So Frontier use the AMD UPSCALING so why not DLSS? I think the problem might rather be that unlike Fidelity FX, DLSS is only available with an NVIDIA card. The API for AMD Fidelity FX is open to whoever wants to use it I mean all graphics API'S are just a matter of a graphics option and the code to implement the COM interface or API. Also Cobra is no longer so much an engine as a hotch potch of spaghetti code that i s playing catch up with DIRECTX COM INTERFACES all the all the time. Frontier do seem to be trying to get ahead of the game(pun intended) through ditching XBOX and simplifying their target codebase it would seem.
What DLSS for when you have an RTX card?
Elite runs on current graphics cards with 4K resolution as a screen saver.
Elite runs on current graphics cards with 4K resolution as a screen saver.
Which suggests that your idea of current must be a GTX 1050?
Get up to date - on current high end cards, 4K is practical, or at least it is for me, which is all that I care about anyway.
FWIW, at the moment I'm running ultra+ settings at 5760x3240/60Hz with Nvidia DLDSR, it doesn't quite manage 120Hz at that resolution.
Omg I did not know I could do this with my 4070ti. I have a 34" ultra wide curved monitor which is native 3440x1440 so now I can use 5160x2160 with 2.25x DL for DSR !!
Thanks so much for that info Mr. Jack Winter !
DLSS 3+ for Elite Dangerous would be great too btw DEVs
Unless of course your working on Elite Deadly in which case DLSS 3+ for that would be great
Jack has a 4090, so plenty of performance available.
Im am extremely pleased with the 4070ti I bought. played only a few games with it so far ED, Starfield, Baldurs Gate 3, Path of Exile. but its performance is very very good compared to the 3060 I had before it.
![[PS4 Pro - PC] earthtone99](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/194/194606.jpg?1590051410){kind=avatar}
Earth has a 3060, so not a lot of performance available
But I’m happy with how it performs, I’ve never been Mr silky smooth, I much prefer a more filmic 30fps, except for the latency.
It’s nice if/when I can push a game higher.
o7
Fun fact, just noticed....
Frontiers dinosaur game... jurassic world evolution 2... their financial darling... ONLY has DLSS. There's no amd option... which is terrible because i don't have an rtx card
Given when you launch jwe2, the first splash screen promotes the cobra engine, its pretty safe to say that cobra supports dlss.
Frontiers dinosaur game... jurassic world evolution 2... their financial darling... ONLY has DLSS. There's no amd option... which is terrible because i don't have an rtx card
Given when you launch jwe2, the first splash screen promotes the cobra engine, its pretty safe to say that cobra supports dlss.
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There's another interesting fact.Fun fact, just noticed....
Frontiers dinosaur game... jurassic world evolution 2... their financial darling... ONLY has DLSS. There's no amd option... which is terrible because i don't have an rtx card
Given when you launch jwe2, the first splash screen promotes the cobra engine, its pretty safe to say that cobra supports dlss.
On your screen it says that the year is 2021-2023, but I start Elite and still see only 2022. Even though there have already been several updates this year.
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Yeah, always wondered that ... can be this oversight?There's another interesting fact.
On your screen it says that the year is 2021-2023, but I start Elite and still see only 2022. Even though there have already been several updates this year.
The Cobra engine used in JWE2 certainly does, but Elite: Dangerous doesn't even support TAA.
I don't know how similar these engines in these games are, but I suspect they're different enough that porting Elite to the the JWE engine would require major work, otherwise they would have done so. 'Cobra Engine' is like 'Unreal Engine'; they are long running series of tools that have multiple generations that are generally not compatible.
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I think you are confusing, the old 3d engine, and the 3d engine from the Elite 4.0 version.
Judging by the graphics and color, these are just the old and new engines.
As for not including DLSS, I think here about just afraid to hear crying from people who have graphics cards radeon.
The Cobra engine(s) have been around since year 2000 (Infestation) and Cobra has featured TAA since at least the first JWE in 2018. Any engine capable of TAA should make it relatively simple to integrate temporal upscalers like DLSS, FSR2, and XeSS.
The fact that no version of Elite: Dangerous has any sort of temporal antialiasing or upscaling strongly suggests that it's not using a version/branch of the Cobra engine that supports these features.
Based on relative marketshare among parts that could run Elite: Dangerous, there are several times as many NVIDIA GPUs that cannot run DLSS as there are Radeon GPUs. Any sort of outcry from some infinitessimally tiny minority that would have a problem with the addition of a feature that didn't harm their experience in any way would likely not be made up predominantely of Radeon users, and seems like an exeedingly far fetched reason to not integrate DLSS, especially when DLSS integegration would almost certainly imply at least TAA, which would help almost everyone.
No one is against the integration of DLSS in and of itself, but there are probably quite a few people who would be against porting the game over to a newer Cobra engine just to allow for DLSS, when that work could be used to address more salient problems...if anyone realisitically thought it ('it' being such an investment of effort) was a possibility (which it's not, because it would never pay off).
I understand what you wrote and please don't be surprised by my words, and excuse me.
I see I have 2 elites, not the Odyssey, the old one and the 4.0, I disagree with YOU on both issues.
What would make you think I was confusing 3.8 vs. 4.0, when the distinction is utterly irrelevant to this discussion? Neither active version of Elite: Dangerous (nor any prior version) has DLSS, nor any hint of features that would make DLSS easy to integrate. 4.0 is a newer version of Cobra than 3.8, but it's not the same engine as the Cobra used in JWE or JWE2, nor are those games likely using the same incarnation of the engine as most of the other Cobra games developed by Frontier in the last twenty-four years.
Also, a correction regarding my previous post. Cobra has been around since 1988, that makes it older than Unreal. There are undoubtedly a large number of largely incompatible versions of it.
So you think DLSS would be easy enough to integrate to justify the work needed, but they aren't doing it because a handful of specifically Radeon users that can't use it (rather than all those GeForce GTX users that can't use it) would somehow be offended enough to outweight the addition of the presumably cheap-to-enable DLSS?
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Not really, I have seen how DLSS works, and the question would not be from old graphics card users but from new ones.
For example: I bought an RX 79xx XT but it works worse than some RTX 4070 with DLSS enabled.
The reason that DLSS doesn't exist in Elite: Dangerous is because the game and it's engine (even 4.0's) is old and NVIDIA probably won't foot the bill for a more difficult integration than was required for F1 Manager or JWE2, which already exposed motion vector information natively. Frontier won't, maybe even can't, do it on their own as the cost vs. effort of adding it is the barrier.
If they cannot be bothered to add official support for FSR2 to JWE2 (a newer and more precient product), a game that already has a recent version of DLSS. They aren't likely to add DLSS to Elite: Dangerous, where it would take far more work, solely because of the effort invovled (which, without more active support from NVIDIA would be the same as integrating FSR2). Elite: Dangerous' problematic UI middlewear (something they've been struggling with for most of ED's life as Scaleform was discontinued in2018 mid-2017) may also be a factor.
Given Frontier's financial situation and the technical hurdles involved with this incarnation of the engine, it's entirely understandable that DLSS doesn't meet the bean counters' risk vs. reward/investment vs. return threshold.
The only RX 7000 series part on Seam's hardware survey for last month is the 7900 XTX with 0.22%. Even if we assume that the 7900 XTX, 7900 XT, 7800 XT, and 7700 XT are currently selling well, and that the Elite: Dangerous Odyssey player base is skewed more heavily to higher-end GPUs, I would be astonished if more than 1-2% of Elite: Dangerous players will be using RX 7000 series parts by the end of the year. Whatever subset of that small fraction of the player base would complain about the addition of DLSS is not going to matter one whit to Frontier's bottom line.
JWE2 has DLSS, but officially no FSR, and there don't seem to be many complaint critical of DLSS' presence. Actually, I couldn't find any. I did find several complaints about the DLSS implementation (mostly bug reports regarding visual artifacts) from people using it, but no one saying it shouldn't exist. I found one thread asking for FSR where one of the two replies was seemingly angry about the lack of FSR, but that's about it.
What is a common complaint with ED is the lack of modern AA options:
forums.frontier.co.uk
forums.frontier.co.uk
forums.frontier.co.uk
forums.frontier.co.uk
forums.frontier.co.uk
(On a related tangent, ED's AA issues mirror the problems that prompted TAA to become the default AA method for UE4 and pretty much everything else since: https://de45xmedrsdbp.cloudfront.net/Resources/files/TemporalAA_small-59732822.pdf)
Because DLSS is essentially an advanced form of TAA, and they both depend on the same information being exposed by the game engine, DLSS almost always implies a TAA option (and TAA has no baggage associated with being a competitor's solution), which would go a long way toward addressing Elite: Dangerous' aliasing issues. The inclusion of DLSS and/or TAA would also imply the ability to mod-in FSR2 (JWE2 has FSR2 mods) as, again, they all use the same information to work.
The idea that it's customer resistance holding back integration of DLSS (or any other feature) is bizarre. Far more people would laud the inclusion of DLSS in Elite: Dangerous than would complain about it.
If they cannot be bothered to add official support for FSR2 to JWE2 (a newer and more precient product), a game that already has a recent version of DLSS. They aren't likely to add DLSS to Elite: Dangerous, where it would take far more work, solely because of the effort invovled (which, without more active support from NVIDIA would be the same as integrating FSR2). Elite: Dangerous' problematic UI middlewear (something they've been struggling with for most of ED's life as Scaleform was discontinued in
Given Frontier's financial situation and the technical hurdles involved with this incarnation of the engine, it's entirely understandable that DLSS doesn't meet the bean counters' risk vs. reward/investment vs. return threshold.
The only RX 7000 series part on Seam's hardware survey for last month is the 7900 XTX with 0.22%. Even if we assume that the 7900 XTX, 7900 XT, 7800 XT, and 7700 XT are currently selling well, and that the Elite: Dangerous Odyssey player base is skewed more heavily to higher-end GPUs, I would be astonished if more than 1-2% of Elite: Dangerous players will be using RX 7000 series parts by the end of the year. Whatever subset of that small fraction of the player base would complain about the addition of DLSS is not going to matter one whit to Frontier's bottom line.
JWE2 has DLSS, but officially no FSR, and there don't seem to be many complaint critical of DLSS' presence. Actually, I couldn't find any. I did find several complaints about the DLSS implementation (mostly bug reports regarding visual artifacts) from people using it, but no one saying it shouldn't exist. I found one thread asking for FSR where one of the two replies was seemingly angry about the lack of FSR, but that's about it.
What is a common complaint with ED is the lack of modern AA options:
Anti-Aliasing after Odyssey?
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(On a related tangent, ED's AA issues mirror the problems that prompted TAA to become the default AA method for UE4 and pretty much everything else since: https://de45xmedrsdbp.cloudfront.net/Resources/files/TemporalAA_small-59732822.pdf)
Because DLSS is essentially an advanced form of TAA, and they both depend on the same information being exposed by the game engine, DLSS almost always implies a TAA option (and TAA has no baggage associated with being a competitor's solution), which would go a long way toward addressing Elite: Dangerous' aliasing issues. The inclusion of DLSS and/or TAA would also imply the ability to mod-in FSR2 (JWE2 has FSR2 mods) as, again, they all use the same information to work.
The idea that it's customer resistance holding back integration of DLSS (or any other feature) is bizarre. Far more people would laud the inclusion of DLSS in Elite: Dangerous than would complain about it.
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The reason that DLSS doesn't exist in Elite: Dangerous is because the game and it's engine (even 4.0's) is old and NVIDIA probably won't foot the bill for a more difficult integration than was required for F1 Manager or JWE2, which already exposed motion vector information natively. Frontier won't, maybe even can't, do it on their own as the cost vs. effort of adding it is the barrier.
If they cannot be bothered to add official support for FSR2 to JWE2 (a newer and more precient product), a game that already has a recent version of DLSS. They aren't likely to add DLSS to Elite: Dangerous, where it would take far more work, solely because of the effort invovled (which, without more active support from NVIDIA would be the same as integrating FSR2).
From your chart here, its only 3 weeks of work
Further, there's also an implication somewhere that frontier have or need more than one team working on the graphics / cobra engine. Will just have to assume that the needs of planet generation and a theme park are different. You'd also have to assume all versions can render a skybox and a sphere with a texture on it surely. The LOD gymnastics are pretty high on a theme park game though, jwe and planet zoo maintain amazing detail even after instantly zooming between camera altitudes.
AMD's chart. For some developers three weeks would be reasonable. For Frontier...well, we've been waiting two years for TAA, with no signs that it's forthcoming.
I think the UI stuff is a major hurdle, honestly. ED seems chained to Scaleform (which is itself built on Adobe Flash) and Scaleform is dead. Horizons brought with it a bunch of UI bugs, many of which were unaddressed for protracted periods of time. When they were finally patched, the solution was often to disable/remove the UI elements affected (anyone remember the ship recall timer on the SRV?). At the time, I thought it odd at the time that seemingly simple elements could cause such issues. In hindsight the final death of Flash and the discontinuation with Scaleform coincided closely with the end of a major ED project and an internal reshuffling to deal with their other IPs.
The game has a lot of complex UI elements that would probably take significant resources to rebuild in different middlewear and I strongly suspect this is one of the main reasons that whatever branch of Cobra that ED 4.0 based on doesn't have the same graphical feature set as Frontier's other post-2018 titles. It may well have been easier to redo the lighting and planet terrain systems in an old version that to port the UI to a new one.
Of course, this is all speculation that assumes newer Frontier titles aren't using Scaleform themselves, which I can't personally confirm as I don't play them.