you. This gave you the opportunity to turn & destroy them one by one, finally having the 'mothership' (usually a Python) at your mercy. I expect that when Wings come along, interdiction will mean having a whole pirate gang attacking you all at once. I don't see that ending well.

Yes, Elite has always had pirates/piracy/bad people, but encounters with them were random & gave you a greater choice of how you might react, unlike interdiction, in which you become the selected victim of someone without good intent. This turns it into a "Why me ?" situation instead of something that "just happens". Psychologically, that's much harder to deal with even from an NPC, & isn't mitigated by enjoyment of a 'cat & mouse' interdiction minigame because the current one is basically rubbish - I've escaped interdiction when I thought I'd lost the game & been interdicted when I was clearly winning !

Can you imagine the wailing and whining if every ship that came within a certain range dropped you out of SC?

 

[HectorW]

All of that sounds great, but is completely beyond the point of this thread.

FD is fixing the submission mechanics.
People are claiming that doing so is unfair to traders because then (and I'm pretty much quoting here) "traders have no way of escaping".
On the other side of the spectrum you have Pirates that currently have pretty much 0 chance of stopping their target.

So yes, the interdiction and piracy mechanics need major overhauls.
But that's not the current discussion.

Game is broken on many levels. Changing mechanics only in pirate favor will brake it further. We need mayor balancing. What you're proposing will make Lakons obsolete as flying in open will require combat ship, full PvP setup. Nobody will fly T 6,7,9 if he will be interdicted in every run with no chance of escaping. Only prey for pirate will be other pirates (and new players, but they will die out quickly).

And for those who want to push out more peaceful players from open and make ED PvP arena - for shame, you're being shortsighted and callous. We need more players in open not less. ED is not only for you.
Maybe it's you who should go try other games - Fractured Space, WoT, Warthunder etc. - there you have pure PvP arenas,
or do you like to shot only opponent who cant move and has no weapons to answer ?

 

[HectorW]

It is - if you're good enough and skilled enough using something other than gimballed beams and multi-cannon. No pirate should be running with gimballed weapons as they can be spoofed. If you are then - you're not a skilled pirate and of course you can't stop people running. Any would-be pirate running without a fixed weapon set forfeits their right to complain. If I was going to pirate I'd run with rails and cannons and when i was bounty hunting I made sure I could use them.

I want the option to play a pirate but the option isn't in the game. There's no career path, there's no reward and there's not even the thrill of combat.

i don't want to club seals. I want to earn my cargo.

FD can extend the cooldown to 30 seconds and people will still complain. And traders will still not be interested in talking because we have no belief that dropping cargo will end in anything but death because there is no actual penalty for player killing.

Piracy needs a bottom up rethink and changes beyond making it impossible for traders to not get killed once interdicted, except at the goodwill of the attacker.

That will lead even proponents of Open Play like me to decide there's no point in being in Open any longer.

However it is worked the outcome of a pirate attempt has to have a reasonable skill based element. As you know - there is no counter to higher quality interdiction modules so a trader in a freighter will always lose. They can no longer punch an attacker in the face with dumbfires either.

Everything is weighted in favour of the attacker except for the submission cool-down and still people complain.

yes, this
big +rep

 

[drwoo]

Game is broken on many levels. Changing mechanics only in pirate favor will brake it further. We need mayor balancing. What you're proposing will make Lakons obsolete as flying in open will require combat ship, full PvP setup. Nobody will fly T 6,7,9 if he will be interdicted in every run with no chance of escaping. Only prey for pirate will be other pirates (and new players, but they will die out quickly).

And for those who want to push out more peaceful players from open and make ED PvP arena - for shame, you're being shortsighted and callous. We need more players in open not less. ED is not only for you.
Maybe it's you who should go try other games - Fractured Space, WoT, Warthunder etc. - there you have pure PvP arenas,
or do you like to shot only opponent who cant move and has no weapons to answer ?

If you fly a T6,7,or 9 with zero weapons, and no shields, who's fault is that exactly? Because people CHOOSE to not arm themselves in some way, it's somehow the pvpers fault?

 

[tagos]

If you fly a T6,7,or 9 with zero weapons, and no shields, who's fault is that exactly? Because people CHOOSE to not arm themselves in some way, it's somehow the pvpers fault?

It doesnt matter what a t6 or 7 carries. A competent pilot in a Viper can kill it in seconds. But it's not the competent ones complaining that piracy isn't easy enough yet.