Discuss AI here (After Engineer mods removal)

[Brysett]

I may just have been very unlucky... But got interdicted in my brand new type 6, with class 4 shields (comes with class 3). Couldn't escape the interdiction, so I submitted near the end to be able to use the Frame Drive asap. Boosted away, moving fairly randomly not to get hit. Shields gone. Still boosting. Frame drive comes online. Waiting for it to warm up. 3 seconds later. Eject eject...
Now I am fairly new to the game. Only harmless in combat. Basicly just doing some trading to be able to afford moving up.
I don't mind the lost cargo. I'll recover. But I am a bit miffed about not having a snowballs chance in hell. At least make me feel I have a chance.
But as I said. I might just have been very unlucky.
(I didn't really see what attacked me. I was too busy trying to escape. Keep in mind, I am new to the game.)

 

[WR3ND]

I haven't been able to test out the new new NPCs yet and likely won't be able to for a bit, so this might not seem like a fair assessment...

But based on my previous encounters with the older new NPCs which offered no real challenge to me that wasn't on my terms and didn't involve accidentally biting off more than I could chew, even with them having the Engineered mods and me not having them, I voted "too easy" for me.

That being said, any upgrade to the AI and enjoyment taking NPCs on compared to 2.0 is appreciated. It's quite a silly person indeed who would expect a game to be tailor made just to suit their tastes.

...

In the interest of science and constructive feedback, my ranks are Expert, Merchant, Pioneer, and Helpless.

This is the ship I usually pilot and what I often do in the game. → https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=175238&page=3&p=2828837&viewfull=1#post2828837

 

[SenatorPerry]

There is still a super NPC that spawns in a system every so often. It sends you a message and then chases you around. If you survive an interdiction, it will spawn randomly any time you exit supercruise. You can high wake and it won't follow, but if you low wake it will stay on you attacking.

This super NPC was always my problem. No wanted in any way and he/she hops in to attack me because I am wanted in another system. It ruins the fun and is especially annoying when it instantly gets you when you enter a system. I wanted this super NPC to get softened up a bit.

Otherwise the NPC is fine.

 

[Crash1099]

Npc are ok now that modded weapons are gone. I hope they don't over nerf the ai where they are push overs.

 

[Ziljan]

There is still a super NPC that spawns in a system every so often. It sends you a message and then chases you around. If you survive an interdiction, it will spawn randomly any time you exit supercruise. You can high wake and it won't follow, but if you low wake it will stay on you attacking.

Otherwise the NPC is fine.

Were you you on a mission? These NPCs are almost always mission spawns. Their rank/ship is tied to the rank/payout of the mission. They will also spawn if you are wanted in another system, bounty hunters have warrant scanners too

Personally, the unexpected assassins coming to claim my bounty from another system is one of my favorite things about 2.1. I've heard nothing but praise about this mechanic, even from non-combat folks. Probably because they think we deserve it!

 

[Javert]

Were you you on a mission? These NPCs are almost always mission spawns. Their rank/ship is tied to the rank/payout of the mission. They will also spawn if you are wanted in another system, bounty hunters have warrant scanners too

Personally, the unexpected assassins coming to claim my bounty from another system is one of my favorite things about 2.1. I've heard nothing but praise about this mechanic, even from non-combat folks. Probably because they think we deserve it!

Perhaps this is the issue still remaining - maybe some mission NPC are hard coded to have engineer weapons and that can only be changed client side. We will find out in the next patch perhaps.

 

[FX2K]

So far, they seem to be just right.. so that's my vote.
For me, this means they are a lot harder than the stupid AI before, but more like what I expected them to be, dangerous but not always deadly.

I'm quite looking forward to a session in ED tonight

 

[Rankaze]

Last night I popped into a high RES and the AI was still much more lively than before 2.1 (a good thing). I can't really evaluate their firepower effectively, however; I wwas flying my featherweight Courier build, the effectiveness of which is largely predicated on denying my opponents quality shots at me; if I allow myself to be hit much I am in trouble regardless of what they are using. Avoiding fire, not absorbing it, is the name of the game for me in that ship, and the AI is still making me work hard at that (just as I like it!)

 

[rrobes]

Why do you and others keep referring to those that don't necessarily agree with you as "whiners". You yourself "whine" when you "whine" about "whiners". Just respect others for their opinions and experiences.

There was an issue, I personally got blown up by a "Boss" NPC as did many others. You can search my posts and read about it.

Hopefully the tweak has restored overall playability. FD can't just cater to the "exteremely gifted" combat pilots as you may or may not be, I know I am not one of those. If you are, I congratulate you on your skill. Everyone falls somewhere in a bell curve and to be fiscally responsible FD has to appeal to a broad audience. You may have seen the results of the poll.

I will be going out to HIRES today and see what, if anything, has changed. More on that later.

"The Stars My Destination"
Alfred Bester

 

[Ziljan]

Perhaps this is the issue still remaining - maybe some mission NPC are hard coded to have engineer weapons and that can only be changed client side. We will find out in the next patch perhaps.

He didn't mention modded weapons. But I think they are coded by mission rank, so "super NPC" could simply mean a deadly rank FDL coming after you on high paying BB station mission.

I suspect a lot of people are accepting high rank, high payout trade missions, or secret ops, and doing it in squishy ships that can't evade or flee. Then are surprised by the when normal power high rank NPCs show up to prove why the payout is so high.

 

[Doolittle]

Can't vote in a thread where it doesn't apply to my gameplay style. But, I'd imagine when engaging for the pew-pew action it does sound a lot better. Didn't notice any less harassment by magically appearing NPCs with 2.0 or 2.1. Still the same arcade gimmick FD uses to keep many commanders annoyed and running in disgust.

Tonight I think I'll just ditch the whole concept of "do what you want" and do just what FD wants and that is apparently to do pew-pew. Think I'll start being the obnoxious guy who hangs around starting planets just to pick on noobs. FD would probably like that, they coded it in for the NPCs which means they must promote such things.

Probably have some feedback regarding this type of play style some time tonight.

 

[Davadin]

Did 3 haz RES trip last night EST.
Did 5 (failed 1) missions that involves random hostile encounters.
Did 2 (1 failed... ) assasination missions.
FDL. Link at Inara, but I used HUGE Beam. 2 pulses. and 2 MC.

TLDR-version: it. is. PERFECT.

Long version:

Hostile threat level:
- A couple Annacondas Deadly and Elite still have mods. One have the heat mod, the other is... I forgot what, but it's definitely Eng mod.
- Most ships encountered still uses either missiles and/or Particl Accelerator, but there's a noticeable (2-5sec) delay between shots. No more PA-gaitling-gun.
- Smaller ships like Cobra and Eagle and a lot of the medium (Vulture/FAS-series) can still outmanuever me unless I go full-4-pip to ENG or start thrusting backward. This is the same as previous 2.1, which is still much more agile than 2.0.
- Bigger things are similar with pre-patch. Python is tough as nail and Anacondas seem to turn faster than you want it to be, and either can still shower you with a tons of lasers, BUT no more DragonBall one-thousand lasers. They can also spray you with Frags and missiles at close corner. I think Annie's frags are turreted...
- Many ships still uses SCB as normal, the higher the rank, the more they could use it. But nothing my huge BEAM and 2 pulses can't chew through. And chaff, of course. They all love to chaff.
- Couple ships in wings could pull away if they're lower rank, or their lead is killed.
- Many ships behaves like they would run away at 40% hull or lower. (1 Cobra did actually get away.)
- Ships agility, AI, and firepower makes them ALL HARDER than 2.0. Especially higher rank ones. But it's now not impossible to sneak onto an elite Annaconda and walked away if you don't make mistakes.
I took on 3 of them and got overconfidence on the 3rd, I started with 50% hull and not fully behind him. He managed to out-turn me and rammed me to oblivion when my shield is nearly gone. Too late to hit SCB.
Compared to pre-patch, I'm lucky to get away with more than 10% hull against most Annacondas.
- No, I don't get better overtime. Same ship. Same loadout.
- Compared to 2.0, I could back-to-back-to-back Annacondas with 100% hull. On my Vulture.
- Ships are a little less kamikaze and a lot more complex in behaviour. They could run away while regen, or give up before the fight start, or avoid me altogether. Or try to boost away in a losing fight.
They also don't aggro unexpectedly, would actually give warning, or completely ignore me when I have zero cargo.
One USS-hunt mission a pack of 4 Master/Dangerous Cobra spawned. They gave me a warning after checking my cargo. Then opened fire. And I had to run away. Not impossible, and no more barrage of PA and rails (actually, didn't notice any railgun at all last night) or overkill lasers. Just coordinated.
- I did not get interdicted in one system where the assasination mission gave me a 15k bounty. Then again, I don't stay around that system longer than I need to.
- Police cruisers are super killer and would actually aggro any bad guys without touching me (when I don't have bounty). And speaking of non-aggro...
- Best part: I accidentally sprayed an elite MINER python in a hazres TWICE while we're both attacking the same conda. After the conda dead, he did NOT aggro to me. He just went on his way while I was turning pale as my shield were practically gone and I got no more SCB....


Seriously.

The only thing this patch can do better is if suddenly that Python in my last example would say "nice teamwork, Commander."


Then I'll blow my mind. LOL

 

[who?]

The AI became self aware and said: "Nope! I'm keeping these!!!" ?

My god Sarah! What have you done!!!

Give an NPC a fish, and he has upgrades for a day.
Teach an NPC to fish, and he's upgraded for a lifetime.

 

[Davadin]

Give an NPC a fish, and he has upgrades for a day.
Teach an NPC to fish, and he's upgraded for a lifetime.

I don't even know where to start applauding you for this.


This brought tears to my eyes.

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

Ran into 2 long fights with a Vulture and then a FDL at middling-high ranks, both one on one. I didn't initiate and alpha them from the rear, and was in a laden trading A-rated Python. Both fights went a long distance, and the Python won because of attrition over time, with heavy damage taken.

This is good balance. It's possible to survive in a well equipped multirole, but the fights are costly and risky. Dedicated combat pirate AI poses a serious threat, but not an impossible threat , to a less maneuverable big target ship. Wouldn't recommend people hunt ranked Vultures in a loaded up Python, no sir. That is to me, exactly where it should be.

The 2 fights allowed the game to showcase a couple other things: turrets seem to work pretty well now, and I need some point defense modules.

 

[NeilUK02]

Two ships gone in an hour, Interdicted by a Python first time, submit, try and boost and jump away. Two shots, thrusters and FSD disabled, sitting duck. Federal Agents message comes onscreen they are responding. Nothing happens. Reboot ship, FSD starts charging, immediately cancelled with a missile hit. Offline again. More Federal Agent messages , coming to help. Nothing. Reboot again, one missile everything offline again. Finally destroyed. 1.5m lost.
Then interdicted by an Asp. Same again , two or three hits, Thrusters disabled. FSD charging, canopy breached. Finally jump away only to be interdicted again, I am now at 16%, Federal Agents arrive, 3 of them., I think OK now I'll be ok. They leave. Destroyed again, I am allied with the Federation and the local faction. No bounty. Another 1.5m lost, never had a chance to defend myself. Doesn't seem to me that Engineered weapons have gone. Lost 3m in an hour with no chance to survive

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Can't vote in a thread where it doesn't apply to my gameplay style. But, I'd imagine when engaging for the pew-pew action it does sound a lot better. Didn't notice any less harassment by magically appearing NPCs with 2.0 or 2.1. Still the same arcade gimmick FD uses to keep many commanders annoyed and running in disgust.

Tonight I think I'll just ditch the whole concept of "do what you want" and do just what FD wants and that is apparently to do pew-pew. Think I'll start being the obnoxious guy who hangs around starting planets just to pick on noobs. FD would probably like that, they coded it in for the NPCs which means they must promote such things.

Probably have some feedback regarding this type of play style some time tonight.

If you get interdicted too much consider unpledging from power (it always increase interdictions), and check out system security level in map. If you visit medium and low security systems, you again vill have lot of pirates willing to take on you.

 

[Crazy Jedi]

I take it the plan is to put back the uber weapons after the bugs are sorted? I hope not.....
i don't find the inclusion of insta-death weapons appealing at all, on an npc ship or my own.... Where's the fun in combat, smuggling or trading if at any given moment- Boom- rebuy screen! That's not elite dangerous, it's elite lottery.
I love the concept of the engineers update but I'm a bit worried about the affects it's going to have. ED was always a tricky game with regard to balance with frequent rebalancing done on ships, missiles, torpedoes etc. Add in to the mix module modding and,,,,,,, well this could end up being a massive can of worms in the end that may create more work for the devs.

As far as I can tell, going for a spin in anything other than my FAS may be suicidal ��

 

[W4rSkuLL]

Two ships gone in an hour, Interdicted by a Python first time, submit, try and boost and jump away. Two shots, thrusters and FSD disabled, sitting duck. Federal Agents message comes onscreen they are responding. Nothing happens. Reboot ship, FSD starts charging, immediately cancelled with a missile hit. Offline again. More Federal Agent messages , coming to help. Nothing. Reboot again, one missile everything offline again. Finally destroyed. 1.5m lost.
Then interdicted by an Asp. Same again , two or three hits, Thrusters disabled. FSD charging, canopy breached. Finally jump away only to be interdicted again, I am now at 16%, Federal Agents arrive, 3 of them., I think OK now I'll be ok. They leave. Destroyed again, I am allied with the Federation and the local faction. No bounty. Another 1.5m lost, never had a chance to defend myself. Doesn't seem to me that Engineered weapons have gone. Lost 3m in an hour with no chance to survive

Popcorn time [haha], all good things are 3. Next time you will survive Or maybe not

 

[Ayra]

I like it personally. I did a variety of things yesterday, and faced things from Mostly Harmless to Elite in my in-progress Courier.

The Mostly Harmless deserves its name: It took nearly 10 seconds just to deploy its hard points, so it's excellent for new players to fight. The Elite is also worthy of its name: I first faced an Elite Sidewinder and I ended up using all my very limited Shield Cell Banks and taking 2% hull damage. Later on I saw an Elite Adder and decided to take it on despite having no SCB remaining. I improved my strategy during the fight and won without losing my shields (barely) and it took over 900 multi-cannon ammo from both guns, but that fight honestly made me a better pilot (plus it dropped exactly the material I most wanted, conveniently enough). I faced a Deadly Diamondback Explorer (mission NPC) later on and using my new skills it went much better than against the Sidewinder and Adder. Despite the 90k received from the Diamondback (I didn't know they could give that much), it's a lot less credits than effortlessly chain-killing Pythons and Fer-De-Lance in a fraction of the time... But it's more fun and challenging, and that's the most important part.

As a side note, while the Elite NPCs did feel like they had an endless stack of Shield Cell Banks and Chaffs, they did eventually run out. I think it's really player bias that makes us think they are cheating: 11 chaff lasts a long, long time during a battle.