Despite Enginner 'improvements', unlocking engineers is still a pain...

Presumably, that's part of the way it's "supposed" to work.

You're supposed to just potter along, doing your own thing, and then you do something which gets you "noticed" by the relevant engineer and they crawl out of the woodwork to offer their services.

Course, gamers being the sort of people they are, that was never going to work out because (most) gamers like to unlock as many toys as possible.

Except that absolutely is NOT how the more advanced RNGineer slot machines DO work.

They REQUIRE a targeted effort to unlock. Fujin Tea. Kamitra Cigars. You cant just putter around and still deliver fifty of these to a single RNGineer to gamble at their slot machine. You HAVE TO make a targeted effort.

And that means wading through the boring wait walls and time sinks FDEV has erected to try and distract from the FACT that they have not even made an effort to create engaging game play for the past 3 years.
 
There are only a very few Engineers that I found to have a little pain involved in unlocking them:

Liz Ryder - Friendly with the Eurybia Blue Mafia

Zach Nemo - Invite from Party of Yoru

Marco Qwent - Sirius Invitation

Bill Turner - Ailoth permit required AND mine 50 tons of Bromellite.


Liz.. ok, honestly, getting to Friendly with any faction just isn't that hard, it's just a little annoying.

Zach - Not much of a Party, and these are just tedious.

Marco - I just happened to be trying to do this during the demi-legendary Auto-Mission-Fail bug's lifespan. But it really didn't take all that long, it was just extra annoying.

Bill - I never wanted to punch someone in the face quite as much. Then I came to realize he did G5 Plasma Accelerator mods, so was forgiven for being such a pain.

Even Palin wasn't that hard. I just had to go on 13 real-day-long scan-fest across the galaxy. At least I took a long-range passenger for an added bonus, and it only took 6 hours to get back. And I learned I cannot do Exploration with the current system mechanics. This was confirmed prior to the 2.4 launch, when I once again ventured into the void, 6200 Ly this time, every bit as painful as my previous venture, but at least I wasn't home when the thargoids came calling.

That's a good summary of the engineers that needed unlocking...

Repped.
 
This is the my only point of contention- and perhaps concession, in regard to the implementation.

I've got a hold that can carry 200 tons of cargo, yet no matter how long I sit at the market waiting for Fujin Tea, I'll need to come back 5 times, indeed. Hell I'd settle for having a timer, perhaps even having to log completely out of the game and wait for an hour or two for the market to "refresh" itself based on a "limited supply of rare goods".

It's an arbitrary restriction which has no sensible implementation, no doubt about it. Challenges are indeed necessary... but nonsensical ones are not.

THIS can be completely mitigated by a friend, a Collector Limpet controller and a few limpets.

Just have your friend fetch your tea and drop them for you.

You'd think, by the way these commodities are quantity-limited, that somewhere in the galaxy, someone figured out how to make meth out of them.
 
Except that absolutely is NOT how the more advanced RNGineer slot machines DO work.

They REQUIRE a targeted effort to unlock. Fujin Tea. Kamitra Cigars. You cant just putter around and still deliver fifty of these to a single RNGineer to gamble at their slot machine. You HAVE TO make a targeted effort.

And that means wading through the boring wait walls and time sinks FDEV has erected to try and distract from the FACT that they have not even made an effort to create engaging game play for the past 3 years.

That's not the issue I was discussing though.

That issue was the one of discovering how to actually find the things engineers might be asking for, relying only on in-game sources.

What you're alluding to is whether the activities, themselves, are entertaining.
Personally, I rather enjoyed unlocking most of the engineers.
 

verminstar

Banned
Well, the information does exist in-game, insofar as the objects are in-game to be found.

Presumably, the dev's envisaged people getting engineer invites and then, eventually, stumbling across the location where the relevant item was to be found and then thinking "Ah! Now I've found these things I can go and unlock that engineer!"

Not saying I approve of it but it seems like that's the only explanation for the way things happen within the game.

There's a bit of an art to introducing "tutorials" into a game without making it obvious that they are tutorials and it's something FDev isn't terribly good at.

Now we have chained-missions in the game, it wouldn't hurt if there were a whole heap of missions which trigger a "tutorial" as a set of chained-missions which educates the player about how to do something.
For example, you find a mission that requires you buy Lavian Brandy and deliver it to a station.
As soon as you complete a mission like that for the first time you get a chained-mission to go and buy other Rares and deliver them as well.
Work through the entire chain of missions and the location of every Rare would be known to you.

That way it'd still be "murky" but once you stumbled across the right sort of activity, the game would guide you through the activity via chained-missions.

Im not gonna try and second guess what FD originally thought would happen, Im not even remotely qualified...I just say what I see ingame, and only ingame. I am aware of how limited I am by not using the many resources on this and other forums and seemingly standing by a principle that if its not in the game, its not worth knowing...thats not how I personally play games.

In fact I would tip me hat in respect at the efforts of many who have created such guides and tutorials, but the point then is that yer simply emulating someone elses experiences...yer no longer playing yer own game, yer playing someene elses game...maybe its me just being silly and there are some very decent souls here who take the time to explain in more detail away from the forums which can be heated at times...saracsm doesnt communicate well at times, fun though it is to use.

My point was really that its not easy to find out a lotta even basic things in the game without either a helluva lotta trial and error, or a helluva lotta time already played and an overuse of either a notepad or bookmarks...sorta a mixture of all the above fer me personally. One can only hope frontier are fast learners as it can be frustrating in coming here to ask basic questions that shouldnt need to be asked outside a game in the first place.

A point which is somewhat different than that of the OP...and yet not so much different at all. Unlocking them...is a pita. I have grown rather fond of them, but unlocking them...it really is just more frustrating than anything...different reasons same summary.

That being said, I come from the old skool where one had to train an account fer 9 months real time just to be able to fly a ship, and another 6 to be any good at it...grind alone isnt my issue here. Perversely, if Im in the right frame of mind, I enjoy it which means Im in a small minority of players...the ones who eventually unlock everything simply because its there. But theres a fine line between a steep learning curve, and a curve that bounces ye out of a game to find the answers ^
 
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Bill - I never wanted to punch someone in the face quite as much. Then I came to realize he did G5 Plasma Accelerator mods, so was forgiven for being such a pain.

You see... this is the crazy thing for me.

Why... oh WHY does this guy need the Bromelite? He does PLASMA ACCELERATORS.

He should require you to perform some epic feat of combat.

Fit a ship with all plasma accelerators, and over heat it to 300 percent and still win the fight against an elite pilot or something. I don't know, whatever, but something combat related.

Preferably using plasma accelerators.
 
I tried the new engineering system in beta; it's actually not bad, if a bit grindy.

That's the thing. It was already grindy, but there was a balance between material hunting and engineering. Now, it's a full time engineer mat hunt. Yeah, the mat traders help a little, and the increased mat limits help a little, but their sole existence is to make the new ultra grindy system (slightlyt) more palatable, so what's the point? Just more doofing around every time you want to engineer a ship. Plus, now, everybody ultimately winds up with the same build.
 
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