Do you care about preventing combat logging?

[NeilF]

Yes, only AFTER:-
- A serious penalty is added for any "illegal" destruction of a Pilots Federation member. It should be a serious thing! No matter where!
- Piracy has been improved (to make it about cargo, not destruction).
- The game finally has some orchestrated PvE & PvP combat to offer plenty of interesting legal combat. ie: If you want PvP then undertake a mission/task/CG where there will be other CMDRs fighting against you. This will permit legal destruction!

Then look at penalising combat logging.

 

[Drelthar]

to be honest with the UK Internet being as crap as it is lots of legit players would get banned for poor service by isps so this being magically fixed is hyperbole.

if people KEEP DISCONNECTING in combat then that would be a black mark and something worth investigating.

Yeah, clearly, instantly banning people for disconnects would be silly.

But a consistent use of this exploit should have consequences. Not neccassarily a ban, but at the least, they should log into an insurance screen.

 

[Iskariot]

Anyway, we can be for hours arguing here, but the poll is showing that players don't care, why? I think it is because MOST of players are in PvE Groups or Solo.

One third cares. which is still a very considerable minority.

 

[deleteduser]

Ok, that's a matter of interpretation then. I see that as "oh well, that was 2 minutes of fun and I got a win coz he left", you see that as "I failed to increase my rank despite putting in two minutes of combat." It's not a loss of rank, but rather a failure of potential gain.

It's not interpretation, no. You might count the CL as a win, but the Combat Rank is still negatively affected by it.

Logically however, doesn't that imply that PvPers who are Elite ranked shouldn't care though?

Your logic only applies;

a) If Combat Rank is the only factor affected in PvP situations, which it isn't:

Elite CMDRs still have their kills counted.
Elite CMDRs still incur/collect bounties from a destroyed ship.
Elite CMDRs still collect materials from a destroyed ship.

...and ...

b) If PvP is the whole game, which it isn't... even for PvP'ers.

 

[Kar]

FD knows every time when a player logs in and logs out.

FD knows the frequency of login out of a player.

In my usually time playing a session, FD knows how many times I log in and log out.

I play 99% on open. I might go into solo to check some missions (which btw, I do, but I do not agree with it, but its there, everyone doing it, so change it).

I was never killed by a player, I never killed a player.

I see many players out there, they go their way, I go mine. If by any chance I get attacked (which never happen until now but will happen for sure) 2 things will happen: I fight or try to run. I kill or get wasted. Simple as that.
Of course we can have disconnects, lose of power, earthquake, dog pee on the computer, etc.... but 1, 2 even 4 times disconnect in a 5 or 6 hours session playing, that is normal. There are things we cannot control. I get some disconnects due to my internet connection and my ISP can't do nothing since I use a special package in my area with TV by satellite and 4G router. 4G router sux, I can have 30mb down but in the next 5 min it can be 1mb down.

I do not have cable in my area.

But in a 6 hours session a player logs out or (lose connection) 100 times....come on....that´s fishy.

Now, if in open, yea, its cheating no matter if it is against npc's or players, in solo....errr... really dont care, they do not bother me.

The frequency of these actions is what can be accounted for.
Imho...

Also, I bet FD knows where a player logs in and out. Station, planet or space. I can log in and out 100 times in 1 hour in a station, I am not doing anything wrong.

The worse thing is, and I noticed this because already happen to me when I get disconnected while doing RES or CZ's , no matter how badly are my shields, after 1 minute, my ship logs in space, away from the fight with full shields!!!!

In a PVP point of view, this is even worse, the log out, because some       could not stand the heat and log out, just to log in with full shields recharged and go after the player he was fighting 1 minute before. This is very serious exploit!

 

[Deleted member 140600]

Not without a ground up redesign of the networking parts of the game and a huge and ongoing financial cost to fdev.

So it is still something possible.

 

[Bartizan]

Just an opinion, but I tend to think most (not all) combat loggers are players in Open escaping ganking and pirating. Anyone who stands their ground and takes a death is playing the game for different reasons than the trader just trying to move some goods without someone needing to measure their epeen by blowing up their less equipped ship.

Deal with the cause, not the symptoms. I would like to see 2 things done that would fix a great deal of the underlying issues. Drop the insurance system and implement something that makes more sense and institute pvp flagging, giving players the choice to play in open without needing to do so in a heavily armed ship waiting for the next clown shoe who wants to watch the world burn decide your number is up.

 

[Zetta]

Haven't been affected by it but I do think it's a cowardly way of avoiding a loss.

 

[DoctorDanny]

Damn, I voted yes. I meant to click no.

That's what you get for being old I suppose.

Combat logging is part of PvP, which in turn is part of Multiplayer.
Multiplayer has no part in my vision of Elite and is the biggest reason we can't have nice things like persistent NPCs.

All the dev time that has gone to waste to get us Wings, Arena and Powerplay could have been used to create immersive, cool and unique single player adventure content.

 

[Garix]

Do I PvP? No (no longer play in Open for reasons)
Have I been blown up in Open by another player? Yes
Would I combat log? No
Has someone combat logged on me? Yes
Do I care if anyone else combat logs? No.

It's a game when all is said and done. I try very hard not to get too upset by what I do for fun. There's enough stuff in the world to get upset about without worrying about, what is by its very nature, a waste of time

 

[Drelthar]

This relates to WHY I don't understand the upset about it - the game doesn't offer much of a reward for player killing other than occasional fairly small bounties which are nowhere near enough to "live on", and many PvP kills aren't even on people who have bounties, so the only real reason for it is the personal satisfaction of a victory over another person. Surely having them flee is as much of a victory as having their space pixels scattered? Maybe I'm missing something.

- I understand that you could miss this, it's not abundantly clear as there are many ways to play the game.

The thing is, that if you have an actual, legitimate (not lololz I killz u!) conflict with someone/group, then the rebuy screen reduces their resources, directly affecting their ability to continue fighting in the conflict. If they combat log, they avoid that.

If you personally never combat log, because it's cheating, and your not a person who cheats, you take a hit to your resources.

This makes it unfair.

I accept that you dislike it, but WHY? Why is it morally wrong for a player to avoid the rebuy screen? Other than the potential bounty, what have they taken from you?

This is another point really. They don't need to take anything from you, I see that a lot on the forums, it seems like if it doesn't directly affect me, then I shouldn't care... that seems counter productive to the betterment of a game you enjoy.

For instance, I don't explore very much, but I wouldn't want FD to stop making that experience better for those who do enjoy it.

I also utterly despise the resource extraction site shooting gallery "bounty hunting" system, but I don't engage in it, so it doesn't directly affect me. It's existance still bugs me.

No one has ever combat logged on me - It still annoys the hell out of me that it can be done, because it's a flaw in the game I enjoy, and want to reccommend to friends, and want more people playing. But I said above, by having huge gaping holes in the system, means the challenge is significantly reduced, lowering it's quality to many player types.

In the end, cheating, makes the game worse, a worse game means less people to play with, less people makes the game worse.... etc.

 

[Comrade Error]

Yes because combat logging helped creating the SDC and vice versa. I also enjoy PvP piracy.

 

[Sandmann]

So it is still something possible.

Yeeees... in the same way that a manned mission to Mars in the next 5 years is possible. Highly unlikely, very difficult, very expensive, probably not going to work... but possible.

 

[verminstar]

Mostly play pve and really dont understand the issue...surely someone doing a bolter in pvp is still a win? I dont get the pvp aspect here so just doesnt affect me. Ive never actually done it and took my death in open last time I was there because...well just because but I dont get why its such an issue so dont care if they fix it or not. Plenty other stuff broke that takes priority imho

 

[Kelta Lan]

No, Open is much more populated. I checked last week because i was curious. I was in most 'popular' places in Open and mobius, and in Open there was in my opinion more chance to meet a player, and at populated places like Jameson, Ruins or CG there was around 3 times more folks in Open than on Mobius.

Mobius has been split in 2 subgroups depending on your region now, so one can assume that you should take the mobius number and double it. Then you have to add the other private groups, and finally the solo players.
I don't have any numbers but I'd think that Open is not the most populated area when you take everyone into account.
Now take the combat loggers out of the number of people in Open and you should find a ratio of "don't care about PvP players complaints" vs "these guys are cheaters" close to the result of this poll.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Since the only time I will engage with another player is in consensual stock sidewinder combat, I could not care less about this.
This is a PK problem or a Pirate vs. Player problem and like so many other issues in the world - Where do Transgendered People Pee? Should Same-Gender Couple Get Married? The Oppression of the Rights of Some Likely Made-Up Minority Group - all issues that have no impact on me in any way, shape or form, I simply cannot bother to even worry about them.

 

[Kyokushin]

Mobius has been split in 2 subgroups depending on your region now, so one can assume that you should take the mobius number and double it. Then you have to add the other private groups, and finally the solo players.
I don't have any numbers but I'd think that Open is not the most populated area when you take everyone into account.
Now take the combat loggers out of the number of people in Open and you should find a ratio of "don't care about PvP players complaints" vs "these guys are cheaters" close to the result of this poll.

I know, i am talking about overall. Open is more populated than all mobiuses. Not only mine opinion, my friends also ckeched it..

 

[Becky]

Even a single CL with a cargo-maxed T9 can be an effective BGS manipulator, nevermind the cumulative effects of a weeks worth strung together, and if you're flying a cargo-maxed T9 full of goodies, the opportunities for CL are going to be numerous.

All activities regardless of game mode effect the background simulation; solo players in T9 ships affect the BGS just as much as people playing in open. This has always been the case as far as I'm aware.

 

[ethelred]

It does bother me as someone who plays exclusively in Open.

It upsets me because in my opinion with the exercise of skill you can avoid destruction 99% of the time. Whether that is slowing down, high-waking or just keeping an eye on the scanner you *should* be either always able to run or win the fight, or at least fight on what you think is equal terms.

For players who log, I think they are missing out on the skills needed to improve their own game, which in turn does not give them the sense of risk and reward I get when I jump into a system in a shieldless T9 and see lots of hollow squares.

If they don't want or aren't capable of feeling the risk and reward I don't think they are playing the game to it's full extent.

For me, playing in Open and it being cutthroat and having the chance for things to go wrong is the best thing about the game. I haven't yet tried my hand at piracy, but if I do interdict cmdrs without even the chance of them dropping cargo after i have reduced them to 10% hull as they will log would be Sad Times.

In summary, it does bother me, but I can present no solution except to pledge I will never do it myself (not even to use the menu).

 

[Drelthar]

The effect on piracy is one I have a lot of sympathy for. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't destroying a ship also destroy the cargo the majority of the time? If we accept that CLing is primarilly to avoid the rebuy screen and piracy is primarilly about cargo, wouldn't it be more beneficial to provide methods for pirates to steal cargo without killing their victims, such that if initiated before a CL took place, the logger would still be without the cargo when they returned and the pirate would get the profit without the fear of possible retributive attack by an armed trader. That would surely lead to LESS CLing since traders would have less to fear - a partial loss of cargo rather than a total loss of cargo AND ship, and lead to more profit for pirates.

Entirely right. If piracy was more viable, and you were more able to choose if you killed the victim than you currently are, then a lot of issues would be solved, as people could actually pirate other players without destroying them. I killed someone entirely by mistake the other day while trying to disable them for instance. Luckily I was able to explain to them later what happened.

Generally, a pirate should want to get cargo, without even firing a shot, but if they do have to fire, then they want to do it without killing the victim, to lower the bounty they end up with.