Discuss the AI here!

[Ovion]

Vote: Other.
Reason:
Something is bugged to hell.
Especially Pythons it seems.

Either the AI is too good (unlikely with the times its taking to kill players, Pythons especially), or something is bugged.
Regardless, I can't exactly tell the quality of the AI as it stands.

Losing 35mil to repeated kills in 7 hours of play, most being less than 30 seconds to drop my python from full shields + health to the rebuy screen, ultimately not wanting to take my Python out again because I have one rebuys worth of Credits left and 2 more deaths means I lose the ship.
(To clarify - nothing I faced at any point was better than competent at best, I'm trading in a reasonably quiet / safe zone    .)

Something is very wrong.

 

[archeolog108]

It really is heart warming to read all the stories from the veterans here about how much they enjoying the game right now...shame the new players here can't say the same. Feels like I get my teeth kicked in just for daring to try and move from one system to the next. Pointless game now can't make any progress hence can't get better gear...right now, my guns are doing nothing more than making my jump range shorter.

But hey...don't let such a silly noob who just had his legs cut off and told to run a marathon ruin the party fer those who have the resources to survive and mock those of us who don't ^^

Learn how to avoid interdictions and pick you fights. Use intelligence.

 

[Bokugo]

incidentally i think also a lot of people are saying about using flight assist off. do xbox players even have that ability? i use a controller on pc and FA off would just make things far too complicated, and i think this will also factor into an AI discussion - we dont all have proper flightsticks and rudder pedals to play. it doesnt make a difference to the op npc weapon issue however.

I'm using a ps3 controller and can quite easily switch between Fa on/off just by clicking in both thumbsticks. The customizability of the controls pretty much makes every control option viable.

 

[Moonax IRL]

It really is heart warming to read all the stories from the veterans here about how much they enjoying the game right now...shame the new players here can't say the same. Feels like I get my teeth kicked in just for daring to try and move from one system to the next. Pointless game now can't make any progress hence can't get better gear...right now, my guns are doing nothing more than making my jump range shorter.

But hey...don't let such a silly noob who just had his legs cut off and told to run a marathon ruin the party fer those who have the resources to survive and mock those of us who don't ^^

On a side note, you know you can select the economic route for jump range which will let you travel further for your fuel amount. Add me as a friend if you want, cmdr name is as shown and we can wing up. We can earn some credits and get you upgraded in quick fashion, the offer is there.

 

[Cmdr Roma]

Now dangerous AI is in game. It was missing! All NPC were too easy. Now if you not engage anything above Competent, you should be fine. Just look at the damn rank and not act as a bull and not charge at everything. If you want not dangerous gameplay, go try American Truck Simulator. It is great and safe.

You missing some rather important detail here, it's not a case of new players targeting Harmless or Elite pilots. They interdict the player and if they do as a new player you are dead. I keep saying this but I am not a new player and I'm not in a cheap ship, an A-rated Vulture and an A-Rated Asp both destroyed in less than 15 seconds.

However lets see what these changes to balancing bring, may be all we need, I don't want NPCs to be cannon fodder but I do want it to be a fair challenge which it isn't at the moment

 

[TiberiusKirk]

Now dangerous AI is in game. It was missing! All NPC were too easy. Now if you not engage anything above Competent, you should be fine. Just look at the damn rank and not act as a bull and not charge at everything. If you want not dangerous gameplay, go try American Truck Simulator. It is great and safe.

Ah, the old Truck Simulator reference - I'd been missing that.

I honestly don't know about NPCs - because they run away. I appreciate that may be realistic, but your AI programmer needs to keep a mantra in her head - 'is this fun?'

As for me - I'll vote with other feet. I bought the update, but I won't for my smart son - he thinks the whole concept is boring.

 

[Chummy62]

The alternative is to wait a month or so and "No Man's Sky" will be released for PC and PS4. Less space combat focused, more adventure and discovery. Play difficulty set much more realisticly towards the average gamer and not the hard core jet fighter jocks. No Man's Sky difficulty scales up as you adventure towards the core instead of making everything ludicrous.

Steve Irwin is dead by the way. RIP Steve. It was more difficult swimming with rays than Steve realized.

 

[archeolog108]

Vote: Other.
Reason:
Something is bugged to hell.
Especially Pythons it seems.

Either the AI is too good (unlikely), or something is bugged.

Losing 35mil to repeated kills in 7 hours of play, most being less than 30 seconds to drop my python from full shields + health to the rebuy screen, ultimately not wanting to take my Python out again because I have one rebuys worth of Credits left and 2 more deaths means I lose the ship.

Something is very wrong.

They use modified weapons and your shields will not help you. You need to have modified shields.

 

[majogl]

In my opinion the AI is just right now... It just seems to be way better, because NPCs have all the upgrades... Last night i had to run from a python in my A-spec FDL, and he caught up and killed me despite me having 4 pips on engines.
If the NPCs werent so far ahead with the updates, the AI level would be clearer.

 

[TiberiusKirk]

Learn how to avoid interdictions and pick you fights. Use intelligence.

Do you mean: pick 'your' fights. And, use 'your' intelligence'?

I'm a bit concerned about you bandying about the word intelligence here with such arrogance.

 

[Codger]

Unless the mechanic has changed in the latest patch, it is you that is incorrect about the reservoir on systems for shields.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrSXvCEergY

Thank you for that, the misinformation was getting on my nerves. Repped.

 

[vermu]

I'm a veteran, and I think the game has taken some poor directions. I also think it isn't fun enough - but FD will soon realise that when the cash stops coming in.

These boards can still be quite helpful, but there are a lot of 'hardcore' players these days who seem to have taken over, who want to make this minor success even less playable..

For discussion you could head over to Reddit. But - I hope - you can still post politely here and get a decent response without being called a noob etc.

I'm a founder, but was immediately called a 'snowflake' - whatever that means.

Anyway, welcome to the game.

SJA said that lower end npc's will become easier and higher end tougher. I don't think we have yet that easier lower end npc in place. So when that comes I think ppl will calm a bit. Then there's something for everybody.

 

[zz9pa]

Taken out again...

I'm in an imperial eagle this time 4 pips in engines and completely unable to get a line of sight to an "dangerous" imperial courier - he's disabled my thrusters and fsd and now i'm lost him after running at maximum speed - unable to slow and unable to jump.
Dead in the water..


Reboot got her back moving.
But - an ieagle with enhanced thrusters should be able to get a line of fire to an NPC icourier at least once....


Anyone recommend any "dashcam" type software for recording this stuff ?
(ie - something with some rolling 10 minute buffer)

 

[lysan]

Ah, the old Truck Simulator reference - I'd been missing that.

I honestly don't know about NPCs - because they run away. I appreciate that may be realistic, but your AI programmer needs to keep a mantra in her head - 'is this fun?'

As for me - I'll vote with other feet. I bought the update, but I won't for my smart son - he thinks the whole concept is boring.

Yeah its fun, very much so. It wasn't before, that was boring. But it gave me a lot of free time to play DCS and DayZ, now they need to take a rest for a while.

 

[Privata]

Don't think so mate, it will be more spread out, but if you have a high combat rank, and fight back = bounty hunting, the NPC will wake up.
If not, say you're running away, it will not be as aggressive as it can be.

So as I understood it, if you go bounty hunting, it will not be easier if you have a high combat rank, and fight back.

Its pathetic , but I have that feeling of being sick... a horrible feeling in my neck linked the the potiential AI downgrade will be gone.
I love all of it , and no I am not a pure combat player.

I also mine , explore , trade and even salvage and with this new upgrade nothing has changed sins 2.0 for me because now I just need to think and look at the situation and it will be fine.

The original elite games were full of danger , ruthless AI , ships that would stop at nothing to kill you. yes you could save scum but if the devs could stop that they would.
I just get the feeling that my ''kind'' of gamer is not wanted and everything has to be aimed at a casual audiance who dont play the game much , would switch to the next best one and want everything to be easy...

I hope FD find a way to please both but I just get the feeling that alpha backers , beta backers and hardcore players dont matter to any dev anywere... its all ubisoft style game were danger and adventure is thematic rather than gampelay.

Most of my best moments in elite are close calls
-Being interdicted be a wing of 10 eagles and getting away in a adder (it was early in wings and it was buggy and the AI winged up too much lol)
-Being hunted all around alioth by a pirate player who wanted me dead.
-Avoiding a full wave of anacondas whiles scooping cargo.
-Seing a fully rendered 3D nebula
-When a CMDR says hello in open (allways nice)

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Do you mean: pick 'your' fights. And, use 'your' intelligence'?

I'm a bit concerned about you bandying about the word intelligence here with such arrogance.

I dont think he means it like that. everyone who plays this game is clever and can adapt. I believe in this community

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Yeah its fun, very much so. It wasn't before, that was boring. But it gave me a lot of free time to play DCS and DayZ, now they need to take a rest for a while.

2.0 combat was a bore indeed... so was 1.5 , 1.4 , 1.3 , 1.2 it was good during beta but it broke at some point and now its fixed (apart from the wierd rare cases of instant kill weapons... dont understand whats up with that)

 

[Nagata's Reaper]

Learn how to avoid interdictions and pick you fights. Use intelligence.

I really hope you're obliterated by a sidewinder before you obtain sufficient engineer upgrades... and it will happen.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

The alternative is to wait a month or so and "No Man's Sky" will be released for PC and PS4. Less space combat focused, more adventure and discovery. Play difficulty set much more realisticly towards the average gamer and not the hard core jet fighter jocks. No Man's Sky difficulty scales up as you adventure towards the core instead of making everything ludicrous.

Steve Irwin is dead by the way. RIP Steve. It was more difficult swimming with rays than Steve realized.

if nms is delayed from june date as i heard you may have long wait.

i am suddenly getting lots of expert level interdicts, and im not sure if one was bugged - i was fighting an eagle but it got behind me and two police dropped in. as my shield was low i boosted that way to get space to turn but by time i had slowed and turned the police had finished the eagle. yet i didnt get the bounty for the wanted pilot notified top right info panel, so i may not have gotten the bounty. it said contact lost instead.

the second was a vulture. was shaping up to be a good fight but we collided and he had some shield left after. he seemed to be targetting my thrusters. the eagle only damage i got was to cargo hatch - down to 95%. he really wants the 1 ton meta alloys lol. well did. i had to flee the vulture to go get fixed up. 29k damage. im giving up scanning the planets here and carry on my journey but the AI seems more fun when it has fair weapon loadout. even when they are higher level than me.

 

[Kapow]

Wow... what a lot to read!
The answer to the poll (in my eyes) is yes to all. Can it be changed to please everyone? Perhaps...

"It's too easy!"

Moving forward, it won't be. High ranks will use adaptive logic. Means the harder you fight, the harder the AI fights. Should hopefully mean a good challenge for skilled players.

"It's just right."

Perhaps, but I want to take it down a notch and throw in more tactics to create a more enjoyable and less predictable experience.

"It's too hard!"

I hear ya... Adaptive logic could dynamically downgrade AI performance to give players a chance. E.g. player is fleeing... Pirate AI could downgrade its weapon accuracy and boosting ability, giving the player a good chance to escape.

Well, just some of my thoughts.

I'm Sorry. Really sorry. I've just read this and it has raised every hair on my head. Adaptive AI is the worst type of AI I can possibly think of. What it means in translation:

If you are rubbish, so is the AI so you can "enjoy" the game by killing all AI
If you are good - you get challenge, so you are not bored, but you still kill everything or run away....

Where are the days when Elite meant Elite and if you were rubbish player you got killed by Elite AI. Yes Killed, blown up to dust, made feel like you were a useless pilot. It also makes the world corrupted for players who shouldn't be able to achieve something, just to make them feel good - Nanny state style...

It has been some time, but years ago I've played a hard dungeon in GW2 (guild wars 2 ) Aether path and it took my group 5 hours to complete and only a very small percentage of the players got to complete it. It felt like an achievement. With adaptive AI I can kill a wing of 5 Anacondas (or run away at any point) with Elite status and I will feel nothing as it won't be an achievement when I see a video of somebody with little pilot skill do the same 2 days later...

Adaptive AI (in terms of difficulty) is in my opinion the biggest abomination ever made in Games since the dawn of time to keep everybody happy... It is the compromise that kills all achievements for the sake of cry babies who simply complain instead of learning how to fly....

Your work (and your teams) on AI for 2.1 is amazing. I applaud you, but please for the love of all that is good in games today - please do not do adaptive AI... It will single handedily wipe away any achievement and also put people who play in open in a terrible position of being completely unprepared for real encounters with players who don't act like the AI and don't get dummer with low skill.

PS Excuse my spelling - written in an affect after reading your post. I'm sure you are doing great work on AI - 2.1 is the absolute proof of that and I congratulate you, but please do succumb to the group of players who want this game to be playable by 5 year olds....

 

[Privata]

''No Man's Sky difficulty scales up as you adventure towards the core instead of making everything ludicrous.''
That sounds stupid... how does that make sens?
Elite is ''realistic'' its all based on the BGS , everything has its meaning and depth in elite

 

[lysan]

Its pathetic , but I have that feeling of being sick... a horrible feeling in my neck linked the the potiential AI downgrade will be gone.
I love all of it , and no I am not a pure combat player.

I also mine , explore , trade and even salvage and with this new upgrade nothing has changed sins 2.0 for me because now I just need to think and look at the situation and it will be fine.

The original elite games were full of danger , ruthless AI , ships that would stop at nothing to kill you. yes you could save scum but if the devs could stop that they would.
I just get the feeling that my ''kind'' of gamer is not wanted and everything has to be aimed at a casual audiance who dont play the game much , would switch to the next best one and want everything to be easy...

I hope FD find a way to please both but I just get the feeling that alpha backers , beta backers and hardcore players dont matter to any dev anywere... its all ubisoft style game were danger and adventure is thematic rather than gampelay.

Most of my best moments in elite are close calls
-Being interdicted be a wing of 10 eagles and getting away in a adder (it was early in wings and it was buggy and the AI winged up too much lol)
-Being hunted all around alioth by a pirate player who wanted me dead.
-Avoiding a full wave of anacondas whiles scooping cargo.
-Seing a fully rendered 3D nebula
-When a CMDR says hello in open (allways nice)

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I dont think he means it like that. everyone who plays this game is clever and can adapt. I believe in this community

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2.0 combat was a bore indeed... so was 1.5 , 1.4 , 1.3 , 1.2 it was good during beta but it broke at some point and now its fixed (apart from the wierd rare cases of instant kill weapons... dont understand whats up with that)

Well, if they dumb it down, then my trusted ship will be turned into a PvP nightmare an start to raise havoc, I'd even join the CODE!
however I don't believe FD will do that.