Disproportionate response by security.

[_trent_]

The SA ships have always been quick to jump on a cmdr who hits a clean ship or before the scan is complete, but pre-2.1 this normally meant being chased out of the RES site by a couple of cops in Vipers or Eagles. Now, the player gets immediately ganked by about a dozen SA ships.
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Discussions about what would happen in real-life aren't really the issue, the real question should be: 'is this system working as the devs intended.' If the penalty for any stray shot is 'death by SA ships,' then everything is ok. If that's not what was intended then it's something the devs should be looking at.
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My personal feeling is that if the devs think the player's ship should be immediately vaporised by the local fuzz for a stray shot, why do they bother with issuing a 300-400cr 5 minute bounty?

 

[srfrogg23]

In real life, if you shoot an innocent person, you can argue he was in the line of fire, but that won't stop police from taking you into custody, and you will face a trial. Since ED doesn't have prisons, the only punishment against any crime is always death.

I think it makes sense, within the limitations of the game.

Regarding the issue: I am very careful when cops are around. If I am not sure the shot will land on target, I don't pull the trigger. It doesn't annoy me in the least, and I think it adds flavour and immersion to the game. When the odd shot hits a cop that came out of nowhere, I fly away shouting "Sorry!".

There's another not-so-reality "reality" argument.

You can be arrested for discharging your firearm in a public place WITHOUT HITTING ANYONE. You don't event have to accidentally hit some poor schmuck that walked in front of your bullet. Hell, even cops get into trouble for doing that without having a very compelling reason for doing so.

ED is not representative of real life. Please don't start firing a gun in the middle of a mall and expect to not be arrested because you didn't accidentally kill someone...

If ED worked like real life, you would be arrested just for opening fire in a public place. Even the Security guys would get into a lot of trouble, have to fill out a crapload of paperwork, and probably lose their jobs. They might even serve jail-time themselves.

Lol, stop with the "but in real life..." arguments. They just sound silly when applied to video game mechanics.

 

[deathcoy]

Should just implement a warning system like in other space sim games like the X series. First few shots, the NPC will give a warning, subsequent shots they turn hostile. A tested and proven mechanic. Plenty of games have adopted it including other genres.

 

[Spacecat]

No no no stop all this analogues with RL nonsense.

You're in a spaceship, shooting trigger-happy psychotic spacecops who are just itching for any opportunity to mash stuff and get a commission bonus.

Actually, it's not that far from RL, is it...?

Yeah, do you really think if you see the cops shooting it out with a bad guy, you can swoop in there and take him out and they'll give you $100,000? I don't think so.

 

[kofeyh]

Then when we find our next pay packet for what ever reason we attack before the scan has finished or the police join in and they fly in the path of your projectiles.

"Crime is a joke, there needs to be greater consequences for all crime" <insert numerous nodding heads in nodding head agreement here>

I see no problem beyond commanders only wanting laws and regulations applying to other people. Funny that.

 

[kofeyh]

Should just implement a warning system like in other space sim games like the X series. First few shots, the NPC will give a warning, subsequent shots they turn hostile. A tested and proven mechanic. Plenty of games have adopted it including other genres.

NPC security forces do actually often warn commanders regarding "friendly fire". The issue isn't shooting at cops. It's that people are fixated on shooting AI, and there's precious little situational awareness. I should expect even with a deafening klaxon, cops all yelling at you over comms, the same threads will appear.

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Also arguing real-life always amuses me; because actual bounty hunters (eg in the US) typically don't go around blasting their quarry with AK47s, and don't accidentally shoot at cops because they get in the way when they are terminating a bounty. They can locate, attempt to detain (presumably there are licenses and there needs to be some kind of deputised agent in attendance?) and then hand over to law enforcement.

It would be like us finding a wanted Viper Mk 3, detaining the pilot and dragging them back to the nearest station. Perhaps we should do that instead? Shoot the viper, drops the pilot and we scoop them up to hand the actual perp in back at the system their crime occurred in. Much more realistic. I'm sure that'd be pretty good, right? *cough*

 

[srfrogg23]

"Crime is a joke, there needs to be greater consequences for all crime" <insert numerous nodding heads in nodding head agreement here>

I see no problem beyond commanders only wanting laws and regulations applying to other people. Funny that.

When you fly into a Security NPCs line of fire, they don't gain a bounty, no matter how much or little damage they cause.

When Security and Bounty Hunter NPCs witness you committing a crime, they don't waste any time scanning you before dropping what they're doing to waste you - all at the same time like they share a telepathic link.

If you witness an NPC commit a crime, you gain a bounty by not scanning them before shooting. You are then attacked by Security, Bounty Hunters, and the Wanted NPCs (all while Security and the Bounty Hunters conveniently ignore the presence and activity of the Wanted NPC).

Why do Wanted NPCs have "Report Crimes Against Me" turned on anyway? Wouldn't reporting the crime to Security just attract Security, effectively ensuring the Wanted NPC would be killed either way??? At least, they might survive if they're only fighting a single player... Talk about dumb criminals.

I'm pretty sure there is already a double standard enforced by the game. So... Yeah, it needs to be looked at because the "KILL KILL KILL AAAARGH!" response is more than just a little over the top when you perform the same actions as the NPCs.

(And no, you're not "requesting authorization". You're performing a scan, which is exactly what everything in the UI says you are doing. Scanning provides objective data, it says nothing about "requesting authorization" from anyone.)

 

[EidLeWeise]

Hello Commanders!

For clarity: there is an amount of "friendly fire" damage that you can deal without triggering a crime, but I'm afraid a single missile deals more than this amount; "blob" damage is what missiles are all about. Getting hit by a missile is not like getting clipped by a couple of multi-cannon rounds.

Heya Sandy!

I know that this is the 'expected' behavior of the police, but there is a slightly to the side question I'd like to ask?

You're busy fighting some wanted criminal with several hundred thousand credit bounty on his head and you somehow clip someone and get a 400 cr bounty on your head. WHY do the police go for you first rather than the big shot with several hundred thousand credit bounty on his head?

Cheers, Eid

 

[DBCloggy]

I can accept that hitting a un-scanned ship, or any un-targetted ship too many times should get you a fine, but that's all it should be, a fine. If you fail to pay that fine in 24 hours, pick up over say 6k in fines, or you manage to kill someone you haven't scanned as wanted, then you should get a bounty.

It would make sense if you only became wanted if you had a bounty, rather than just a fine. Security would only attack when you were wanted and there would be no issue. Accidentally hitting someone, but not killing them would still be punished, just not by death.

I'm pretty sure I saw in another post that the case of shooting a wanted, but un-scanned target was being looked into by FD, because they thought it strange that a wanted criminal would report crimes against themselves, especially when it would bring in security forces who would most likely wipe them out!

 

[Jack Schitt]

For clarity: there is an amount of "friendly fire" damage that you can deal without triggering a crime, but I'm afraid a single missile deals more than this amount; "blob" damage is what missiles are all about. Getting hit by a missile is not like getting clipped by a couple of multi-cannon rounds.

Just out of curiosity, has the amount of damage you can inflict without penalty ever been quantified anywhere? I managed to wing an authority ship the other day, using a Vulture with twin C3 burst lasers, and triggered the death squad with what I'm convinced was only a "single" hit, albeit a twin burst. I got out with a few tens of thousands in repair bills and a 6 minute bounty, but it was touch and go for a few seconds. It was 100% my fault, as I could see things were getting tight with a canopy full of police ships but I pushed my luck trying to get those last few shots through the gaps.

The thing is, I normally fly the Vulture with C3 pulses, and despite a few occasional accidental hits on authority ships it's a very rare day indeed that I do enough damage with a single stray shot to invoke their wrath. It would be nice to know whether the friendly fire threshold has been reduced overall, or if burst lasers are simply a liability because they can continue firing their current burst even if you let go the trigger.

You're busy fighting some wanted criminal with several hundred thousand credit bounty on his head and you somehow clip someone and get a 400 cr bounty on your head. WHY do the police go for you first rather than the big shot with several hundred thousand credit bounty on his head?

Yes, that's always been a bit odd and is arguably worse now that the authority response has been beefed up. It's as though they're all working from the "FBI's most recently wanted" list, and you become public enemy number one with your 400Cr bounty.

 

[babelfisch]

Almost everything in life has been discussed at some stage - so by your arbitrary diktat everyone should stop discussing virtually everything.

After reading the last 6 pages...
- no new suggestions
- the same discussions we already had before
- the same real life analogies
- the same dev commemt (sic!)

I didn't dictate anything, I just suggested to read the already existing discussions first. Because this way (if someone wants to start a well informed thread and discussion) he could already adress the arguments and counter-arguments in the opening post, which would lead to a more sophisticated discussion. But what do I know...

 

[xaisis]

If the AI of the security vessels was programmed to not fly into path´s of missiles or the line of fire of others.. would be grand.


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Update.

Missiles can have a long time to target, alot can happen on the way there. even more with torps.