Discuss AI here (After Engineer mods removal)

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

I voted "Other":

I think the AI is bad. It's not a matter of hard or easy.
Fought against an Elite FAS while flying a FAS. The only thing the NPC tried was to get as close as possible and facing me. This resulted in both ships basically touching each other and every move I did was instantly countered by the NPC. The NPC didn't try to get out of my weapons fire. Simple braindead "Face enemy-get close-shot".
This dance lasted until the security ships arrived and at that point the NPC did only "boost - u-turn - boost - fire" while most of the time ignoring any other incoming fire from the NPCs (at first Vipers and Eagles, later an Anaconda joined the party).

An Elite Anaconda had a similar "script" - U-turn, fire, ram. It rammed itself to death (I was flying a FDS).

No, hard or easy is something completely different.

 

[Smaste]

you have some mental problems ?

None at all my friend, that I know of anyway!

Just thought it was funny imagining a military vessel re-purposed for mining, considering its tiny jump range, limited - albeit better than a Condas' - cargo rack. Cutter seems like a better option!

It's sort of like a mining Fer-De-Lance over a mining Clipper/Python/Type 7!

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

> Say what?!

Take me out to the black
Tell them I ain't comin' back
Burn the land and boil the sea
You can't take my HAZRES from me

http://i.imgur.com/SezMnOw.gif

 

[matthepple1]

I have to be honest, the changes were unfair, the AI could destroy you so quickly no matter what ship. It then made trading, mining almost impossbile because you would die each night. Little explainantion has occured re engineers, is it for Elite Dangerous, or Horizons well my experience says its a mess and I cant get into it at all. Elite Dangerous if you deciced to be fighter (get insurance!) is very one sided. I actually have not killed an NPC for days and have down graded my ship twice. I have also been intradicted by some really bad dudes and just fired upon for no reason. So the "changes" do not seem to have made too much difference ata ll to me. Love the game, just it's not a game anymore, I dont enjoy it. Gutted.

 

[Ziljan]

they could use some loading tooltips that say Hey! Your shields last 150% longer if you use 4 pips! For the people who probably don't realise just how important 4 pips sys is.

This could work, but it should be optional. The game is currently already bombarding us with obvious information. Tool tips should always be optional. But maybe default to start, since clearly about 20% of players can't find all the buttons on their joystick without looking yet.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I think my problem is more with the current state of ship and equipment balancing than it is with the AI anymore. The removal of mods gives me a fighting chance, but the current state of balance means that the ship I spent hundreds of hours grinding to get is still more or less ineffective.

Because "grinding for hundreds of hours" doesn't guarantee you can win dogfight. This isn't RPG. It's down to skill and outfitting choices.

 

[JonnyC0mbat]

Does anyone practice their combat skills in CQC? It's a good place to learn the ropes without worrying about rebuys or losing your evenings progress.

I've started playing it again recently and not to sound too mean but most pilots are not good. Perfect learning tool right there.

 

[Smaste]

Because "grinding for hundreds of hours" doesn't guarantee you can win dogfight. This isn't RPG. It's down to skill and outfitting choices.

...and grinding many hours for engineering modifications! ^^

 

[Ziljan]

Does anyone practice their combat skills in CQC? It's a good place to learn the ropes without worrying about rebuys or losing your evenings progress.

I've started playing it again recently and not to sound too mean but most pilots are not good. Perfect learning tool right there.

To start, CQC matches you with mostly other beginners. As your kill ratio and rank increases, they will match you against better and better pilots.

Indeed it is a great place to learn.

 

[JohnCarter]

Gotta be careful, though. Threat 0 salvage USS in low-sec and anarchy systems may be ambushes.

I have seen this. Had a great time with a cobra as I was salvaging materials. I was in my Clipper and he came in guns blazing. I had 3 more materials to pick up with my limpits, all the time watching my shields. He knocked my shields down to 1 ring. After all the materials were safely in my cargo bay, I went into battle mode. He kept talking smack and performing some surprising evasive maneuvers while I was knocking down his shields with my class 2 pulse lasers. I noticed he was dangerous rank. After I got his shields down his smack turned to " forget this I'm outa here " but alas he was mass locked. I then opened up with my class 3 multicannons-- gee I really like that add on--- and quickly turned his hull into Swiss cheese. Boom he was gone. Was a great time .

 

[Mazhurg]

> Say what?!

Take me out to the black
Tell them I ain't comin' back
Burn the land and boil the sea
You can't take my HAZRES from me

HAZRES are essentially player wings playground and as such should have a treat and difficulty level adequate to challenge them. Hence my saying that to go in such solo should be a highly risky venture, no matter your skill level.

 

[SenatorPerry]

Were you you on a mission? These NPCs are almost always mission spawns. Their rank/ship is tied to the rank/payout of the mission. They will also spawn if you are wanted in another system, bounty hunters have warrant scanners too

Personally, the unexpected assassins coming to claim my bounty from another system is one of my favorite things about 2.1. I've heard nothing but praise about this mechanic, even from non-combat folks. Probably because they think we deserve it!

No. Not on a mission. Undermining and only pulling wanted ships. Twice the super NPC has forced me to run from multiple jumps away to help out my wings.

So I think the question is what do I mean by a Super NPC. In a normal system all ships are carrying on a mission of some sort. Trade, visiting, security, or general pirating. The Super NPC is a ship that has only one purpose, which is to attach to the person that they message. They go after no other ships unless a human fires on them. No other ships interdict them. They drop in on your low wake even minutes after you have been near idle. They attack with overwhelming force and even if you jump away they will jump to supercruise and interdict again. They ALSO can have a damaged hull from fighting you, you jump, and when they interdict you again they are at 100% hull.

You can pick these folks out because the message they send will only go to one person in a wing. Often they will spawn right behind you while in supercruise. And it isn't a mission guiding their actions. They pick different people in my wing including overwhelming new players. They take out modules like a FSD. My canopy was busted in my FAS while I was running from a Super NPC FAS. He was behind me, but canopy busted and 70% shields up.

Gather up 90+ merits in an undermining system. Fly around. Eventually a message pops like "They told me you would be here" or "There is a big bounty on you" which is often very low or nothing.

It is my guess that these are probably a majority of the complaints even if they don't recognize the NPC is not like the others. PvP is normal for me, so having an NPC that outflies and outguns the best in ED's Milky Way like Carorack, Alexander the Grape, Ray the         is just not something I want. It is okay though. My wing is now down to only 2 other players as the rest have pulled the plug.

The AI changes for the normal NPC are fine. Eliminate this super NPC with the characteristics above and we could get back to the fun. Or not.

 

[matemaster]

None at all my friend, that I know of anyway!

Just thought it was funny imagining a military vessel re-purposed for mining, considering its tiny jump range, limited - albeit better than a Condas' - cargo rack. Cutter seems like a better option!

It's sort of like a mining Fer-De-Lance over a mining Clipper/Python/Type 7!

Clearly you have no idea that corvette is the most efficient mining ship
320t cargo, 11 collectors, 1600MJ shields, 8A distributor can manage 3 medium mining lasers
Cutter can have more cargo, more limpets but its all redundant because 7A distributor cant handle 3 medium mining lasers
Conda with simmilar config will have much less cargo space than corvette

 

[Rankaze]

No. Not on a mission. Undermining and only pulling wanted ships.

Oh. Powerplay.

Suddenly all is clear. Faction NPC's seem to have become rather vicious since 2.1, yes.

 

[Jypson]

HAZRES are essentially player wings playground and as such should have a treat and difficulty level adequate to challenge them. Hence my saying that to go in such solo should be a highly risky venture, no matter your skill level.

I see what you're getting at, and that is one vision. My vision for HAZRES' is a proving ground for solo CMDR's to test their might mano y mano. Every other RES is swamped with Sec ships applying their craft. I think a HAZRES should be a haven for solo CMDR's who appreciate a good fair fight, or 5 or 10 [yesnod]

Sure wings can go in and mop up too, but I think it should be solo friendly as well.

 

[Mazhurg]

the ship I spent hundreds of hours grinding to get is still more or less ineffective.

My take on this, and it will probably get roasted is this but:

There is a large segment of the current player base that got their ranking (and ships) by essentially grinding their rank up via shooting fishes in a barrel. Their ranks are way above their actual skill levels and now that Frontier has finally fixed the NPCs (notwithstanding the engineers mods) their actual skill levels or lack of is acutely showing. The game was what it was and people will always take the path of least resistance.

Now the game is finally spawning skilled NPCs with ranks that roughly match the player's official ranks and they end up on the losing hand in fights.

I would suggest to those players to either petition FD to have their rank reduced or maybe this is a case where clearing the save and starting anew will help in coping with the NPCs as they will be able to properly develop their skills as the AI ranks generated are linked to the players.

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

To early to vote yet, had only one fight after the fix so far, but that was in an A rated Trutter with topside pulse turrets and forward gimballed multis vs an expert powerplay Anaconda. Two rings of my shields went, the Conda went down. Looking promising.

 

[WR3ND]

...

Sure wings can go in and mop up too, but I think it should be solo friendly as well.

Aren't they already? Should be at least some things out there to offer some challenge for people who are up for it, I mean, without artificially handicapping themselves.

 

[Jypson]

Aren't they already? Should be at least some things out there to offer some challenge for people who are up for it.

I'm not saying they aren't. I was simply sharing my counter-vision for HAZRES'.

 

[WR3ND]

I'm not saying they aren't. I was simply sharing my counter-vision for HAZRES'.

Ah, I see. It can be difficult keeping up with the specific contexts of these discussions.

Cheers.