Developer Journal: Scaling

[Swjosdotschka]

Yes, they were to high from the start.

Maybe. But on both sides. There were some communication issues in my opinion. You just don't use a word like seamless when it's not seamless. You don't use realistic genetic, when the genetic is not realistic at all. People discussed about these things in the forum and it would have been a good move, if Frontier would have steped in there and guided expectations a bit better. There seem to be no "no" or "this won't be implemented like that" in the communication to not sound negative, but in my opinion an clear "no" is sometimes better for a company than letting it run loose to avoid lowering expectations.

On the other hand, some players expected a NASA-programmed game for a few bucks and instead of communicating with a company that is really good in reacting to feedback, they dumped it, sometimes with pretty childish anger. And they forget that this game had to come out eventually, to earn enough money to support it further. You can not work for 10 years on a game to make it perfect on release. Workers need to get paid.

I'm afraid, missleaded and not met expectations are a reason why the interest in the game droped so drastically.Which, in all honesty. worries me a lot. I have just once in my life loved a game so much as I love Planet Zoo and I wish it to be part of my life with fresh content regularly for at least 4 years. In my opinion, we have a great, almost perfect, base in front of us to build on and Planet Zoo has so much potential to be perfect for everyone one day. But everyone, on both sides, still has to learn a few things. Patience on the player-side. More honest communication on the companies side. And balancing some features a bit (I'm looking at you, polar bear requirement and shop-needs.)

 

[paul78]

I have not noticed scaling to be honest but I never payed really close attention but it did seem that babies would grow straight to adult. Is it the end of the world for me? Not really. I was much more disappointed with no variation in animals or at least only some which they said they’d implement into game btw. Zt2 was the same way animals grew from baby to adulthood. So this doesn’t bother me at all really still a great game. I usually turn off the baby options simply because of the style I play the game. But I’ve got to say it’s a shame all the negative backlash frontier has took since release. Here isn’t so bad but steam is terrible and I’ve got to say they simply don’t deserve it. Everyday people complaining about stuff wrong when 70% of the time they’re playing the game wrong. I was severely disappointed in frontier with zoo tycoon 2013 but jwe, planet coaster, and now planet zoo frontier has really done a great job. Sure there’s always stuff u wished made it into game but that’s with every game really.

 

[Cocolori]

There are definitely animals in game that grow throughout their lifetime. There was a discussion in the general forums a little while ago with some pics of some very big crocs which grow with age. We always knew juvenile to adult was going to be a transformation not seamless

 

[Swjosdotschka]

I have not noticed scaling to be honest but I never payed really close attention but it did seem that babies would grow straight to adult. Is it the end of the world for me? Not really. I was much more disappointed with no variation in animals or at least only some which they said they’d implement into game btw. Zt2 was the same way animals grew from baby to adulthood. So this doesn’t bother me at all really still a great game. I usually turn off the baby options simply because of the style I play the game. But I’ve got to say it’s a shame all the negative backlash frontier has took since release. Here isn’t so bad but steam is terrible and I’ve got to say they simply don’t deserve it. Everyday people complaining about stuff wrong when 70% of the time they’re playing the game wrong. I was severely disappointed in frontier with zoo tycoon 2013 but jwe, planet coaster, and now planet zoo frontier has really done a great job. Sure there’s always stuff u wished made it into game but that’s with every game really.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for this post! I agree with every word you wrote. (Happens often, I must say. I like your posts )

 

[Firestar97]

I think if the "Problem" is that juvenile Animals aren't growing, in my Opinion it would be better if they first make the additional Textures for Animals. Especially because they announced individual Textures but they only announced that adult Animals are growing (even though it would make Sense if they would implement growing for juvenile Animals too)

 

[paul78]

@Urufu1997 your right I got a lion pride in a little zoo I’m doing just to monitor they’re generations in time. My exhibit started with two females and one male. They had two babies and both never grew through the juvenile stage and reached full size at 3. Like I said I’m not too disappointed by this I’m having fun just watching how their group evolves. Once the baby male became a adult he and the father were about to fight so I released the dad in the wild at 12 yrs old in real life it’d be like a death sentence with him well past his prime. Anyway I now have 9 lions and am having fun just doing this and hoping to get my first white lion. I also started one with two cheetah just for fun.

 

[Firestar97]

I hope they will at least someday add a Stage between juvenile and adult to some Animals. I think it would be great to see a not completely grown male Lion with a short Mane

 

[Swjosdotschka]

Yeah, a stage in between would be cool. But to be honest, I guess there are more important priorities to "rescue" that game and make it fun for those players that are not as hyped as we are. I feel like one important thing is to look at what the game was advertised for and work on that.
Animals shouls act more lifelike. Interact with one another more, showing individual personalities (was advertised but every animal in a species actually acts the same. They probably meant "every species " in their communication instead of "every animal", but things like that get players frustrated. I as well would like to see a difference between two gorilla females for instance, to connect more. Simple stats that doesn't really effect game play just isn't what you define as individualism.
Variants in fur was promised, is worked on and will hopefully make breeding more interesting.
Animals with a climbing need should use climbing structures better.
List to be continued.

As I said, I love this game. If it was just about me, I would never let it go and have it as a hobby for the rest of my live. But that is probably because I somehow are more of a builder than a player. And why is that? Because I am an animal nerd. And if you are really into animal behaviour, genetic, breeding management in zoos, enriching etc. the animals fall short. They are beautiful. But clones of each other. Moving decorations for your beautiful habitats. But they should be the main focus, just like Sims in the Sims. (Which also drops on interested because of shallow personalities since Sims 4. Both games have the same problem.)

In my opinion, personality and individualism should come before creating complete new models as in new life stages. That would make sure, that Planet Zoo gets on its feet again and will be a successful game for years to come. More concentration on the animals, less on micro management and less passive aggressive education. (Polar bear requirements not being life like, forcing us to use soeakers everywhere, forcing us to change enrichment every 10 minutes).

Sorry for getting carried away. I just hope detailed feedback helps both sides give my favourite game a new chance.

 

[Firestar97]

Yeah, a stage in between would be cool. But to be honest, I guess there are more important priorities to "rescue" that game and make it fun for those players that are not as hyped as we are. I feel like one important thing is to look at what the game was advertised for and work on that.
Animals shouls act more lifelike. Interact with one another more, showing individual personalities (was advertised but every animal in a species actually acts the same. They probably meant "every species " in their communication instead of "every animal", but things like that get players frustrated. I as well would like to see a difference between two gorilla females for instance, to connect more. Simple stats that doesn't really effect game play just isn't what you define as individualism.
Variants in fur was promised, is worked on and will hopefully make breeding more interesting.
Animals with a climbing need should use climbing structures better.
List to be continued.

As I said, I love this game. If it was just about me, I would never let it go and have it as a hobby for the rest of my live. But that is probably because I somehow are more of a builder than a player. And why is that? Because I am an animal nerd. And if you are really into animal behaviour, genetic, breeding management in zoos, enriching etc. the animals fall short. They are beautiful. But clones of each other. Moving decorations for your beautiful habitats. But they should be the main focus, just like Sims in the Sims. (Which also drops on interested because of shallow personalities since Sims 4. Both games have the same problem.)

In my opinion, personality and individualism should come before creating complete new models as in new life stages. That would make sure, that Planet Zoo gets on its feet again and will be a successful game for years to come. More concentration on the animals, less on micro management and less passive aggressive education. (Polar bear requirements not being life like, forcing us to use soeakers everywhere, forcing us to change enrichment every 10 minutes).

Sorry for getting carried away. I just hope detailed feedback helps both sides give my favourite game a new chance.

I agree. They should bring the Stuff they've advertised into the Game. I think maybe they are already working on it.
I want a Gorilla with Fur that is maybe a little more brown instead of black or a Zebra that is a bit more aggressive. Animals would be way more life-like when this is implemented

 

[paul78]

I agree with Swjosdotschka I also love playing this game as is. That’s not to say I don’t want more content and improvements but like I said this is the game I’ve been waiting for a long time. Zt2 was great with mods galore but I can’t build with half the capabilities that pz allows. The animals are so life like for example if you’ve seen the way a Bengal Tiger kind of struts through the forest frontier really nailed it with their tigers. I think variants when released will help improve the game. The scaling mod even if for certain animals will also improve people’s expectations. And the one thing frontier can do besides more optimization is capitalize on dlc. New rigs with new mechanics on certain animals will go a long way with the community. I fully believe frontier is more than capable and will just have to wait and see what the game becomes in 2-3 yrs.

 

[Swjosdotschka]

And the one thing frontier can do besides more optimization is capitalize on dlc. New rigs with new mechanics on certain animals will go a long way with the community. I fully believe frontier is more than capable and will just have to wait and see what the game becomes in 2-3 yrs.

I also have full trust in them to be able to make this game go forward and develope into something even a lot better than it's base. But with all the negativity lately, even among the YouTubeinfluencers, I sometimes almost panic that the numbres for this game make them not invest in it as much as we'd like. Not invest as much as they did in Planco, just because Plan Zoo had a rocket start and a deep fall, whereas Planet Coaster, as far as I know, had a pretty steady time. I'm afraid the numbres will be interpret wrong by the people financially involved. As if it's a matter of players being not interested in that game. But in my opinion that is clearly not the case. I guess both parties, the developers and the gamers that are currently not loving / playing this game, need to step back a bit and work together on communicating with each other. And bby communicating I don't mean "YoU LiED aT uS, I wIlL nEvEr PlAyThAT gAMe aGaIn!"

Frontier has been so great in reacting to feedback ever since launch. I hope that and the patience of players pays out in the end.

And now I'm off to giving them some game statostics Play that game until my PC begs for mercy.

 

[GrimCamel]

Hi GrimCamel! Scaling as described in this Developer Journal is in the game. What part are you needing an update on exactly, or what can we explain better ? Thanks!

I could swear there was some sort of content stating there would be a seamless growth with no obvious juvenal/adult stages but I can't find it so it might be the case wherever this was mentioned it was edited out at a later time. I remember hyping this so much and thinking during the beta that the stages were only temporarily.
And to what is written here "Scaling really helps bring Planet Zoo to life; it shows your animal growing throughout its life" What scaling? There is none, only the genetical difference between adult individuals. "Indeed, your animals gradually grow throughout their adult life." No they do not? I would have loved to see this in slow-growing animals like crocs etc but no. "This is all happening dynamically in-game, even as you watch them! Of course it’ll be too gradual to see but all of our animal technology is adapting on the fly as they change in size" Again, no dynamic, gradual growth that happens all the time that's so sudden we cant see. The text that tells us how old they are increases its number but thats not growing. A baby model swapping over to an adult model is anything than what is described here.

This entire gradual growth system that we paid for when we pre-ordered the game, I want an update on it. Did it get scrapped? If so I'd like a clear public statement about it because right now it just seems like misleading marketing which I know is frown upon by the law in many countries. If it's not scrapped is it planned or in the works?
As a pre-ordering customer, I would like to know. I've gone from almost religiously supporting this game and promoting it due to all the good things I've read before release but the lack of communication about this one feature have made my loyalty drop tremendously.
Gradual growth to me doesn't seem like an out of your scope feature to develop since this is not an indie studio with super limited funds.
Sorry if I come by as hostile but I just want answers and I would like to have my faith in you as developers restored

 

[Firestar97]

I could swear there was some sort of content stating there would be a seamless growth with no obvious juvenal/adult stages but I can't find it so it might be the case wherever this was mentioned it was edited out at a later time. I remember hyping this so much and thinking during the beta that the stages were only temporarily.
And to what is written here "Scaling really helps bring Planet Zoo to life; it shows your animal growing throughout its life" What scaling? There is none, only the genetical difference between adult individuals. "Indeed, your animals gradually grow throughout their adult life." No they do not? I would have loved to see this in slow-growing animals like crocs etc but no. "This is all happening dynamically in-game, even as you watch them! Of course it’ll be too gradual to see but all of our animal technology is adapting on the fly as they change in size" Again, no dynamic, gradual growth that happens all the time that's so sudden we cant see. The text that tells us how old they are increases its number but thats not growing. A baby model swapping over to an adult model is anything than what is described here.

This entire gradual growth system that we paid for when we pre-ordered the game, I want an update on it. Did it get scrapped? If so I'd like a clear public statement about it because right now it just seems like misleading marketing which I know is frown upon by the law in many countries. If it's not scrapped is it planned or in the works?
As a pre-ordering customer, I would like to know. I've gone from almost religiously supporting this game and promoting it due to all the good things I've read before release but the lack of communication about this one feature have made my loyalty drop tremendously.
Gradual growth to me doesn't seem like an out of your scope feature to develop since this is not an indie studio with super limited funds.
Sorry if I come by as hostile but I just want answers and I would like to have my faith in you as developers restored

As they mentioned for some reason only adult Animals are growing until a specific Age. I think the best Way to see it yourself is to buy a young Saltwater Crocodile and after some Time you can see it if you go into Genetics and click on physical characteristics. You will see a different Size after some Years. If the Difference is big enough you can even see it without going into Genetics

 

[GrimCamel]

As they mentioned for some reason only adult Animals are growing until a specific Age. I think the best Way to see it yourself is to buy a young Saltwater Crocodile and after some Time you can see it if you go into Genetics and click on physical characteristics. You will see a different Size after some Years. If the Difference is big enough you can even see it without going into Genetics

I've been playing with saltwaters since release and I do not see the difference. A fresh 14 y/o male has the same size as my decades old male. You sure youre not thinking about genetical differences?

 

[Firestar97]

I've been playing with saltwaters since release and I do not see the difference. A fresh 14 y/o male has the same size as my decades old male. You sure youre not thinking about genetical differences?

If you're so sure it isn't visible, I will watch 2 100% Size Crocodiles of different Ages next to each other to be completely sure it is really like this.

Edit : OK, that's weird, I was so sure I was watching my Crocodiles slowly grow (changing Numbers in physical characteristics) but I just brought 2 Saltwater Crocodiles of different Ages into a specially constructed Enclosure and they both were 5,80 Meters long. 1 was 94 Years old and the other one was 14 Years old.
Maybe it happened but there is a Bug that deactivated it

I would really like to know if it is possible for me to get a new Size Record or if a male Saltwater Crocodile can't get bigger than 5,80m. I breed them almost since the Beginning and my males with 100% Size always are 5,80 m big

 

[AlexVonHumbug]

If you're so sure it isn't visible, I will watch 2 100% Size Crocodiles of different Ages next to each other to be completely sure it is really like this.

Edit : OK, that's weird, I was so sure I was watching my Crocodiles slowly grow (changing Numbers in physical characteristics) but I just brought 2 Saltwater Crocodiles of different Ages into a specially constructed Enclosure and they both were 5,80 Meters long. 1 was 94 Years old and the other one was 14 Years old.
Maybe it happened but there is a Bug that deactivated it

I would really like to know if it is possible for me to get a new Size Record or if a male Saltwater Crocodile can't get bigger than 5,80m. I breed them almost since the Beginning and my males with 100% Size always are 5,80 m big

that makes the record slide very rediculous ^^. so i was lucky, that i got the first biggest taiwanese black baer? ^^ and nobody will ever get a bigger one? so i am finally part of a hereditary elite, only the guillotine can change that.^^