DLSS Nvidia in ED ?

[CMDR Brooks]

Well if DLSS is not possible then why not FSR3 or at least FSR2?
The implemented FSR makes the game look look horrible and i barely can read my Covas-Information.
Even Reshade wont help as it doesnt recognize the edges. (I tried FXAA ,SMAA ,TAA,)

I wish they could improve at least the AA.

 

[SergMx]

Well if DLSS is not possible then why not FSR3 or at least FSR2?
The implemented FSR makes the game look look horrible and i barely can read my Covas-Information.
Even Reshade wont help as it doesnt recognize the edges. (I tried FXAA ,SMAA ,TAA,)

I wish they could improve at least the AA.

My understanding is that the people who made the 3d engine are much more qualified than the people who wrote the FSRs, so they should have their own implementation of it.

DLSS can't count here because it's a hardware part.

 

[Morbad]

Well if DLSS is not possible then why not FSR3 or at least FSR2?

DLSS and FSR2 have the same implementation hurdles. FSR3 would be even more difficult and still has issues that need to be worked out.

The implemented FSR makes the game look look horrible and i barely can read my Covas-Information.
Even Reshade wont help as it doesnt recognize the edges. (I tried FXAA ,SMAA ,TAA,)

I wish they could improve at least the AA.

FSR 1.x is spatial only (which is why it was even practical) and isn't supposed to be used without a robust AA solution, which the game does not have. So, it's no wonder the implementation is a poor one.

MSAA is thoroughly impractical while TAA has the same issues as DLSS and FSR2 (the engine doesn't expose the information required for them to work). SSAA works, but is too expensive, performance wise, to be used to a degree that eliminates jaggies.

All that's left are post-process techniques which are better than nothing, but have serious limitations.

 

[RealNC]

I just installed the game again after many years. I remember it being full of jaggies and shimmering. I thought this would have been fixed by now with things like DLSS or DLAA. It's not fixed.

What's holding up DLSS support? It works in DX11 too. Official Nvidia information for DLSS Super Resolution:

NVIDIA DLSS

Boosts frame rates and generates sharp images.

developer.nvidia.com

"Engine Requirements: DirectX 11, DirectX 12, or Vulkan based"

DLSS frame generation is only available for DX12, but DLSS upscaling is available for DX11. Seriously, ED needs this badly. Not so much for the upscaling itself, but more for the actually working anti-aliasing DLSS provides.

(FSR 2 as well, but I don't know if that one is available for DX11.)

 

[Morbad]

What's holding up DLSS support?

As mentioned in the post immediately above yours, the hold up is probably a lack of motion vector information.

NVIDIA DLSS

Boosts frame rates and generates sharp images.

developer.nvidia.com

"Engine Requirements: DirectX 11, DirectX 12, or Vulkan based"

Also under 'engine requirements':

On each evaluate call (i.e. each frame), provide:

• The raw color buffer for the frame (in HDR or LDR/SDR space).
• Screen space motion vectors that are: accurate and calculated at 16 or 32 bits per-pixel; and updated each frame.
• The depth buffer for the frame.
• The exposure value (if processing in HDR space).

 

[RealNC]

As mentioned in the post immediately above yours, the hold up is probably a lack of motion vector information.

And what's the hold up on that?

 

[Rat Catcher]

And what's the hold up on that?

A rewrite of the entire game, probably?

 

[Dragsham]

Oh a new engine? Now that's top of my list above all else, Inc a grappling hook

 

[Northpin]

A rewrite of the entire game, probably?

I really wished they did that during the Odyssey development cycle (along with other fixes) - even if it took them 6-9 more months to release the game.
Not like it did them any good to release the game as it was in May 2021.

But, yea, too bad we can only analyze things in hindsight and we're not able to peek at the future (or maybe it's a good thing after all? - i'll take my coat)

 

[Shurimal]

What's holding up DLSS support?

And leave all the AMD and Intel users out in the cold? As good as DLSS/DLAA or other proprietary solutions are, they should not be the only option available, but an extra. The first thing to implement should be TAA, but since this requires a rewrite of the engine, it's unlikely to ever happen, at least not as part of a free update. Best we can do now is post-processing AA in addition to the in-game one, and turning up the resolution scale to 1.5 or 2 if your GPU can handle it.

 

[Northpin]

And leave all the AMD and Intel users out in the cold? As good as DLSS/DLAA or other proprietary solutions are, they should not be the only option available, but an extra. The first thing to implement should be TAA, but since this requires a rewrite of the engine, it's unlikely to ever happen, at least not as part of a free update. Best we can do now is post-processing AA in addition to the in-game one, and turning up the resolution scale to 1.5 or 2 if your GPU can handle it.

Indeed, a non proprietary form of TAA would be preferable to a proprietary one - and i say this as an nvidia user for many many years

 

[SergMx]

And leave all the AMD and Intel users out in the cold? As good as DLSS/DLAA or other proprietary solutions are, they should not be the only option available, but an extra. The first thing to implement should be TAA, but since this requires a rewrite of the engine, it's unlikely to ever happen, at least not as part of a free update. Best we can do now is post-processing AA in addition to the in-game one, and turning up the resolution scale to 1.5 or 2 if your GPU can handle it.

Not quite clear on the words - aside.
Jurassic World Evolution 2 - left them out?
Console users (PS and XBOX) were left out ?

 

[Schattenmacher]

I have a 20 year old car.
Now I go to the manufacturer and ask whether they can retrofit autonomous driving as part of the warranty.
That's pretty much how I feel about this discussion.

 

[SergMx]

I have a 20 year old car.
Now I go to the manufacturer and ask whether they can retrofit autonomous driving as part of the warranty.
That's pretty much how I feel about this discussion.

Are you talking about the legacy game engine and 4.0?

 

[Northpin]

I have a 20 year old car.
Now I go to the manufacturer and ask whether they can retrofit autonomous driving as part of the warranty.
That's pretty much how I feel about this discussion.

Not quite the same, you did buy an upgrade package for your car 3 years ago (well some got it for free some like 1.5 year ago) - unfortunately, autonomous driving was not part of the deal so you still dont have it

 

[Morbad]

And what's the hold up on that?

I'd guess it would take porting the game over to a different branch of Cobra, which would probably involve a lot of asset modifications and a lot more testing. If they wanted good results with AA, they'd still need to do something about the degree of specular highlights that are almost everywhere in on-foot content as well.

I've been playing with the newest versions of ReShade, plus some shaders that can generate motion vectors then apply TAA and they work, to a degree. The motion vector quality is no where near as good, or as cheap, as it would be if the engine had good native support, and the combination of AA needed to meaningfully reduce the worst aliasing offenders is quite blurry, even with an aggressive sharpening pass. Some significant aliasing is still present as well.

This taste of what can be done leads me to believe that, even if it were relatively easy to do a straight port (though I don't think it is, given how hard it was to move everything to the Odyssey build of Cobra in the first place), or somehow bolt-on motion vector support, they would not want to do so just for the motion vector information that would make TAA and all it's derivatives (FSR2/3, DLSS/DLAA, XeSS, etc) trivial to add. Without a lot more work, it would seem like a half-measure, with results that would disappoint a lot of people. I suspect this is what's holding up the general AA front as well...nothing easy to integrate does enough, and doing enough to make it worthwhile means doing more than they can afford to devote to the problem. It's not like Odyssey doesn't have other issues.

 

[Cosmo]

Without a lot more work, it would seem like a half-measure, with results that would disappoint a lot of people. I suspect this is what's holding up the general AA front as well...nothing easy to integrate does enough, and doing enough to make it worthwhile means doing more than they can afford to devote to the problem. It's not like Odyssey doesn't have other issues.

Well after so many years it should be done. Don't their other games also use the Cobra Engine and have anti-aliasing?

 

[Morbad]

Well after so many years it should be done. Don't their other games also use the Cobra Engine and have anti-aliasing?

There is a lot of stuff wrong with the version of Odyssey we're playing today that should have been done before Odyssey was released.

JWE2 has had TAA and DLSS since it was launched and is using Cobra. However, that's not the same version that Odyssey uses. If porting the game over were easy it would have been done, but it's not. Look at the trouble they had, and still have, going from Horizons to Odyssey.

 

[SergMx]

However, that's not the same version that Odyssey uses.

I wonder on what basis this conclusion is made.

My opinion, I realize that this is just an opinion, it's the same engine but just trimmed more to improve performance which is already lacking.

 

[Morbad]

I wonder on what basis this conclusion is made.

My opinion, I realize that this is just an opinion, it's the same engine but just trimmed more to improve performance which is already lacking.

The lack of TAA itself is hugely suggestive, as are the other differences in the titles.

The version of Cobra that was originally used for Elite Dangerous was probably developed back in ~2011 to build a galaxy spanning spaceflight simulator. It then had major revisions to support planet generation and rendering, dropping DX10 and 32-bit support in the process. Horizons was developed before JWE, and was almost certainly a direct evolution of the non-Horizons game. Much later, and with much more difficulty, Odyssey shows up as a major overhaul, but would also logically be based on the Horizons engine, despite the new terrain generator and slew of new features.

JWE is a park simulator that was developed after Horizons and supports TAA and DLSS (much more common at the time than when development on ED started), which was carried over into JWE2.

The point of divergence for these projects is quite a ways back (probably 2014 if the branch was originally derived from Planetcoaster, or as late as early 2017 if it was forked just before JWE was announced) and I'd bet their engines are at least as different as widely spaced minor version of UE, maybe even a full major version. JWE could have been forked from the original Even if the branch JWE/JWE2 are on was derived from Elite: Dangerous, which may well not be the case, it wouldn't be the same any more.