Development on "The Outsider" stopped?

You don't need an official reply, David Braben has already commented on it. He clarified that The Outsider was NOT cancelled, and that they merely lowered it's priority to focus on other "unannounced projects". i.e. progress will be slowed, but it's still going.

http://www.develop-online.net/news/36812/The-Outsider-not-cancelled

Well, he has to say that, but it still looks grim to me. The comments from former Frontier employees are very sad.
The idea of Frontier doing little cash-cow games as a way of learning the technology for E4 was becoming increasingly tenuous. Given the reduncancies, it seems unlikely that employees are being switched to E4; the financial pressures look to make Frontier doomed to be a producer of small fluffy animal games forever. A very sad end for such a brilliant company and it's founder, and very sad if this is the day our dreams of E4 died, though it's been looking this way for a while.
I'm sorry to be so pessimistic, like everyone else here I've tried to keep the dream alive for many years.
Please tell me I'm wrong Frontier? I'm really sorry such a great company has been forced to this.
 
I'm with Geraldine, I'll believe its DEAD when I hear it. Then, I'll start my own company and buy the rights. ^_^

I do think that times are hard however, and even if Elite 4 came out right now, I still wouldn't be able to afford it. So I'm thinking that Frontier is focusing on what makes money to keep afloat.

However, big crowd? What? Yes its sad, but I don't think Elite has the crowd it once did. I honestly don't know of anybody on my friend's lists, at my college, or anyone I work with who has ever HEARD of Elite or any of the titles in the series. I mention Privateer and get more blank stares. I mention Freelancer, and that gets a nod or two.

What I'm saying, is that we, the fans, are part of a niche group simply because its been so long since the previous titles. Heck, look at Starcraft. I had a friend ask me what that was. In the gaming world, eons have passed, and all these new fans have no idea what it is if it didn't come out on consoles. :p
 
Fallout was a "dead" series with a niche following, but became huge when resurrected.

If you have a good idea it will always be a good idea.
 
That's a great point Turwhitt, Fallout did come back, but without it's original developers. In Elite's case though, we would still need Mr Braben (and Mr Bell, I know, I know :rolleyes:, but life is too short) involved. Even if he (they) did sign the rights over, it just wouldn't feel right without at least one of them. It would be at best, slightly hollow, a copy of what should be....................
 
I would take

a) An Elite-universe-themed game with its roots in the game's original ethos, made by someone else
over
b) No Elite game at all, ever

any day.
 
I would take

a) An Elite-universe-themed game with its roots in the game's original ethos, made by someone else
over
b) No Elite game at all, ever

any day.

i completely agree and also its worth remembering that the core of fallouts team did work on 'new vegas' so theres always a chance of any DB involvment
 
Yes I do agree too that a "tribute game" would be better than nothing. That's why I follow Pioneer's progress so closely. ;)

However, in my view a new "proper" Elite game still needs at least DB or IB (better with both) involved at some stage of it's creation, even if it's in an overseer role and not on the actual coding teams. I simply can't emphasise enough just how important their vision, their unique talent is to the series. Keep The Faith!!
 
If the Outsider game engine is complete why not use it to make a remake of Frontier, as the 20th anniversary of Frontier is a good two and half years away they still have plenty of time to do it.
Probably they would not need a large team to make the game and it could released as a digital download to the 360/PC to keep the cost down also they would be able to gauge if there was any interest for Elite 4
 
However, in my view a new "proper" Elite game still needs at least DB or IB (better with both) involved at some stage of it's creation

Hmm there's a thought. Bring IB out of space-game retirement. He's got less commitments. They could always call it "Ian Bell's LeetSpace" (a la Sid Meier) to bypass having to buy any rights. Everyone would still know what they're getting at.*

Tribute games are all well and good, but i want a title with a proper budget.

*I'm joking, mods!


If the Outsider game engine is complete why not use it to make a remake of Frontier

Because it's not a space game? Or am i missing something?
 
Because it's not a space game? Or am i missing something?

I remember from ages ago that Frontier said The Outsider would help develop the technology to make E4, presumably the graphics/character/AI side: after all, the space physics from the 1.44Mb Elite is still spot on!!

Sorry to be gloomy here, we've all come on a long journey together. My pessimism about E4 ever seeing the light of day is based on:
(a) the lack of an announcement about it following The Outsider being canned/put on hold.
(b) the laying off of 36 (some in September as well ad the latest 17) of the development team, and some of their comments on forums.
(c) the waning in interest in space genre since the glory days of Star Trek/Star Wars/Babylon/2001 etc, although of course like pirates and cowboys it could come back.
(d) the financial pressures on Frontier not to sink more money into a big long term project
(e) the shrinking fan base, especially in the target games market.

Against that, the things that make me still hope are the fact that Elite was an amazing, iconic game/world/franchise and the passion of those here, and hopefully of DB and those at Frontier, to keep that alive.
 

Sir.Tj

The Moderator who shall not be Blamed....
Volunteer Moderator
If the Outsider game engine is complete why not use it to make a remake of Frontier, as the 20th anniversary of Frontier is a good two and half years away they still have plenty of time to do it.
Probably they would not need a large team to make the game and it could released as a digital download to the 360/PC to keep the cost down also they would be able to gauge if there was any interest for Elite 4


Sounds like a very good idea to me. I think that either someting needs to be done or the Elite universe may very well die out altogether, Which would be a tragedy to say the least.
 
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If the Outsider game engine is complete why not use it to make a remake of Frontier, as the 20th anniversary of Frontier is a good two and half years away they still have plenty of time to do it.
Probably they would not need a large team to make the game and it could released as a digital download to the 360/PC to keep the cost down also they would be able to gauge if there was any interest for Elite 4


It doesn't even have to be the Outsider engine.

There is already a working modernized engine for FFE - D3DFFE. I am pretty sure the developer of it would agree to license/sell it to frontier. Maybe even give it to them for free.

Just a few tweaks and enhancements to it and FFE can by re-released as a Special Editon for today's audience. Just like what LucasArts did with Monkey Island 1 & 2.

Easy money.
 
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It doesn't even have to be the Outsider engine.

There is already a working modernized engine for FFE - D3DFFE. I am pretty sure the developer of it would agree to license/sell it to frontier. Maybe even give it to them for free.

Just a few tweaks and enhancements to it and FFE can by re-released as a Special Editon for today's audiece. Just like what LucasArts did with Monkey Island 1 & 2.

Easy money.

They could do some thing like that but IMO I think they would be better of using there own engine, beside any game assets which they created for it could be used in Elite 4 as theirs always going to be a Cobra mk111 ect.
 
I know what a game engine is.

I'm struggling to see how a game engine designed for a first/third person ground game would easily translate to a ship-based space game.

The game engine is the software that defines how textures are rendered and geometry calculated among other things. Basically it allows you to create objects and environments and plug them into the engine and it will then take care of things like behaviour of characters, vehicles, buildings, weapons and environmental objects in relation to each other. Things like the physics, collision detection, animation, AI and character interaction are all managed by the engine so the fundamental stuff like modelling, texturing, game scripting, basically all the good stuff that gives a game it's environment and storyline can be concentrated on.

A great example of this would be the Unreal Engine 3 which was applied to a massive number of games, notably for me:
Batman: Arkham Asylum
Gears of War 1,2 and 3
Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2 and soon to be Mass Effect 3
Medal of Honor
Mirrors Edge

...to name a few - More than 500 companies had already licensed the engine by 2007 and that was just the Unreal Engine 2.

Having a decent games engine massively cuts down the development time in a game and as a result the end cost of getting them out there.

It's pretty clever stuff. Conceivably if the engine for Outsider is in a pretty up to date state and was written in such a way that it's pretty accessible then Elite 4's character interaction, AI and environmental aspects could be significantly easier/less time consuming to create. That's of course assuming that the way that they have been applied to the game mechanic in The Outsider is at all polished. It could well be that the only thing that's in any form of completion is the graphics engine but even that we've not actually seen anything since about 2007 and as we know graphics and computer capabilities have moved on significantly since then but due to the consoles taking over a massive segment of the market the actual games themselves have not improved massively. One might argue that consoles are killing the progress of in game graphics but that's a whole other discussion.

EDIT: Sorry just reading that back I didn't really answer the question. A game engine is not generally specific to a game. A bullet striking a target may well be very similar in terms of collision detection as a missile striking a ship or for that matter someone blasting away with a gun in a space station. Interaction between a cop and the players character could well be very similar to the interaction between an alien and the players character on a planet. It's the way it is dealt with that is controlled by the game engine as opposed to the actual content of the action, if that makes sense.
 
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A great example of this would be the Unreal Engine 3 which was applied to a massive number of games, notably for me:
Batman: Arkham Asylum
Gears of War 1,2 and 3
Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2 and soon to be Mass Effect 3
Medal of Honor
Mirrors Edge

All of which are FPS(ish)s.

Or do you know of a space game made with the U3 engine?
 
All of which are FPS(ish)s.

Or do you know of a space game made with the U3 engine?

I think that is likely down to the nature of the Unreal Engine. I would guess that the Outsider engine would have to be expanded to involve vehicles and the space environment but things like character interaction, walking around on space stations and planets, things like city generation, environmental gravity, particle physics and AI could all be applied to a greater or lesser extent.

It's all speculative anyway and one might have to question Frontiers/DBs confidence in The Outsider being either marketable or a potential earner if it has been put on the backburner. The same could be said about publishers as well although I suspect that is more down to them struggling to share the vision of DB as I'd put money on where they are going with The Outsiders sandbox nature being significantly different to perhaps their expectation of another Grand Theft Auto...
 
One might argue that consoles are killing the progress of in game graphics but that's a whole other discussion.

Good point Steve. The improvement in graphics over the years have been astonishing; I wouldn't want to go back to monochrome wireframe or blocky 2d pixels. However, all the recent games I have tried are washed in light in an unrealistic way, even grown-up pc standards like Civilisation 5 now has the same effect, overbright colours and a childish, console feel. I'm sure there are exceptions (Dragon Age for instance) but it feels like the console effect is actually pushing graphics into being less realistic! And the pressure to have a pretty colour-washed environment mitigates against (you know where I,m going with this) game environments which are not.....space, for instance. Looking at recent space games it's clear that the programmers think "hey, this space, it's too...black! Lets have lots of ridiculously overbright nebulae or people will get bored". (Even was it FE2 caused uproar by having blue space!)
 
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