Do ED store proceeds go into Elite development?
- Thread starter Strangepork
- Start date
The information is in there. You just need to read it.
And no, Horizons isn't multicrew. it encompasses a lot more than that. Read the link. I'm not going to quote individual posts for you just because you aren't willing to read it.
Nice try, but you didn't link anything with any actual information. You linked to a list of forum categories without actually adding anything of value to the discussion.
Trolling confirmed.
I have plenty of room on my ignore list and now you're on it as well.
Somehow I managed to avoid using the ignore list for over two years and yet have had to use it twice today already. Maybe 2018 is the Year of the Troll or something.
And when you're done adding 90%+ of the forum community to your ignore list, what does that tell you?
Perhaps that YOU are wrong?
As the saying goes... if one person calls you a horse, you can likely ignore it. If 50+ people tell you're a horse, it's time to get a saddle.
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Yes the public image and reputation of FD starts and ends with trolls on the forums. I found all the info you are talking about, even though the links to the 2016 reports are now not working, the info you are talking about was confirmed. Really I cant see an issue. As people have said, FD is a business, and some seem to forget that if these games are well received, some of the income will go back into ED.
I think the agenda of this topic is "Is ED getting enough funding", which is not the title of this thread. Yes, some small part of all your cash goes into ED, but not 100% of it.
I cant see why the most vocal backers say ED it totally broken and they welcome a years overhaul. I cant seen anything wrong with it outside of adding privateer bases and user created content.
I spent money on yellow thrusters and a name plate, so I put in something for the FD teams.
I think the agenda of this topic is "Is ED getting enough funding", which is not the title of this thread. Yes, some small part of all your cash goes into ED, but not 100% of it.
I cant see why the most vocal backers say ED it totally broken and they welcome a years overhaul. I cant seen anything wrong with it outside of adding privateer bases and user created content.
I spent money on yellow thrusters and a name plate, so I put in something for the FD teams.
I've just been gaming, computer, or not, for nearly fifty years, and all game companies live on the edge (I've worked for a few...and been burned for paid work). They live, or die, on what is selling, not the published financials. It all comes down to credere, credit, belief.
Watch what they actually do, not what they say. I think Elite will still be around. It just will never live up to it's many, and varied, expectations. Right now, it's the only game in town. Frontier isn't in court right now, for instance...
Watch what they actually do, not what they say. I think Elite will still be around. It just will never live up to it's many, and varied, expectations. Right now, it's the only game in town. Frontier isn't in court right now, for instance...
Is this still trying to prove FD don't care about ED and it is on life support?
Because otherwise it is pointless exercise, no?
You want developer company who owns and takes care of the game to be financially sound. To be financially sound means you invest in more than one franchise. As it seems those investments are actually highly successful, as FD now has two self-published franchises on their hand with both massive appeal to gamers all around the world. And now JWE is on their way, and buzz about it indicates that if FD does not screw it up, they have another success on their hands.
How all that helps FD? It creates financial stability. It creates trust from shareholders to current leadership which are all pro ED. No doubt all recent investors have been brought on board with information that FD is continuing to work on ED. Heck, board has accepted one year of upgrades for existing Horizons owners. That's quite a money invested without asking it directly back.
And I am not talking about tech know how, which grows with each project, as each of these projects are breeding grounds for developers so they can take on much bigger, more challenging tasks. And as ED is most complex game FD has, it just ensures that ED can get additional workforce trained and ready when time comes to tackle next big paid for DLCs.
So answer is no, of course not all proceeds go to Elite development. Money flows to FD bank accounts, and from there money gets paid for wages for people working on ED, PC, JWE and other unnamed project. By FD numbers there are around 120 people working on ED. They all get paid from what FD gets as income - be it ED, PC sales, cosmetics, whatever.
Because otherwise it is pointless exercise, no?
You want developer company who owns and takes care of the game to be financially sound. To be financially sound means you invest in more than one franchise. As it seems those investments are actually highly successful, as FD now has two self-published franchises on their hand with both massive appeal to gamers all around the world. And now JWE is on their way, and buzz about it indicates that if FD does not screw it up, they have another success on their hands.
How all that helps FD? It creates financial stability. It creates trust from shareholders to current leadership which are all pro ED. No doubt all recent investors have been brought on board with information that FD is continuing to work on ED. Heck, board has accepted one year of upgrades for existing Horizons owners. That's quite a money invested without asking it directly back.
And I am not talking about tech know how, which grows with each project, as each of these projects are breeding grounds for developers so they can take on much bigger, more challenging tasks. And as ED is most complex game FD has, it just ensures that ED can get additional workforce trained and ready when time comes to tackle next big paid for DLCs.
So answer is no, of course not all proceeds go to Elite development. Money flows to FD bank accounts, and from there money gets paid for wages for people working on ED, PC, JWE and other unnamed project. By FD numbers there are around 120 people working on ED. They all get paid from what FD gets as income - be it ED, PC sales, cosmetics, whatever.
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The devs have already told us they didn't have enough resources to work on multicrew properly. That is very concerning considering how much revenue Elite is bringing in for FD.
And yes, before anyone asks, I have a reference for when the devs said this: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-bias-effect?p=6154269&viewfull=1#post6154269
Good for us all? You sure about that? Wouldn't be good if the place went bankrupt for the players at least but I wonder about people defending a brand or profit making company. Its been good for Brabem though, he has hit the jackpot in recent times yet he can't afford to staff the moderation of the forums.
I think what folks are really asking is has ED been funded and resourced enough. Its fair to say Braben's focus is on 'the business', players of ED is on the game. Two different things. I just don't understand how you can take the view you have. Did you not see the vision for the game Braben pitched? Can he do no wrong in your eyes? That is rather revealing.
IOW "I don't have an exact reference for any of my alleged so I'll provide some obscure link to waste your time reading and therefore diverting you!"
Yaffle
Volunteer Moderator
It is not evidence for people being taken off elite and onto PC though, is it? Resource also means more than people. Time may have been the greatest driver, or people looking at different parts of Elite, or it just being a bit more complicated than first thought, and throwing more people at it simply would not help. See - we can all speculate? Again it's not even saying 'not enough resource to work on it properly' here is the quote:
Again, it's your spin on what you read, nothing more than that. Nowhere does it say 'we didn't have enough resources to work on it properly'. It says 'That's I think a really good example of just a development process. Time, resources, priorities, unforeseen stuff.'
Consider if FD didn't have PC/JWE. I am sure there would be posts here saying too much dev time was spent on paint-jobs (I can't find it, but we did have a thread saying exactly that a few years back), or there were too many livestreams.
This is a business, it has to function as one. Elite for a while will subsist off cosmetic sales and lower volumes of game/expansion sales. One would assume the now booming Planet Coaster will help keep it in the money to continue coding to do 'beyond'. A business with one product is not a business for very long.
Remember, opinions are proverbially like bellybuttons, we all have one. From my point of view FD is going fine for all the reasons I have stated. It is worth no more or less than anyone else's.
That is exactly what the devs said. What do you think it means when they say:
This is basic reading comprehension. The devs were asked why there weren't more mutlicrew features, they stated they didn't have enough "time, resources, priorities" to accomplish it.
That is a massive problem for Elite development considering that Horizons took a full year longer than planned and Elite has brought in a staggering amount of revenue for FD.
Did the title of the thread change?
Why are you so invested in defending Frontier, 'the business'?
edit: 'This is a business' - Really? I thought this was a discussion forum for a game.
Why are you so invested in defending Frontier, 'the business'?
edit: 'This is a business' - Really? I thought this was a discussion forum for a game.
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Maybe because Yaffle, at the end of the day is a VOLUNTEER moderator, but still a player of the game?
Again, why do people assume moderators don't have the right to their own personal opinions, especially when acting outside the capacity of a moderator? (i.e., no colored background in the post response)
Yep, it's still a business. FD is providing a game as "entertainment" but they are still a business. I know it might be difficult for you to comprehend. Take it slow... don't worry, it'll come to you.
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Yaffle
Volunteer Moderator
It's not 'exactly what the devs say' that is your spin, what they say is the quote, the word priorities is not even used. I read it as 'stuff happens'.
As for the time it's taken Horizons, I can only refer you back to the concept that lobbing more people at something does not necessarily speed its completion. I assume at the start that FD thought it could do it all with the resource (including time) at its disposal, within that plan PC would exist. I very much doubt it's ad-hoc. Moving a graphics designer from PC to fix a network error on Elite wouldn't help very much either.
Yaffle
Volunteer Moderator
Hello there
FD is a business, last time I checked. Feel free to correct me if it is not.
One of that business' products is Elite, the game much of this forum is dedicated to.
The thread has turned into (a hyperbolic statement here) 'FD has abandoned Elite' or 'FD must stop doing everything but Elite'. Both of those I strongly disagree with. I am allowed opinions here, same as any other player of the game.
COMPLETELY agreed here. People need to get better at their "forum-fu" in recognizing a MOD response (i.e., colored background) versus a normal response.
It's mainly hyperbole here with the ED is dying, dead, spending money wherever, yada yada anyway. I've yet to see a direct response from FD proving anything beyond their Kennedy-era Grassy Knoll conspiracy theories.
You know, if I were FD, I'd be consulting my lawyers as to the basis of a lawsuit toward customers trying to leverage such arguments in their own forums as to libel and slander.
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Yes, they use the word "resources" in that quote. That tells you that they did not have the resources they needed to implement the originally described multicrew features. They even go on to say very specifically:
"There's no reason other than time and resources why it couldn't be expanded."
Time and resources. That is what the devs need to develop multicrew the way it was originally described. Aside from the technical issues with SRV use there is "no reason other than time and resources".
That is Sandro talking. That is the devs telling us exactly why multicrew was delivered in a minimum viable product state.
Yes, they use the term "priorities". I transcribed their statements directly from the video. Feel free to watch the video yourself if you don't believe the accuracy of my transcription.
Then you "read" it wrong. That is not what the devs said. The only technical issue they mentioned was with how the SRV works. They went on to say that "There's no reason other than time and resources why it couldn't be expanded."
This is an extremely clear statement from FD on the issue.
You're trying to suggest here that a game that brought in at least $60 million USD of revenue as of 2015/2016 financials, probably at least double that by now with console sales, didn't have enough resources "at its disposal" to make multicrew any better than it currently is?
Either the entire Elite dev team is literally incompetent or those resources were used on another one of FD's games. Since the devs produced good work during Elite's first year of development I'm going to go ahead and just assume that the Elite dev team is competent. That just leaves the issue of resources, which FD has literally told us were not sufficient for them to produce a better version of multicrew. That is what the devs told us. There is no way to argue with that unless you want to suggest the devs were not honest with us. I have no reason to believe that the devs are not being honest with us. So assuming the devs are both competent and honest then I take them at their word that they did not have the resources they needed.
There is absolutely no way for you to spin this with what we've already been told from the devs.
Yaffle, it's not worth your time or effort. Devari knows nothing about game design from what I can gather. He interprets stuff in the worst way possible, when it could be interpreted in a completely different way.
Basically he has no proof, and any evidence he has is very tenuous and can be interpreted in my ways.
All he is doing is showing his ignorance again and again saying this stuff. I wish he would stop because, to be honest he is just embarrassing himself.
None of this is going to build a time machine to go back and get more development done on the game in the past, so in terms of what we have to play right now it's pretty irrelevant.