Despite Enginner 'improvements', unlocking engineers is still a pain...

After the much lauded (by FD at least) so-called improvements to RNGineers in Beta 3.0, the fact is that FD have failed miserably to address one of the most negative aspects of engineers; that being the fact that some engineers are locked behind other engineers and then require a ridiculous amount of 'hoop-jumping' in order to access their services.

Whilst appreciating the fact that Sandro and his team have to account to shareholders for the number of hours players are logged-in, it is a disgrace that the above engineers merry-go-round has not only not been addressed, but also the fact that it appears not even to have been considered in Beyond. In fact, it has not been mentioned in any streams or posts by FD.

Going back as far as 2016, one of the biggest complaints about engineers was the fact that to unlock them was - and still is - a real pain, and continues to be so. And before the white knights and good old Max Factor - whose posts can sometimes be informative and whose opinions I respect - start to tell me, "You don't have to engineer if you don't want to...", let me just say that without engineered modules, most of the ships in ED will get blown out of space much sooner than later; something of which new players become aware very quickly.

I fell into the trap of engineers early on but have never progressed beyond G3 Dirty Drives or a G1 power plant and G5 FSD, etc, simply because to unlock Palin or the others seems to me to be a pointless time-sink and very disrespectful of the limited time in which I have to play and enjoy ED.

The fact that this aspect of engineers had not been improved in Beyond (instead we have material brokers with exorbitant exchange rates) is imo a disrespectful slant on those of us who have spent more than a thousand hours in game but who still have the integrity to avoid being forced by FD into certain activities in which we have no desire to participate.

As always, 'Sandro's law' says, "Play the game your way, blaze your own trail...as long as it is the way and the trail of which we approve and which we sanction."

Your thoughts please..even white knights!
 
Here, I think you dropped this.

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It doesn't take that long. I unlocked every useful engineer from zero over a week of fairly casual play.
The longest parts of unlocking are just the material collection, which feels like a different issue since obviously actually using the engineers will require far more of that.

Most games don't let you get away with only engaging with 20% of its systems, not sure what would make elite special.
 
I'm pretty sure that I've said EXACTLY the same thing before...
The idea behind the Engineers WASN'T that they're a race...to max out all your important modules/slots/weapons to G5 as quickly as possible...but they were to be acquired gradually, organically through regular gameplay...I don't think the intention was ever to see g5 modules across the board become the standard "meta"
(You can argue that Frontier being Strategy/Worldbuilding/Space Flight Game designers...DIDN'T fully understand the stats based min/max mentality of MMO players being more familiar with regular gameplayers...but that's another story)
The argument you don't NEED them is a valid one...there are no Gameplay activities locked away UNLESS you've got ENgineer modules...and arguable VERY few if ANY NPCs that can't be defeated without Engineering...even for those that are tricky to "bite-off" without upgrading past regular A Grade modules...it doesn't seem unreasonable that some encounters will simply be TOO TOUGH and you have to evade...unless you GENUINELY believe you should be the BEST pilot in the TOUGHEST ship in the whole Universe...
PVP is a slightly different story...but if thats your bag unfortunately "they broke it" (with ridiculous stat chasing) so "they'll have to live with it...
 
I think you're making the process out to be much more tedious than it is. The most annoying unlock is Qwent, but even he isn't so bad now; I was able to acquire about 30 modular terminals in one play session by rescuing station evacuees.
 
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It's not too hard. I recently took one of my alts from zero engineering to G5 FSD and G5 DD in 2 days. Yeah, it was a bit of a grind, but 2 days isn't insurmountable.

Granted, I already knew how to unlock the key ones and which order to do it efficiently. I suppose a new player would find it a bit more challenging. Still, I did it in the early days and didn't even think about rage quitting or anything.

The new engineers will be an improvement on the current system. I'm looking forward to redoing my modules.
 
When I was a new player, I liked doing the unlocks. It showed me around the bubble and got me to do almost all the things Elite has to offer as a game. Now I not only have all engineers unlocked (except the dangerous/elite rank locked one), I also know what I enjoy the most in the galaxy and how to deal with the things I don't enjoy as much.

I am quite certain engineering isn't designed for old players that already have all the toys and just want to get G5 everything done asap. It's designed with new players in mind who are on their way getting somewhere and maybe like having some guidance or ticks to check along the way. I think it's what they mean when they say they have the future of the game in mind while designing engineering. Got to cater to new players. Cosmetic sales can only get you so far.
 
I don't understand why people have a problem with ENG. They are so easy to unlock and reach grade 5 with. With the new beta changes, they are even easier. With the exception of Lori Jameson, I unlocked all of mine in a couple of months casual play.

If you want a real grind, go back 10 years to a WoW battleground (Warsung Gulch, Arathi Basin, Alterac Valley) and play as Alliance. Back in those days, Alliance lost every match...
 
Its good. I have one remaining to unlock. Its taken me all over and I have got grips with alsorts including mining.
If it wasn't for engineers I wouldn't done or known about loads of things.

As for new players, we where all there once. We have all done it.
 
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5000 ly then a suicide back*?

Walk in the park. You might actually enjoy it :)

----------------

EDIT: * I'm not recommending suiciding back, hopefully you'll stay out a while longer and plan a round trip route back. But it is the "easiest" option if you really can't hack it :D

ryoUsQq.jpg
 
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I've unlocked a few engineers but stopped at Mr Qwent as I felt that particular unlock was a grind and I simply couldn't be bothered with it.

I don't mind unlocking stuff or having to put some effort into unlocking content, that concept is fine, as long as the effort I put in involves some fun or interesting gameplay. However some of the engineer unlocks are simply not fun or engaging on any level. Some of it is a shopping list of rare items that spawn a handful at a time, or grinding rank with some obscure faction I have no interest in or a combination of these.

The 'mining painite' unlock I quite enjoyed, the modular terminals unlock....forget it...just no way.

So for me I've left the stuff I don't like, maybe i'll get around to it one day when I feel time rich.

I don't think these unlocks were that well thought through, they could have chosen a myriad different ways to unlock engineers but in some cases they chose to bore us to death. I know you're not allowed to say that on here, apparently it's all fine and you are legally obliged to like every mind numbing chore FDev sets for us.
 
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The fact that this aspect of engineers had not been improved in Beyond (instead we have material brokers with exorbitant exchange rates) is imo a disrespectful slant on those of us who have spent more than a thousand hours in game but who still have the integrity to avoid being forced by FD into certain activities in which we have no desire to participate.

As always, 'Sandro's law' says, "Play the game your way, blaze your own trail...as long as it is the way and the trail of which we approve and which we sanction."

Your thoughts please..even white knights!

1) You may want to refrain from insinuating everyone who uses engineers has no integrity.
2) Playing your way doesnt mean you wont get consequences for the choices you make. If you only want to do a small part, you only get a small part of the rewards. Nothing to do with 'sanctioning' or 'approving', its more about 'common sense'. ;)

A shame, because in principle I agree that the unlock mechanism should be improved. But you go so overboard with offensive snark and hyperbole that it kinda makes it hard to focus on whatever point you may have had. Why not just drop that crap and start by saying "Instead of X I would prefer Y because of Z." It is a much more constructive approach.
 
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I might be a bit unusual as I will be unlocking the same engineers again and again, so the tasks get repetitive. I've never been a fan of the unlocking tasks, so many remain unlocked. Those I need, I unlock, the others I ignore. In a game that's supposed to be an open world experience, having to do a specific task just to unlock something grates. If there were several routes it would have been better. It is the one issue I had with the Engineers and I don't now expect anything to change, they won't be looking at them again. :(
 
After the much lauded (by FD at least) so-called improvements to RNGineers in Beta 3.0, the fact is that FD have failed miserably to address one of the most negative aspects of engineers; that being the fact that some engineers are locked behind other engineers and then require a ridiculous amount of 'hoop-jumping' in order to access their services.

Whilst appreciating the fact that Sandro and his team have to account to shareholders for the number of hours players are logged-in, it is a disgrace that the above engineers merry-go-round has not only not been addressed, but also the fact that it appears not even to have been considered in Beyond. In fact, it has not been mentioned in any streams or posts by FD.

Going back as far as 2016, one of the biggest complaints about engineers was the fact that to unlock them was - and still is - a real pain, and continues to be so. And before the white knights and good old Max Factor - whose posts can sometimes be informative and whose opinions I respect - start to tell me, "You don't have to engineer if you don't want to...", let me just say that without engineered modules, most of the ships in ED will get blown out of space much sooner than later; something of which new players become aware very quickly.

I fell into the trap of engineers early on but have never progressed beyond G3 Dirty Drives or a G1 power plant and G5 FSD, etc, simply because to unlock Palin or the others seems to me to be a pointless time-sink and very disrespectful of the limited time in which I have to play and enjoy ED.

The fact that this aspect of engineers had not been improved in Beyond (instead we have material brokers with exorbitant exchange rates) is imo a disrespectful slant on those of us who have spent more than a thousand hours in game but who still have the integrity to avoid being forced by FD into certain activities in which we have no desire to participate.

As always, 'Sandro's law' says, "Play the game your way, blaze your own trail...as long as it is the way and the trail of which we approve and which we sanction."

Your thoughts please..even white knights!

I unlocked a great deal of the engineers in the game and it was never a pain for me. Took some time, yeah, but that's kind of the way it's supposed to be. I mean, okay, if you are a dedicated PvP player you of course want to be on top of the food chain as fast as you can, but did it ever occur to you that this is just self made stress and not the game?

Same rules for everybody. Unlocking engineers, and also engineering, is supposed to take time, and for me it also happened along the way. I unlocked quent and Palin in three days when I wasn't even trying very hard. Just did some missions for Sirius, kept looking for Modular Terminals as a mission reward and a friendly Commander also gave me a few on top.

Patience is the key to this game, and in my opinion that's something that should never change.
 
We need this slogan on the game launcher.

Admit it, if you would get a stupid achievement, or a trophy, or another silly replacement for a feeling of accomplishment you wouldn't complain. That's exactly how most other games do it. Elite doesn't, along with many other stupid systems that are just there for providing sweets to kindergarten children.
 
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