Does anyone actually enjoy engineering?

[Old Duck]

Call me crazy, but being a time poor player, I've always treated ship hulls as the things I move my modules between, as opposed to static builds. That means I only need two modules for each size class: one that is light weight and heat efficient, and one that is heavy duty. I can only fly one ship at a time, after all, so there's really no need to engineer fifty different A rated Powerplants, when I can get away with engineering with six.

I find this approach time-consuming for core modules. Most of my ships are multi-role in the sense that I can easily convert my explorer Type-7 into a cargo hauler, or load an SRV onto my Vulture to do work planet-side, but they are specialized in their core builds. The engines, FSD, distributor - these I customize to the ship rather than the 'mission'.

Also, static core modules are easier on my immersion. I can visualize removing the furniture to convert a passenger lounge into a cargo hold, same goes with changing weapons / ordinance, but popping different engines and power plants willy-nilly feels a bit too gamey to me. Perhaps some NASCAR mechanic might pull this off, but we never did this in the Navy - the engine in that F-18 and the reactor in that submarine are there to stay, LOL.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Sometimes I refitted ships for a slightly different role. That was a waste of credits mostly but not so bad and it went on the fly. If I was lucky with the equipment being on offer. With engineers I'd need to prep all the stuff I have no idea if I actually want to do it. Then there is the constant goalpost shifting of how mechanics work and equipment performs. I'd really hate to prep and engineer all the stuff only to find out it once again is supposed to work differently than when I laid it all out.
That was annoying without engineers and it happened too often for my taste to consider wasting even more time with engineers.

I never considered it such a problem for live service games, but getting screwed over royally and hit with the nerf bat on content I gathered together in no insignificant amount of time - it was a new experience. And with that experience in ED, I take a very critical look at today's "live service" offers now.

 

[MPL3D]

Although I don't like to bump this thread, all I can say is that I like engineering and upgrading my ship so much that I'm travelling to Colonia to perform some exclusive G5 upgrades

 

[Six6VI]

Sometimes I refitted ships for a slightly different role. That was a waste of credits mostly but not so bad and it went on the fly. If I was lucky with the equipment being on offer. With engineers I'd need to prep all the stuff I have no idea if I actually want to do it. Then there is the constant goalpost shifting of how mechanics work and equipment performs. I'd really hate to prep and engineer all the stuff only to find out it once again is supposed to work differently than when I laid it all out.
That was annoying without engineers and it happened too often for my taste to consider wasting even more time with engineers.

I never considered it such a problem for live service games, but getting screwed over royally and hit with the nerf bat on content I gathered together in no insignificant amount of time - it was a new experience. And with that experience in ED, I take a very critical look at today's "live service" offers now.

I concur, it was annoying having to re-engineer a fleet of thirty odd ships, but...
It didn't take long in the beta to realise that most new upgrades were superior.
With the roulette factor removed, swapping 'standard' G1-5 modules is viable.

If budget is an issue, eddb.io/stations and constrain the results to Li Yong-Rui.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Not really possible when you are doing specific builds, especially combat focused. While they may share the same size and even class components, often they will be modified differently for different roles ; eg fast charge or long range FSD., armoured or high-power power plant etc. Also when you have a large fleet spread over several locations it's not really viable; you want to move between them in a taxi build and use them, not wait for a 'shared' module to arrive.

I guess that’s one of the advantages of having a proper home base. No need to wait for modules to arrive. Not that I’ve never needed to actually wait for modules. I know exactly what I’ll be doing the next day, so if I need to transfer any modules, I’ll do that before I log out.

I find this approach time-consuming for core modules. Most of my ships are multi-role in the sense that I can easily convert my explorer Type-7 into a cargo hauler, or load an SRV onto my Vulture to do work planet-side, but they are specialized in their core builds. The engines, FSD, distributor - these I customize to the ship rather than the 'mission'.

I’ve always felt the opposite was more time consumingto me: why take the time to rebuild the wheel, when I’ve already got several just lying around, unused?

That’s not to say I don’t have quite a few “hand me downs” lying around either. But if I’m going to invest materials into Engineering, I’d rather put it into a module I don’t already own, as opposed to a dozen identical modules, in a dozen different ships.

Also, static core modules are easier on my immersion. I can visualize removing the furniture to convert a passenger lounge into a cargo hold, same goes with changing weapons / ordinance, but popping different engines and power plants willy-nilly feels a bit too gamey to me. Perhaps some NASCAR mechanic might pull this off, but we never did this in the Navy - the engine in that F-18 and the reactor in that submarine are there to stay, LOL.

Personally, the idea that our ships are highly modular helps make their designs make much more sense. Otherwise, I’m left wondering why we don’t have four 2A generators permanently installed in our ships, as opposed to one modular 8A.

 

[Old Duck]

I’ve always felt the opposite was more time consuming to me: why take the time to rebuild the wheel, when I’ve already got several just lying around, unused?

For me personally the answer is because I only have to rebuild the wheel once (or twice or however many ships I have) instead of every single time I want to change roles. In fact, I've decided to build a second role-specific Type-7, so that I'll have one for cargo and salvage and a different one for search and rescue. Once they are done, they are done. This not only includes modules and their engineering, but Livery as well. I don't want to be rescuing passengers in my FedEx truck, LOL.

Now within these roles, I'll still switch out a module or two as needed. For example, I may swap my fuel scoop for a collector limpet controller on my cargo ship when I'm in the mood to retrieve salvage. I'll use Guardian FSD Boosters to get around the Bubble and then store them once I'm where I want to be for awhile. However, switching out all the cargo racks for passenger cabins on my Type-7 was starting to get old. If I had to also rip the FSD out of my Orca to fly my Type-7, well that's a harassment that I'm just not interested in repeating over and over. I'd much rather just engineer a couple FSDs and be done with it.

 

[Darkfyre99]

For me personally the answer is because I only have to rebuild the wheel once (or twice or however many ships I have) instead of every single time I want to change roles. In fact, I've decided to build a second role-specific Type-7, so that I'll have one for cargo and salvage and a different one for search and rescue. Once they are done, they are done. This not only includes modules and their engineering, but Livery as well. I don't want to be rescuing passengers in my FedEx truck, LOL.

Now within these roles, I'll still switch out a module or two as needed. For example, I may swap my fuel scoop for a collector limpet controller on my cargo ship when I'm in the mood to retrieve salvage. I'll use Guardian FSD Boosters to get around the Bubble and then store them once I'm where I want to be for awhile. However, switching out all the cargo racks for passenger cabins on my Type-7 was starting to get old. If I had to also rip the FSD out of my Orca to fly my Type-7, well that's a harassment that I'm just not interested in repeating over and over. I'd much rather just engineer a couple FSDs and be done with it.

I see what you’re saying, but personally I tend to leave unengineerable or minimally engineered modules (passenger cabins, cargo racks, limpets controllers, etc) in place, and just move around the maximally engineered modules (Powerplant, Engines, FSD, Shield Generator, and Power Distributor). IMO, credits are cheap these days. It’s materials for engineering that’s expensive, and I prefer to get the most proverbial “bang” for my “buck.”

For example, the same 5A FSD can be used in my Asp Explorer (“adrenaline tours”), Diamonback Explorer (rares), Python (BGS multi-role), Orca (passenger), Imperial Clipper (blockade runner), Type-7 (cargo), and Krait Phantom (exploration). Likewise, the same 4A Powerplant used to power my Cobra III (“scout” multi-role) can also be used to power my Imperial Clipper (blockade runner) - two ships that don’t have to worry about hot scooping, so they can take advantage of a power-boosted Powerplant.

 

[Old Duck]

I see what you’re saying, but personally ....

FWIW, I'm not trying to change your mind. What works for you works for you, and what works for me works for me. If anything, our opposite approach to engineering modules strengthens our agreement that engineering isn't such a terrible burden / grind.

 

[Darkfyre99]

FWIW, I'm not trying to change your mind. What works for you works for you, and what works for me works for me. If anything, our opposite approach to engineering modules strengthens our agreement that engineering isn't such a terrible burden / grind.

Agreed.

I’m discussing more for the sake of discussion, as well as offering ideas for the more serially-minded players. It never ceases to amaze me that players are willing to spend hours doing the same “dull” thing over and over and over again, in order to gain a tiny boost in efficiency, an minuscule advantage that they’ll let go to waste by not honing their personal in-game skills to a similar razor-thin edge.

 

[Old Duck]

Agreed.

I’m discussing more for the sake of discussion, as well as offering ideas for the more serially-minded players. It never ceases to amaze me that players are willing to spend hours doing the same “dull” thing over and over and over again, in order to gain a tiny boost in efficiency, an minuscule advantage that they’ll let go to waste by not honing their personal in-game skills to a similar razor-thin edge.

Speaking of minuscule advantage, I ran out of G5 mats engineering the FSD for my new role-specific Type-7, and I just shrugged my shoulders and said "No worries!" The jump range is plenty enough even at G4, and when I come across those G5 wakes in my travels (perhaps as a mission reward or one of my balancing passes at the mat trader), then I'll add a few extra LY to that ship.

And if I'm desperate (for example, if I want to build an exploration T7 for a surprise expedition), I can always grab the G5 FSD from another ship.

 

[rekurzion]

yes.

i've solved a riddle recently to the question 'how should i play elite?' and the answer was this: develop a back story, pick a destination and take your time getting there.

i've accomplished this in a variety of ways: flying back and forth between super power home planets, sight seeing missions and recently engineers. i'll make a decision for an upgrade i need or would like then set course for the engineer in question, set my route to take the economical path which typically translates to around 20 jumps or so. along my journey i partake in gameplay that will gather the materials i need for that engineer when i arrive and RP my character at each system i stop by.

i experience so much along the way i usually forget that i'm grinding for an upgrade. if i don't have all the materials to fully upgrade when i get there i bookmark the blueprint, pick another destination and upgrade along the way as needed.

also, i only engineer a couple of ships and typically modules that are well used across several ships and have very little if any redundancy as to not wear myself out constantly upgrading over and over again. i have one main ship i do almost everything in, one combat ship and that's pretty much it.

 

[Urbanski101]

So for the last couple of sessions I've unlocked Hera Tani and I'm now trying to unlock Broo Tarquin.

Ferrying cigars and tea over and over. This apparently constitutes gameplay. FD clearly think this is fun, or more likely couldn't think of any other way for players to unlock the engineers. For all of their skill in building an amazing galaxy to explore they have the collective imagination of a lamp post when it comes to building fun / rewarding / engaging gameplay.

I've now got to go back for a fourth time to pick up more tea...it has to be the most boring, most unimaginative, most off putting, time wasting game mechanic I've experienced in years....well since the last engineer unlock. Truly turgid and awful. Felt like I've wasted 2 nights of gaming. I can't be bothered, gonna log and do something more interesting like clipping my toenails.

 

[Old Duck]

Ferrying cigars and tea over and over. This apparently constitutes gameplay. FD clearly think this is fun, or more likely couldn't think of any other way for players to unlock the engineers.

UNLOCKING some Engineers is one of the most tedious things in the game. This is why I've decided that if I ever want a fresh start, I'll fly all my ships one by one into the sun (or a level 9 USS) and destroy them all like Tony Stark's suits in Iron Man 3, before I ever click "Clear Save". This is another reason for me to stay on the Playstation platform, LOL.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

So just as the Thargoid thing hit Palin a week or so ago, I was reading on here about his G5 Dirty Drive engine mods. I checked and I had an invite. Just my luck. Never mind.

I have had the G3 mods on my ship (mainstay Python) forever.

So when I get home last night and receive a message from Palin that he’s open for business, I leap at the chance. I have a read about the sensor fragments I need, go out and get them. A doddle. Took about half an hour (including grabbing a few well directed screenies for my scrapbook).

Obviously having never been to him before I had no idea what mats were required. When I arrive I pay him his filthy lucre, now I’m able to sell him around 3,000,000cr worth of exploration data I had accrued the night before. To the engineers workshop I go.

I had enough mats to G5 (fully) my Python, pin the blueprint, get home and G5 another ship. Now, sure, I only just managed a second ship. I’m now out of one of the mats but it was so easy. No grind.

I guess, as has been said 100 times already, you can just collect these things as you go. You’re only going to run into problems if your sole interest is to never do anything but blow up ships and move onto the next target.

 

[AntonKring]

Something I learned the hard way is that it is better to get the materials that you need directly than being reactive and going to the material trader.

Having said that, going to the material trader proactively to manage your material inventory is better than doing so when you find yourself at an engineer’s base trying to do a job that cannot be done because you’re missing something.

My strategy to minimise grind is to visit material traders when many of the material bays have been filled. I trade some abundant materials for others (6-to-1 ratio maximum) in order to even out the distribution. I think doing this and aiming for most material holds to be half-full provides a more balanced experience, and less pain when visiting engineers.

 

[zimms]

So just as the Thargoid thing hit Palin a week or so ago, I was reading on here about his G5 Dirty Drive engine mods. I checked and I had an invite. Just my luck. Never mind.

I have had the G3 mods on my ship (mainstay Python) forever.

So when I get home last night and receive a message from Palin that he’s open for business, I leap at the chance. I have a read about the sensor fragments I need, go out and get them. A doddle. Took about half an hour (including grabbing a few well directed screenies for my scrapbook).

Obviously having never been to him before I had no idea what mats were required. When I arrive I pay him his filthy lucre, now I’m able to sell him around 3,000,000cr worth of exploration data I had accrued the night before. To the engineers workshop I go.

I had enough mats to G5 (fully) my Python, pin the blueprint, get home and G5 another ship. Now, sure, I only just managed a second ship. I’m now out of one of the mats but it was so easy. No grind.

I guess, as has been said 100 times already, you can just collect these things as you go. You’re only going to run into problems if your sole interest is to never do anything but blow up ships and move onto the next target.

"You'll gather all the mats you'll ever need by simply playing the game" is really not very honest I think. It might be true for a few certain playstyles, but do tell me how many mats you actually gather in e.g. a combat zone? Or as a trader?

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

"You'll gather all the mats you'll ever need by simply playing the game" is really not very honest I think. It might be true for a few certain playstyles, but do tell me how many mats you actually gather in e.g. a combat zone? Or as a trader?

I don’t know about combat, I do very little of it. Trading however, you can earn mats as part of the rewards. Sure you may not find a cargo job offering the very specific mat you’re after but then you can accept the highest mat reward you can find (exactly like you do financially) then take them to a mat trader to get the ones you want.

No more of a grind than doing cargo jobs to save up for that new ship or 6A fuel scoop.

I must check how long I’ve owned this game, I keep saying it’s a year but it must be longer. In the first few months I only did cargo runs (and data transfers). With careful mission selection I was able to engineer some stuff before I’d even landed on a planet and I’ve never once (ever) done any mining.

I accept it is harder if you only combat but then it’s hard to rank up in combat if you only explore or trade. This are the decisions we have to make.

 

[Ethaidan]

UNLOCKING some Engineers is one of the most tedious things in the game. This is why I've decided that if I ever want a fresh start, I'll fly all my ships one by one into the sun (or a level 9 USS) and destroy them all like Tony Stark's suits in Iron Man 3, before I ever click "Clear Save". This is another reason for me to stay on the Playstation platform, LOL.

All the hyperbolic engineering threads momentarily gave me some nerves when I started an alt. I enjoyed all the exploring, learning, etc. the first time round - tbf, I started working towards unlocking engineers as soon as I sold my sidewinder, so I did it while learning about everything else and it fit in quite nicely.

The second time round, it was a piece of p***. I stacked all sorts of unlock tasks, and it flew by. I unlocked and maxed Zach, Selene, Didi and Marco in one short play session. Then the Thargoids attacked!

 

[Urbanski101]

The second time round, it was a piece of p***. I stacked all sorts of unlock tasks, and it flew by. I unlocked and maxed Zach, Selene, Didi and Marco in one short play session. Then the Thargoids attacked!

Did you enjoy it, was it fun?

The line "and it flew by" suggests something unpleasant or boring you have to get through rather than something you actually enjoyed.

I've put off many of these engineer unlocks for years, not because they are difficult but because they are boring and unimaginative and quickly kill my enjoyment of the game. I also (probably unreasonably) feel I'm being trolled by FD, "dance little monkey, dance" sort of thing. Some of the unlocks like gaining rep with a faction is fine, you're just running missions as you would anywhere else but this rares shopping list stuff is just awful. Still I only have to do it once....thankfully.

 

[Ethaidan]

Did you enjoy it, was it fun?

The line "and it flew by" suggests something unpleasant or boring you have to get through rather than something you actually enjoyed.

I've put off many of these engineer unlocks for years, not because they are difficult but because they are boring and unimaginative and quickly kill my enjoyment of the game. I also (probably unreasonably) feel I'm being trolled by FD, "dance little monkey, dance" sort of thing. Some of the unlocks like gaining rep with a faction is fine, you're just running missions as you would anywhere else but this rares shopping list stuff is just awful. Still I only have to do it once....thankfully.

I did. I had a fresh Cmdr with a new purpose, based myself in a new region of space, tried ships I had never flown before, and got with playing the game - with all the knowledge to ease through it while enjoying the early stage challenges. I look forward to visiting guardian sites and playing around there.