Yes. Yes, I do.
Does anyone actually enjoy engineering?
- Thread starter Bill Clement
- Start date
Yes. Yes, I do.
As an activity in itself, then no, not as such. To me that's like asking "do you enjoy the outfitting screen" - it serves a necessary purpose and I'm happy it's there, but it's not what I play the game for. But I don't have any problem with how it's implemented and when I get a new ship I always do at least some engineering on it.
Material collection I don't find to be a problem - I have a relatively small number of ships (only four that I semi-regularly use, and another couple for specialist use) - so I pick up more of most materials while just playing the game than I possibly need to engineer them. Because I collect the materials faster than I use them, I don't end up in the situation of wanting to engineer a ship but first having to pick up the materials.
It helps, I think, that I don't feel the need to max out G5 modules just because I technically can. On ships I don't intend to use frequently, I'll often just stop at G4, or a couple of G5 rolls. That last few percent of performance is rarely necessary [1]. I think a lot of people punish themselves by trying to max out every single G5 module for an extra 2 m/s speed or an extra 0.5 LY jump range that they'll barely notice but costs them tens of G5 materials - not every ship needs that.
[1] My current ship is a Krait Phantom built only from things available in Colonia, so it's mostly B-rated, no G5 engineering, and very little G4 either. It's still absolutely fine for general multirole trading, missions and fighting off the pirates those attract. It'll get upgraded slowly over time as new local modules and blueprints become available.
Material collection I don't find to be a problem - I have a relatively small number of ships (only four that I semi-regularly use, and another couple for specialist use) - so I pick up more of most materials while just playing the game than I possibly need to engineer them. Because I collect the materials faster than I use them, I don't end up in the situation of wanting to engineer a ship but first having to pick up the materials.
It helps, I think, that I don't feel the need to max out G5 modules just because I technically can. On ships I don't intend to use frequently, I'll often just stop at G4, or a couple of G5 rolls. That last few percent of performance is rarely necessary [1]. I think a lot of people punish themselves by trying to max out every single G5 module for an extra 2 m/s speed or an extra 0.5 LY jump range that they'll barely notice but costs them tens of G5 materials - not every ship needs that.
[1] My current ship is a Krait Phantom built only from things available in Colonia, so it's mostly B-rated, no G5 engineering, and very little G4 either. It's still absolutely fine for general multirole trading, missions and fighting off the pirates those attract. It'll get upgraded slowly over time as new local modules and blueprints become available.
Have always enjoyed engineering, only part I don't like is the fact that we have engineered weapons (do love my long range plasmas though)
Can understand why many hate the process though, a lot of cmdrs decide they want a certain module engineered, then focus solely on that and complain about grinding.
Just play the game as normal & vary activities every now and again, your data and material list will build up naturally. No need to rush, having a pimped ship is not mandatory unless you are obsessed with being a KB/M PvP god in your head..
Can understand why many hate the process though, a lot of cmdrs decide they want a certain module engineered, then focus solely on that and complain about grinding.
Just play the game as normal & vary activities every now and again, your data and material list will build up naturally. No need to rush, having a pimped ship is not mandatory unless you are obsessed with being a KB/M PvP god in your head..
Yup - and I'm not sure that concentrating on the engineering is the blocker to becoming a PvP god in any case...
Don't like it at all, though to be honest I only dabbled in the beginning and found it trite and contrived gameplay of the worst MMO kind. I think I got a g3 fsd on my Asp and that's it, bored the living crap out of me. Not returned to it since the changes so could be better but I'm just not interested in the power creep and RNG stuff. It's lazy from a dev point of view, like the equivalent of a bullet sponge boss to extend the play time a game has.
I boycotted the Engineers for the first two years, since the update it dramatically improved for me and I was able to engineer my Krait without vomiting all the time. Did I enjoy it? Not sure, I'd say I am indifferent about it, could've been better, could've been worse.
Bob Lighthouse
Banned
Serious question. I don't mean 'do you enjoy having an engineered ship' or 'do you enjoy trying out different engineering modifications', I mean do you actually enjoy the process, the things that you do to get to that engineered module?
Acquiring vast amounts of materials, trading them when (inevitably) you don't have the one you want, at a massive loss, getting a series of lousy rolls that eat all your mats before you complete the mod you're aiming for?
I read posters on here stating that they've engineered whole fleets of ships in next to no time. I believe them- why wouldn't they tell the truth?- but I'm not enjoying anything like the same rate of progress. I decided to fully engineer my mission runner, an 'A' rated Python, back in November. I'd been tinkering with it for a while, I had what I thought was a huge amount of materials stockpiled and I'd unlocked a few engineers. I gave up half way through December and, in spite of having a whole week off at the end of the month, I didn't even flash Elite up. I just couldn't face it any more.
For most of the last four years I've put in a couple of hours a night, two or three times a week. Not exactly a power player, but not 'casual' either. Now I'm watching ED videos instead of playing- what kind of saddo does that?It's over a fortnight since I last played and I don't have any particular urge to change that.
Each completed mod has been a revelation. The Python is transformed. I really can't express how much of a difference the engineering makes- it's vastly more than finally installing 'A' class modules when I started the game.
But that's just hacking me off. It's painfully obvious just how pants stock ships are compared to engineered ones. I've got a whole fleet of vanilla ships that are a real struggle to just survive in. I don't mind running away every now and then, but the AI is balanced against much tougher kit than I'm flying. I can see where the 'git gud' crowd are coming from- my partly engineered Python is just melting AI opponents! But I'm about as 'gud' as I'm going to 'git', my fleet needs a ton of work and yeGodsinHeaven I'm burned out just getting one of them up to scratch!
I'd love to try out some of the newer ships, but I know that stock, even 'A' rated, they'll be easy pickings for dumb as a brick AI with ridiculously strong weapons and shields. It's not about skill, or lack thereof, the game's set-up is suffering from power creep. I wouldn't object to that, if engineering to the new standard wasn't such a massive pain in the posterior for me.
Am I looking at this all wrong? Is engineering actually a fun activity that I'm just not 'getting'? [uhh]
It sounds like you're not being very efficient.
Comparing your progress to those that are is going to be very frustrating.
I guess so. Or rather: They put up with it to get the power juice.
As for me, the bulletspongy "incentives" to grind the crap turned me away. I want to look at the new exploration stuff but somehow can't be bothered to redownload yet.
As for me, the bulletspongy "incentives" to grind the crap turned me away. I want to look at the new exploration stuff but somehow can't be bothered to redownload yet.
I'm with you on this one. Occasionally I'll set out to do a particular upgrade but most of the time I see what I materials I currently have and see if that enables me to upgrade anything. Inara.cz is great for this.
Otherwise I play normally and collect things as I go.
Very enjoyable.
![[VR] Frank_G](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/59/59394.jpg?1553527111){kind=avatar}
I collect materials on the fly, as i play the game and i don't need to leave an engineer with maxed grade 5. While this means slow progress, the game never gets grindy and you always leave an engineer with a better ship. So yes, i enjoy it.
The problem most players will have, is the max-out-madness, which can actually ruin a lot. This includes working up rank for a specific ship or the must to be elite. This would totally spoil the fun i have, flying a spaceship, doing the things i want.
The problem most players will have, is the max-out-madness, which can actually ruin a lot. This includes working up rank for a specific ship or the must to be elite. This would totally spoil the fun i have, flying a spaceship, doing the things i want.
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That's a rather blinkered perception of people's motivations.
For me, a big part of the fun of a game is figuring out how to do things optimally and efficiently.
Doesn't matter whether I'm building a zombie-trap in Minecraft, Power-Armor mod's in Fallout 4 or spaceships in ED.
It's simply about having a task to do, having an idea of how to do it efficiently and then building something that you think will accomplish that.
Granted, you don't need to do things in the most efficient way but that's kind of like entering an F1 race in, erm, a Williams - you're going through the motions but you know you're not doing it as well as you should be.
Some people probably won't worry about that but those who actually enjoy the process of brainstorming, creating, testing and refining are likely to focus on it and find it frustrating when they can't complete the process without the faff of doing stuff they'd rather not be doing.
You'll have to excuse me, though, because I now have to go and run a bunch of passenger missions in order to get a pile of Biotech Conductors because I want to try out some different long-range turrets with different XFX on my Corvette.
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![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
in general.... yes. but i dont enjoy ALL of it (but that said actually its not far off now since we can find persistant USSes.)
I still think searching for rocks on planets can be improved however, but over all, yep to me it is just a part of the game like any other
what i dont like is the results funnily enough, which in your OP you seem to assume that i would.
to me engineers are far far too OP. personally i would like it if even a G5 god roll only did a max over all improvement of 10% accross all improved features (so i could have a weapon with 10% more damage, OR 3% more range, 3% less heat and 4% more damage etc and the shield and armour / resistances improvements could not be stacked. (the shield stuff demoed in beta 12 months or so back were a big improvement imo)
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The process is as enjoyable as any other crafting system out there. It's perfectly exceptable and in small doses can be "fun". If I was grinding out engineered modules, doing a whole ship from grade 1 to 5 all in one go, then I suspect I would end up not enjoying the process.
It is certainly much better then the crafting system in LOTRO which is boring as hell and entails you watching your avatar going through the same process again and again and again and again and again so you can start doing another process again and again and again and again and again so you can eventually create an item which isn't as good as the stuff you get from doing quests.
It is certainly much better then the crafting system in LOTRO which is boring as hell and entails you watching your avatar going through the same process again and again and again and again and again so you can start doing another process again and again and again and again and again so you can eventually create an item which isn't as good as the stuff you get from doing quests.
I like being focused and with limited online time of course I would set out tasks to achieve.
Unfortunately this game forces you to jump through unsatisfying tasks throughout the entire experience.
Right now I get about 4-5 hours a week and if I am looking to engineer an item then that time is easily consumed on unsatisfying tasks.
If your short on time this is a sequence of totally unpleasant game mechanism.
I looked at the new ships in beta of which both I would buy on live. However the reality is that even making one competitive has put me off either getting one ingame and in fact bothering to login.
Engineers is a total fail.
Unfortunately this game forces you to jump through unsatisfying tasks throughout the entire experience.
Right now I get about 4-5 hours a week and if I am looking to engineer an item then that time is easily consumed on unsatisfying tasks.
If your short on time this is a sequence of totally unpleasant game mechanism.
I looked at the new ships in beta of which both I would buy on live. However the reality is that even making one competitive has put me off either getting one ingame and in fact bothering to login.
Engineers is a total fail.
I enjoy very Little about it. If I could just pay 10x the credits and buy the same thing off the shelf, I would. Material scarcity is a blatant fabrication and I could probably deal with it if I could use skill to overcome it. But I can't, it's all just a massive time waste. Data mined wake exceptions? Military supercapacitors? These things make me task kill elite and practice relaxation techniques. The power advantages are over the top too. In the old system, I just told myself it was a form of gambling, like playing a slot machine or scratch off ticket. I tried to enjoy the gambling aspect. Now that is gone and we have a material toilet.
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Overall, no. Hunting for mats only to be found in signal sources or FSD wakes is just not fun, as well as constantly scooping up crap. Gaining mats from missions is really good though, like you would expect from a computer game.
I am also with you, Bill, regarding lost balance due to engineering.
I could do 50 laps in a racing sim and lap 51 would be fun, too. Finding 50 DWEs or some really rare mat in ED is not, not even finding one is.
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I try to enjoy it. I like grinding mats, but traveling to all the engineers bores me a bit. These days you can engineer most of the ship with just pinned blueprints, so do that if you are bored. Man.. That bug though where pinned blueprints get unpinned, I have 2 of them gone right now!
I have a lot of ships partially engineered. Actually only my combat and exploring vessels get the full deal, the others are a slow process. But I've gotten a lot of gameplay from engineering, about 30 heavily engineered shops so far, so I'd say I do like it!
I have a lot of ships partially engineered. Actually only my combat and exploring vessels get the full deal, the others are a slow process. But I've gotten a lot of gameplay from engineering, about 30 heavily engineered shops so far, so I'd say I do like it!
I don't need to find 50 DWE's though. That sounds like grinding it out to me, and that is not enjoyable. I prefer to play in a way I find fun whether that is finding materials for engineering or doing missions for my faction or going out exploring. At the end of the day it is up to you how you go about these things.