Not really. What we do know is that you can influence a Coriolis and Orbis with 3 system influence buildings to change it's market. At least this is what all the ones that we found with a non-colony econmy have in common. And there are very, very few of these.
"Development Level >>"? Figuring out what all these numbers do.
- Thread starter Ian Doncaster
- Start date
Based on the posts of this thread, I'm going to post some hypotheses (may be false or half-right, but it would help if we had examples to confirm or not).
Hypotheses:
1) System Economy Influence means the facility can influence another Colony facility
2) Facility Economy is the economy of the market
3) The System economy (displayed in the galaxy) is the Facility Economy of the biggest facilities.
4) Facility X with economy can influence (replace) the Colony economy of a Facility Y
4a) If X has a System Economy Influence
4b) If X and Y are on the same body
4c) If one of them is on the body and the other one is on the orbit (cannot be orbital siblings)
4d) How many facilities X are needed depend on tier of Y (outpost tier1 easier to change than Orbis tier3)
5) Once the Colony economy has changed to another economy, it cannot change again
6) The change of economy is not immediate (on the Daily or Thursday tick?)
For 1), it would mean the stations cannot influence the other Colony stations/ports. The only exception is the Criminal Outpost. So does it mean that a Criminal outpost could change the economy of a planetary port/outpost to Contraband (Service)?
With 4c) This would also mean that it wouldn’t be possible to have an orbital colony (like Coriolis) to change to Contraband as there are no surface with System Economy Influence with economy Contraband. Also that would mean that a Colony facility orbiting a non landable body (like ELW, WW etc.) would not be able to change its economy as no surface facility can influence them.
The Criminal outpost is also weird because the Facility Economy is Colony so it should be a Colony market until it get influenced by something? Unless it gets influenced by its own Contraband...
For 4d), if we have an example where a Coriolis (tier2) needed 2x tier1 (or 1x tier2) surface facilities to change its economy, and with 6) if would be after the tick
Hypotheses:
1) System Economy Influence means the facility can influence another Colony facility
2) Facility Economy is the economy of the market
3) The System economy (displayed in the galaxy) is the Facility Economy of the biggest facilities.
4) Facility X with economy can influence (replace) the Colony economy of a Facility Y
4a) If X has a System Economy Influence
4b) If X and Y are on the same body
4c) If one of them is on the body and the other one is on the orbit (cannot be orbital siblings)
4d) How many facilities X are needed depend on tier of Y (outpost tier1 easier to change than Orbis tier3)
5) Once the Colony economy has changed to another economy, it cannot change again
6) The change of economy is not immediate (on the Daily or Thursday tick?)
For 1), it would mean the stations cannot influence the other Colony stations/ports. The only exception is the Criminal Outpost. So does it mean that a Criminal outpost could change the economy of a planetary port/outpost to Contraband (Service)?
With 4c) This would also mean that it wouldn’t be possible to have an orbital colony (like Coriolis) to change to Contraband as there are no surface with System Economy Influence with economy Contraband. Also that would mean that a Colony facility orbiting a non landable body (like ELW, WW etc.) would not be able to change its economy as no surface facility can influence them.
The Criminal outpost is also weird because the Facility Economy is Colony so it should be a Colony market until it get influenced by something? Unless it gets influenced by its own Contraband...
For 4d), if we have an example where a Coriolis (tier2) needed 2x tier1 (or 1x tier2) surface facilities to change its economy, and with 6) if would be after the tick
How difficult everything is........Why didn't FD just give us the tools or information, why should we move blindly!
I have data points. Warning: Large post.
Yesterday morning, I took screenshots of my system readout, my Coriolis' market and a T2 industrial settlement market. I also had a single refinery hub.
I then put up two more refinery hubs, waited a day, took new screenshots.
First, the system readouts. Yesterday with 1 T2 industrial settlement, one refinery hub:
Then, today with 1 T2 industrial settment and three refinery hubs. I have also started construction on two orbitals but they are not finished at this stage.
Then - Boll City, my Coriolis station. Yesterday it was still a primarily Colony economy, with Industrial as a secondary:
Today, Boll City is a refinery colony with the two new refinery hubs having been added planetside:
(I had to crop and reduce the image significantly to get below the filesize limitation for the forum.)
Significant changes in the Coriolis' market, no more Colony economy, it reads as Refinery/Industrial now. Some metals are there, but not all of the ones found in refineries in the Bubble's core, might have to do with tech level/development level?
Secondary, the T2 industrial installation's market. Before:
And after:
As we can see, the only change was that the T2 industrial for some reason stopped selling CMM composites, and started selling food cartridges instead. It should probably have been the other way around.
To sum up: A Coriolis' colony economy is greater in value than a single T2 industrial settlement's value and a refinery hub's value. When we added two more refinery hubs, the colony economy disappeared and was replaced by a refinery economy with industrial economy as a secondary. As for the T2 industrial settlement, its market was pretty much unchanged aside from the CMM composites that disappeared and was replaced by another trade good. Settlements with facility economy don't seem to be affected by hubs. It's also possible this might change with the Thursday maintenance downtime/server tick. Maybe a ground port with initially a Colony economy would have more Refinery goods for sale?
Those are the findings thus far. I'll probably see about increasing the system's population next and see how that affects the markets. Two outposts, one scientific and one military, each with +1 initial population, are under construction.
EDIT: Added spoiler tags for the images.
Yesterday morning, I took screenshots of my system readout, my Coriolis' market and a T2 industrial settlement market. I also had a single refinery hub.
I then put up two more refinery hubs, waited a day, took new screenshots.
First, the system readouts. Yesterday with 1 T2 industrial settlement, one refinery hub:
Then, today with 1 T2 industrial settment and three refinery hubs. I have also started construction on two orbitals but they are not finished at this stage.
Then - Boll City, my Coriolis station. Yesterday it was still a primarily Colony economy, with Industrial as a secondary:
Today, Boll City is a refinery colony with the two new refinery hubs having been added planetside:
(I had to crop and reduce the image significantly to get below the filesize limitation for the forum.)
Significant changes in the Coriolis' market, no more Colony economy, it reads as Refinery/Industrial now. Some metals are there, but not all of the ones found in refineries in the Bubble's core, might have to do with tech level/development level?
Secondary, the T2 industrial installation's market. Before:
And after:
As we can see, the only change was that the T2 industrial for some reason stopped selling CMM composites, and started selling food cartridges instead. It should probably have been the other way around.
To sum up: A Coriolis' colony economy is greater in value than a single T2 industrial settlement's value and a refinery hub's value. When we added two more refinery hubs, the colony economy disappeared and was replaced by a refinery economy with industrial economy as a secondary. As for the T2 industrial settlement, its market was pretty much unchanged aside from the CMM composites that disappeared and was replaced by another trade good. Settlements with facility economy don't seem to be affected by hubs. It's also possible this might change with the Thursday maintenance downtime/server tick. Maybe a ground port with initially a Colony economy would have more Refinery goods for sale?
Those are the findings thus far. I'll probably see about increasing the system's population next and see how that affects the markets. Two outposts, one scientific and one military, each with +1 initial population, are under construction.
EDIT: Added spoiler tags for the images.
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What makes you think they can't be Orbital siblings?
Good summary. A few minor things I'd differ on.
Similarly the production of e.g. Computer Components at the Industrial station has increased by a similar margin.
(picking CCs as something neither Colony nor Refinery would eat)
Now, the question is, what caused that?
- the Refinery hubs produce Industrial imports, so also boost nearby Industrial production?
- Refinery hubs boost Wealth, Tech Level and Development Level, and one (or a combination of) those boosts nearby Industrial production?
- there was a major BGS state change in the system and this is all coincidence? (I'm not sure I know of a combination sufficient to do that)
This is really important to know is possible - the default production levels of stations appear to be absolutely terrible compared with what you'd expect from the population - so knowing how to boost them is essential for anyone wanting to set up a (mostly) "self-sufficient" outpost that can produce its own supplies for future colonisation.
These seem fairly solid at this stage.
Not quite. It's the two highest weighted sums of facility economies. So if your single largest station is an Industrial planetary port, but then you scatter a whole bunch of Agricultural and Extraction Odyssey settlements around the system, your system economy will be Extraction/Agricultural.
4c and 4d are still a bit uncertain here.
This doesn't seem to be true - you can keep adding influences to it.
Yes, seems to be the case.
Looks like it - and it of course also changes itself
Very useful!
This is almost certainly the smaller Industrial component of the station's economy consuming those metals before they make it to the public market. You can see similar effects at procedural Refinery/Industrial stations.
There's another interesting difference: the production of Nerve Agents and Liquor has increased by 15x
Similarly the production of e.g. Computer Components at the Industrial station has increased by a similar margin.
(picking CCs as something neither Colony nor Refinery would eat)
Now, the question is, what caused that?
- the Refinery hubs produce Industrial imports, so also boost nearby Industrial production?
- Refinery hubs boost Wealth, Tech Level and Development Level, and one (or a combination of) those boosts nearby Industrial production?
- there was a major BGS state change in the system and this is all coincidence? (I'm not sure I know of a combination sufficient to do that)
This is really important to know is possible - the default production levels of stations appear to be absolutely terrible compared with what you'd expect from the population - so knowing how to boost them is essential for anyone wanting to set up a (mostly) "self-sufficient" outpost that can produce its own supplies for future colonisation.
Another data point regarding population and tick:
Yesterday evening, after finishing the agri M settlement, a friend of mine finished a Refinery Hub and an Industrial M Settlement.
We waited for that after the tick.
Agri gave 400 pops (edit: was 4k, mistake on my side), now in the morning at 9:30 UTC i log in and the system shows 114.600 instead of the 112.900 from yesterday 10:15 UTC, which was up from 112.500 that we stared at all evening.
We waited yesterday for about 3-4 hours for the new pops to show after finishing the agri. Then tick came, so we said "let's finish the other two".
So pops changed again over night. So either there are more ticks that calculate population than one in a day. Or this is maybe some kind of queue based system. Or the daily tick is actually multiple ticks.
Fact is: Population changes do NOT happen ONLY on the daily tick, and NOT instantly, but multiple times each day.
(Or, to be precise, they happened multiple times in the night of March 15th 2025.)
Yesterday evening, after finishing the agri M settlement, a friend of mine finished a Refinery Hub and an Industrial M Settlement.
We waited for that after the tick.
Agri gave 400 pops (edit: was 4k, mistake on my side), now in the morning at 9:30 UTC i log in and the system shows 114.600 instead of the 112.900 from yesterday 10:15 UTC, which was up from 112.500 that we stared at all evening.
We waited yesterday for about 3-4 hours for the new pops to show after finishing the agri. Then tick came, so we said "let's finish the other two".
So pops changed again over night. So either there are more ticks that calculate population than one in a day. Or this is maybe some kind of queue based system. Or the daily tick is actually multiple ticks.
Fact is: Population changes do NOT happen ONLY on the daily tick, and NOT instantly, but multiple times each day.
(Or, to be precise, they happened multiple times in the night of March 15th 2025.)
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o7 Commanders
My conclusion on the topic regarding a missing shipyard.
I started colonizing the system with an outpost. My 6th project was the Coriolis Station. After completion, it had no shipyard. Up to that point, I had a technology level of 1. With the Coriolis Station, I had 2 but still no shipyard. After completing a communications installation, I had a technology level of 5 and still no shipyard. After building another communications installation, I had a technology level of 8 and immediately had the shipyard on my Coriolis Station. Unless FD fixed a bug right away, it really seems that a technology level of 6+ builds the shipyard. But why some players have the shipyard immediately and others don't... I have no idea. Perhaps my insight will help someone.
My conclusion on the topic regarding a missing shipyard.
I started colonizing the system with an outpost. My 6th project was the Coriolis Station. After completion, it had no shipyard. Up to that point, I had a technology level of 1. With the Coriolis Station, I had 2 but still no shipyard. After completing a communications installation, I had a technology level of 5 and still no shipyard. After building another communications installation, I had a technology level of 8 and immediately had the shipyard on my Coriolis Station. Unless FD fixed a bug right away, it really seems that a technology level of 6+ builds the shipyard. But why some players have the shipyard immediately and others don't... I have no idea. Perhaps my insight will help someone.
There seems to be a degree of randomness with stations and their services. I recall posting that my science outpost came default with UC services and others posted likewise but at least one commander didn't have it at the outset.
I suspect this is probably "(near) instant, but there's a lot of caching" - after all, systems normally don't change population between visits (even with colonisation) so it will only update the population measure to your client now and then.
Anyone got data on the influence of singular hubs upon coriolises/other stations?
Wondering if a single refinery hub is enough to set a colony's economy, since people here seem to be using multiple
Wondering if a single refinery hub is enough to set a colony's economy, since people here seem to be using multiple
In my post (https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...these-numbers-do.634214/page-25#post-10577442), I had one T2 industrial settlement and one refinery hub on the same planet, with a Coriolis in orbit. The Coriolis had a Colony/Industrial economy, which suggests that the single refinery hub was not enough to 'overwrite' the colony economy. But three hubs were enough to do that, giving the Coriolis a refinery/industry economy.
After setting up the science outpost, I can supply quite a few construction materials on my own without having to use the fleet carrier to travel to the Bubble. Still missing CMM Composites, steel and titanium, but I have many of the others.
A list of my stations' goods:
A list of my stations' goods:
Boll City goods (L pad): |
|
Aluminium(Boll) |
Atmospheric Processors(Boll) |
Basic Medicines(Boll) |
Battle Weapons(Boll) |
Biowaste(Boll) |
Building Fabricators(Boll) |
Computer Components(Boll) |
Copper(Boll) |
Crop Harvesters(Boll) |
Food Cartridges(Boll) |
Geological Equipment(Boll) |
HN Shock Mount(Boll) |
Marine Equipment(Boll) |
Military Grade Fabrics(Boll) |
Mineral Extractors(Boll) |
Personal Weapons(Boll) |
Skimmer Components(Boll) |
Superconductors(Boll) |
Surface Stabilizers(Boll) |
Survival Equipment(Boll) |
Thermal Cooling Units(Boll) |
Water Purifiers(Boll) |
|
Neumann Terminal goods (M pad): |
|
AdvancedCatalysers(Neumann) |
AdvancedMedicines(Neumann) |
Agri-Medicines(Neumann) |
AgronomicTreatment(Neumann) |
Auto-Fabricators(Neumann) |
BasicMedicines(Neumann) |
Biowaste(Neumann) |
EvacuationShelter(Neumann) |
H.E.suits(Neumann) |
LandEnrichmentSystems(Neumann) |
MedDiagEquipment(Neumann) |
MicrobialFurnaces(Neumann) |
MicroControllers(Neumann) |
NonLethalWeapons (Neumann) |
PersonalWeapons(Neumann) |
Pesticides(Neumann) |
ReactiveArmor(Neumann) |
ResonatingSeparators(Neumann) |
Robotics(Neumann) |
StructuralRegulators(Neumann) |
That is very much how it works in the as-is BGS before Trailblazers so I'll buy that. I also have a suspicion that the effect is multiplied for the systems further along the value chain, so High Tech and Colony specifically are more or less useless until you have a large population.
I set up a science outpost, it has a pretty decent amount of most high-tech goods available. Of course, with a higher population, that amount may well increase further as there's more people to put to work.
My Science Outpost's market, with 30k system population:
[Google Translate]
Hello. Let me share what happened in the Col 285 Sector OK-P a35-1 system in the two weeks since the update. I recorded how population growth and market supply changed with the addition of buildings.
The market in this system is only at the asteroid base, which is the farthest away. Even though it was affected by Civil Liberty and Public Holiday, at a certain point, the supply did not increase even if I added buildings. I built one by one toward the main star, but I may have needed to build something near the station to increase the supply.
As for the population, it increased almost constantly with each addition of a tier 1 or tier 2 building.
I hope this helps in some way.
Hello. Let me share what happened in the Col 285 Sector OK-P a35-1 system in the two weeks since the update. I recorded how population growth and market supply changed with the addition of buildings.
The market in this system is only at the asteroid base, which is the farthest away. Even though it was affected by Civil Liberty and Public Holiday, at a certain point, the supply did not increase even if I added buildings. I built one by one toward the main star, but I may have needed to build something near the station to increase the supply.
As for the population, it increased almost constantly with each addition of a tier 1 or tier 2 building.
I hope this helps in some way.
| Week | No. | Location | Distance (LS) | Buildings | Tier | Type | Layouts | Name | Economy | Economy shown on the map | Population | Pop growth | Hydrogen fuel supply | Gallite supply | Cobalt supply | Notes | Initial Population Increase | Max Population Increase | Security | Tech Level | Wealth | Standard of Living | Development Level |
| 1 | 1 | 12 | 1,796 | Asteroid base (Icy) | 2 | Initial Star Port | Kamakura Orbital | Extraction | Extraction / Colony | 14000 | 131 | 203 | 1 | -1 | 3 | 5 | -4 | 7 | |||||
| 1 | 2 | 11 | 788 | Orbital Outpost | 1 | Outpost | Prometheus | Kaku Vista | High Tech | Extraction / High Tech | 23000 | 9000 | 262 | 407 | 1 | 3 | |||||||
| 1 | 3 | 11 | 788 | Orbital Installation | 1 | Space Farm | Demeter | Kawanishi Point | Agricultural | Extraction / High Tech | ? | ? | ? | ? | Either there was no change or I missed it. | 5 | 1 | ||||||
| 1 | 4 | 10 | 797 | Orbital Installation | 1 | Satellite | Eirene | Iwamoto Horizons | Extraction / High Tech | 23900 | 900 | 393 | 611 | 1 | 1 | 1 | |||||||
| 1 | 5 | 10 | 797 | Orbital Installation | 1 | Comms Installation | Pistis | Watanabe Beacon | Extraction / High Tech | 24800 | 900 | 983 | 1521 | Civil Liberty | 1 | 3 | |||||||
| 1 | 6 | 8 | 430 | Surface Hub | 2 | Exploration | Tellus | Akiyama Relay | Tourism | Extraction / High Tech | 26200 | 1400 | 1230 | 1901 | -1 | 6 | 2 | ||||||
| 2 | 7 | 9 | 593 | Orbital Installation | 1 | Satellite | Hermes | Sato's Progress | Extraction / High Tech | 27100 | 900 | 654 | 1018 | 374 | Civil Liberty end | 1 | 1 | 1 | |||||
| 2 | 8 | 8 | 430 | Surface settlement | 2 | Large settlement | Fufluns | Shimizu Hospitality Zone | Tourism | Extraction / High Tech | 28500 | 1400 | 654 | 1018 | 374 | -1 | 5 | ||||||
| 2 | 9 | 8 | 430 | Surface settlement | 2 | Large settlement | Fufluns | Morita Boarding Lodge | Tourism | Extraction / High Tech | 29900 | 1400 | 654 | 1018 | 374 | -1 | 5 | ||||||
| 2 | 10 | 7 | 431 | Orbital Installation | 2 | Tourist Installation | Opora | Fujimori Gateway | Tourism | Extraction / High Tech | 31300 | 1400 | 654 | 1018 | 374 | -3 | 6 | 2 | |||||
| 2 | 11 | 9 | 593 | Orbital Installation | 2 | Government Installation | Harmonia | Nojiri Landing | Extraction / High Tech | 32700 | 1400 | 164 | 509 | 187 | Public holiday | 2 | 6 | 2 | |||||
| 2 | 12 | 3 | 122 | Orbital Outpost | 1 | Outpost | Prometheus | Yamashita Town | High Tech | Extraction / High Tech | 40700 | 8000 | 327 | 1018 | 374 | Public holiday end 2025/03/12 | 1 | 3 | |||||
| 2 | 13 | 3 | 122 | Orbital Installation | 1 | Relay station | Enodia | Nomura's Progress | High Tech | Extraction / High Tech | 41500 | 800 | 327 | 1018 | 374 | 2025/03/13 | 1 | 1 | |||||
| 2 | 14 | 5 | 227 | Orbital Installation | 2 | Security station | Dicaeosyne | Okawara Reach | Military | Extraction / High Tech | 42900 | 1400 | 327 | 1018 | 374 | 2025/03/13 | 8 | 3 | 2 | ||||
| 3 | Extraction / High Tech | 42900 | 0 | 654 | 1018 | 374 | 2025/03/16 |
I wonder if, in general, people are missing a trick here.
There's hyperfocus on getting Coriolis and Orbis economies to shift... but the T8 has nearly 400t of capacity and a medium pad... Refineries in the game seem to use the Civilian Outpost variant, and we have surface Outpost Ports as well...
Coriolis and Orbis mid/top tier facilities... maybe they need more hubs/facilities to influence their economies... and if people want resource hubs to sprout from, there needs to be more focus on Outposts?
Tangentially... I do find it interesting that, for Colonisation, the economy type which contributes arguably the most resources to Colonisation efforts (the refinery), is also the least accessible of any economy type within Colonisation. That's unusual.