Development Update 5 - October

on point.
i really don´t understand how people can claim the 1:1 galaxy is the reason for the performance problems when that wasn´t the case with horizons.
99% of that is neither visible nor computed in any meaningful way.

my best guess is that the additional assets put to much strain on the rendering pipeline and that results in stalling processes.
the fact that i can have good performance on an empty planet, but not in an odyssey settlement, pretty much proves mine and disproves their assumption.
the amount of "space" i see is the same in both occasions.

if the sheer scale of the universe would be the cause, the performance would be equally bad everywhere, not just when odyssey assets are present.

Sure, the galaxy's presence isn't causing framerate issues, that ED is potentially generating a significant section of terrain at low detail (ie the planet you are on plus the rest of that system) makes it different from almost all other games though. The sun setting in ED is 'real', not some canned animation as it is an a typical MMO or openworld game (like Minecraft).

But other games don't have the entire galaxy as a feature of the game. It's a big part of why I continue to play ED despite it's flaws and not other games.
 
There are definitely some technical challenges in making the planets, however a lot of those issues should have already been solved in horizons. Having every vertex of geometry for the whole planet is obviously not feasible, nor is loading into memory objects like rocks and lifeforms and geology everywhere. They have to do a lot of tricks to determine precise geometry as you move, along with adding in rocks and life etc and storing all of that so that if you turn around and go back, the areas you've been are the same. They also have to communicate that information to other clients in the instance if you are the host. All of that is complex, but most of that was already done in horizons, they added better graphics but the fundamentals should be similar. Either they underestimated the changes or the people doing the upgrade didn't understand the existing code well enough because managing the slight of hand to make planetary exploration work was pretty terrible day one, and still isn't great today afaik.

One thing I noticed in horizons was that on the rare occasion that I was moving too fast for the terrain to calculate, I ended up clipping (in my SRV) through the rough outline that had not been generated in detail yet and I was driving on some flat surface underneath what looked like the surface. A big difference though was I don't recall getting major FPS drops, they seemed to be not stalling the main game thread(s) for terrain generation so even though it obviously wasn't right, it was more of a glitch and less of an annoying stutter. I'm not sure which is better or worse, but its interesting that in Odyssey they seem to stall the main rendering pipeline for a lot of things such that rather than being slow about loading in some assets or just doing the best you can in a priority, they hold up the whole thing till they can load everything making for maybe a worse overall experience.
 
You make a good point WRT other games. EDO can be compared to EDH though.
Sorry for the late reply.

Yes, that's true and one of the reasons I said Odyssey should run better. But I wouldn't expect it to run just as fast Horizons simply because Odyssey has better textures, more polygons and objects, etc.
It probably doesn't help that FDEV said that we can run Odyssey if we can run Horizons. I guess part of that statement was marketing talk and they got the criticism they deserve for it. But I also believe they never meant that Odyssey would run just as fast as Horizons, just that it runs.
On my computer the game runs pretty good now. At least not completely unreasonable...

It still isn't there though. And it should not have taken 8 patches. The whole release should have been early access. As I said above, they totally deserve criticism for that. I guess they got the message though...
 
Greetings Commanders,

Spooky season is here and with it the end of another month in our Earth-based calendar. As such, we are delighted to share with you the latest development progress from the team.

This week saw the release of Odyssey Update 8. This brought a number of new and exciting features into our galaxy, ranging from emotes and four-player multicrew to new social spaces in Megaships. We’ve been elated watching Commanders coming together to experience everything that Odyssey has to offer. If you would like to see some of the highlights from Update 8 you can watch our highlights video here.

As Update 8 has just arrived, we won’t be doing an issue breakdown as part of this post. Instead, you’ll be able to find more as Update 9 work progresses through our Supercruise News livestreams in November. That said, we want to provide you with some detailed insight on our optimisations for game performance, a number of which have arrived in Update 8 with more still to come.

Performance Optimisation

Engineers all across the team, from render, to AI, to low-level game systems, have been working hard on optimisation. As part of Update 8, extensive work has been carried out on Odyssey’s light and shadows, improvements to glass, skin, and particles, along with high-level rendering optimisations and further improvements to the Navmesh. These have delivered significant performance improvements to the on-foot experience in a number of areas. We have tested a number of different hardware configurations, and while not every system is identical, we have seen strong improvements across the board in areas such as planet port social spaces and planet surfaces more widely. That however is not to say our work is done.

Update 9 will see further improvement with optimisation already well underway for character animation, mid-far distance planet rendering, lighting, scatter rocks, object physics, AI and character models and much more, contributing to an ever better Odyssey experience.

Upcoming Updates and Content

Please note: These are at varying stages of progress. This is not an exhaustive list of everything that is being considered or currently being developed. They are not final, so they are subject to change. We will keep you updated with news and details as they progress. With that said, here’s a look at just some of the features and content in consideration, to go alongside the other development work required for future updates.

Update 9

The team have been incredibly busy working not only on optimisation and fixes, but to bring new and exciting content to Odyssey. You can see a preview of some of the features slated for release in Update 9 below.

Twin-Seat Combat SRV

We are making fantastic strides towards releasing our new SRV and we’re almost ready for our full reveal. Stay tuned to our channels for more details and in the meantime we hope you enjoy the small teaser below…

View attachment 271683

Further Mission Additions and Improvements

We continue to expand player missions and their complexity, striving to make each mission more diverse and dynamic. As we previously mentioned we are continuing to work on this, below are just some of the examples of what mission features we will be adding for Update 9. Please remember this is only a snapshot of we have planned and will of course share more with you in the future!

Mission Contacts at POIs

Similar to the mission contacts recently added in Update 8, we'll also be adding new scenarios and related missions to help or meet individuals outside of the confines of settlements. Some of these individuals might need the player's help to get their ship running, or may be waiting for a courier to complete the next step of a sensitive delivery. Sometimes you may find you are just in time to save them from opportunistic raiders.

Settlement Mission-Providers

As we have in social spaces, some of the inhabitants at a settlement may also have requests they can make of the player. These missions are a lot more personal and will be granted by actual inhabitants who you visit again later to complete the mission.

Multi Limpet Controller

The multi limpet controller is a new module that works in addition to existing limpet controllers, allowing players to deploy multiple limpet types using a single module slot. This new controller is not intended to replace the existing dedicated limpet controllers and will be balanced against these within the game, allowing basic use of multiple limpet types without a dedicated slot for each.

After Update 9

Fleet Carrier Interiors


View attachment 271684

We previously announced that we are bringing interiors to Fleet Carriers just as we did for Megaships in Update 8. As you might imagine, this poses a greater challenge due to a number of variables. These include allowing players to transport multiple other Commanders and their ships while existing in the same social space. We are pleased to say that we are making strong progress towards this and more details can be seen below.

Fleet Carrier interiors will reflect some of the existing services you choose to add to your carrier. For example, adding a Shipyard will add the ability for players to buy ships while on foot.

New optional services will be available to carrier owners. We’ll share more on these closer to launch.

Fleet Carrier interiors will feature escape pods, meaning that any player stranded aboard another Commander’s carrier will be able to abandon ship.

Commanders will be able to experience a hyperspace jump seated inside a carrier and enjoy the view!

Further details will be announced soon - we hope you will join us for a very special VIP Fleet Carrier tour in December!

Narrative

We’re pleased to see you getting involved and enjoying the current ongoing narrative around the Azimuth Saga. Without giving anything away, we have a lot more planned for 2022!

More to Come!

We hope you’re enjoying four-player multicrew and Megaship interiors from Update 8, and looking forward to pairing up in the new SRV come Update 9. As always, this is just a small look at some of the content that’s on its way and you can expect further mentions of bug fixes, performance improvements, plus new content in January 2022.

Thank you as always for your continued feedback and support.

~ The Elite Dangerous Team
Multi Limpets Controller!
Thanks for listening! 👍
 
Yes, that's true and one of the reasons I said Odyssey should run better. But I wouldn't expect it to run just as fast Horizons simply because Odyssey has better textures, more polygons and objects, etc.

Subjectively Odyssey looks nice (when it's working properly, and the ship skin has been reworked for the new lighting, and....)

However Horizons also still looks nice, and performs well, and has had lots of those little problems hammered out over the years, and has a user interface that while far from ideal, is less laggy, clicky & frustratingly organised.

I do expect asset loading to be optimised for the intended gameplay (plants appearing 300m from my ship mean I'm not skilfully searching by eye for distant details, I'm just waiting for the game to load the asset in front of my hovering ship)

Looks great in static screenshots though.
 
The fleet carrier picture looks like a backwards looking view of an ATC centre.
As modern carriers have both an ATC tower and a ship navigation bridge, I expect there will be another bridge view out of the front of the carrier, looking forwards.
This would be where the hired crew would drive the ship, and we could tell them where to go.
The big windows at the front of the carrier would of course be the lounge and bar area, where we can sit and watch the jump.
 

stormyuk

Volunteer Moderator
They're about to release another Jurassic game they'll be fine.

Hopefully, they do address the elephant in the room before years end.
I am hoping that's where all the console developers have been beavering away and once that's done, finally there will be some Odyssey console news.

Owwww, yeh this one still hurts.
 
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I am hoping that's where all the console developers have been beavering away and once that's done, finally there will be some Odyssey console news.
Unless someone can show Odyssey running well on XboxOne/PS4 tier hardware, so maintaining 30FPS at 1600x900 (as a bunch of demanding Xbox/PS4 games use upscaling to 1080P), then we can validly conclude that Odyssey isn't optimised enough yet.

Both Xbox One and PS4 use custom Radeons, but both the GTX 950 and Radeon 7870 are slightly faster than the consoles' GPUs. An FX8350 is slightly quicker than the respective custom 8-core AMD Jaguar CPUs.

So, how is Odyssey playing after Update 8 on a PC with: AMD FX8350, 8GB RAM, Radeon 7870 (or GTX 950), HDD, Win10, 1600x900?
 
Until you bite into it and find it's actually shaving cream.

It's been sat at Mostly Negative for 6 months on Steam for good reason.
 
Although wasn't the overcomplicated pipeline a dx11 thing? Don't remember anymore but I do know Vulkan and dx12 fix this issue. Which means ultimately they should have switched to Vulkan with odyssey. Yes Minimun GPU would be 2 generations newer GTX400 - 600 but the gains would have been worth it.
Might be even before hitting the graphical rendering pipeline at all. Could be pre-requisite info like the results of procedural terrain generation that has to be received before even moving into the pipeline.
 
Unless someone can show Odyssey running well on XboxOne/PS4 tier hardware, so maintaining 30FPS at 1600x900 (as a bunch of demanding Xbox/PS4 games use upscaling to 1080P), then we can validly conclude that Odyssey isn't optimised enough yet.

Both Xbox One and PS4 use custom Radeons, but both the GTX 950 and Radeon 7870 are slightly faster than the consoles' GPUs. An FX8350 is slightly quicker than the respective custom 8-core AMD Jaguar CPUs.

So, how is Odyssey playing after Update 8 on a PC with: AMD FX8350, 8GB RAM, Radeon 7870 (or GTX 950), HDD, Win10, 1600x900?
Just checked my GC is a GTX 680 and I got on foot at 5-10 fps before update 5 and now with update 8 I get ~20fps (all in 1920x1080), knowing the advanced age of this model (March 2012) this isn't bad in fact ...
so either GTX 950 (August 2015) does better or these systems are just outdated...
 
So, how is Odyssey playing after Update 8 on a PC with: AMD FX8350, 8GB RAM, Radeon 7870 (or GTX 950), HDD, Win10, 1600x900?
In my case GTX970 ... not bad at all to be honest.

In fact I was playing at 1600x900 after the previous patch, and it wasn't acceptable. I was playing today at 1920x1080 at high graphics and it was better than it's ever been.

Still sudden drops to single digit frames, but I know people with 'proper' pc specs are having that as well!
 
Basically the game does run fine on a gxt970. The problem is it inexplicably goes from fine to stuttering mess with no obvious reason.

SOMETHING is wrong. But it's better than it was. The SOMETHING isn't fixed though.
 

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
By now, there are surely tribes in the Amazon who have never had contact with the rest of the human race and yet are aware that there is no further news to report on the Odyssey console version.

YcSX3V1.jpeg


'Hi Hector, how's the wife? Nice monkey you caught last week by the way...'

'Yeah thanks mate and she's not bad, she's just a bit disappointed that Elite Dangerous haven't made any announcement about the console version of Odyssey yet'
Who made the picture then? :D
 
Just checked my GC is a GTX 680 and I got on foot at 5-10 fps before update 5 and now with update 8 I get ~20fps (all in 1920x1080), knowing the advanced age of this model (March 2012) this isn't bad in fact ...
so either GTX 950 (August 2015) does better or these systems are just outdated...
What CPU & RAM do you have? If you've got 8GB and a decent quad-core in there it might be comparable to console specs.

The GTX 680 is about 30% faster in games than a GTX 950.

It's worth deleting the graphics folder to reset its settings and cache, and grabbing the latest drivers if you haven't already:

Then test the on foot tutorial using low/medium/high settings at both 900P and 1080P (make sure FSR and CAS are definitely disabled because the GTX 680 won't support them):
 
In my case GTX970 ... not bad at all to be honest.

In fact I was playing at 1600x900 after the previous patch, and it wasn't acceptable. I was playing today at 1920x1080 at high graphics and it was better than it's ever been.

Still sudden drops to single digit frames, but I know people with 'proper' pc specs are having that as well!
Basically the game does run fine on a gxt970. The problem is it inexplicably goes from fine to stuttering mess with no obvious reason.

SOMETHING is wrong. But it's better than it was. The SOMETHING isn't fixed though.
Yep. With my rig too I see those massive FPS drops, on roughly a third of settlements/ground-combat-zones that I've visited. First when exiting my ship or the dropship, which last for around 8 seconds, then occasionally again depending on settlement activity (battle, or killing NPCs) but that's for a couple of seconds. Ryzen 5600X, 32GB, 3060Ti, NVMe

Only pattern I've seen is it often occurs for very large settlements, plus on certain worlds if one settlement has the issue, the rest usually do too. If a settlement has no NPCs present then no FPS drops occur, for example after killing them all or an abandoned site.

When it happens, I see my CPU "spike" a few %, so I'm guessing it's something bottlenecking the game's main CPU thread - probably NPC AI related. "Navmesh" (navigation mesh?) fixes are regularly mentioned in the patchnotes, and we were told Update 8 contained a bunch of them.
 
What CPU & RAM do you have? If you've got 8GB and a decent quad-core in there it might be comparable to console specs.

The GTX 680 is about 30% faster in games than a GTX 950.

It's worth deleting the graphics folder to reset its settings and cache, and grabbing the latest drivers if you haven't already:

Then test the on foot tutorial using low/medium/high settings at both 900P and 1080P (make sure FSR and CAS are definitely disabled because the GTX 680 won't support them):
16G RAM & i7 - 4790K
I didn't reset the drivers like that for years though ...
 
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