Does ED favor griefing/exploits?

[Darth Ender]

The problem stems from the need to re-assure the userbase that those who are discovered with evidence of exploiting (be it combat logging or other hacks) that they are being punished and the userbase can see that punishment and it's not some black hole that evidence and complaints go into with absolutely no way of knowing anything was done about it. That lack of knowledge that things are getting done (and i dont think anything has even started in this respect) is far more damaging and harmful to future gameplay than hurting the feelings of a player who should for all purposes be considered a cancer that needs to be cut out from the playerbase and not cared about at all.

it shouldn't be the players who do that kind of shaming. it should be FD. Evidence in hand, then public punishment. No secret shady handling of those who hack or exploit the game.

 

[Amaze]

I Like this one ;-) lots of log offs

[video=youtube;JUwgl6ev3bA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUwgl6ev3bA&index=4&list=PL1IPnWNhggJyTId_20pcTx3ukOAKJwm3t[/video]

No combat log offs in that video. No combat in that video.

There may be something wrong with your connection.

Watch in that vid @22min the cmrd does not actually even leave the game yet is accused of logoff

 

[Darth Ender]

the connection between the players already exists if they are shown in SC.. so if the connection exists, nothing short of game bugs or purposeful disconnecion would conveniently kill the connection just when interdiction is eminent.

That being said. Elite does have a networking bug. Although it is not conveniently whenever you are about to get attacked or killed. This bug seems to occur at random and causes windows to stop resolving DNS and disconnect from FD servers. Not individual p2p connections.

That video showed a number of logoffs. Albiet, at 22 minutes, he fails his interdiction rather than completes it and fails to realize this, either due to the game not properly communicating the failed interdiction or possibly due to other issues.

Combat logging is prevalent and real. whether this guy has experienced it so much everything is looking like combat logging even when it's not is moot.

 

[anikaiful]

I think it demonstrates that even if you provide hard evidence that somebody is exploiting/griefing, that Frontier aren't interested, and would rather brush it under the carpet,

RIP any hope of them fixing it then.

Post evidence directly to the support, forum is wrong place for such.

 

[starjump]

Hmm, it wasn't naming and shaming, it was YouTube links, and the person in question coming in to defend himself/gloat/goad.

Still think we should have a thread called "combat logging showcase" where people can post video evidence of witnessed combat logs so they are all in one place for FD to investigate, and we get a great popcorn playlist.

FD has told us to report combat logging. So no need for a thread.

 

[Taimaru]

The problem with naming and shaming is that people could falsify reports for people they don't like.

For example you may not like my posts and therefore you could start naming me as a griefer / hacker / exploiter (which I'm not ). Whilst FD would realise that I wasn't doing any of those things, the community might start hating me as a result of the name/shame.

In addition people that grief / hack or exploit actually like being named as it makes them feel special or famous. They usually have personality issues in real life and being named is an ego trip for them. Therefore, even though you don't like these people, naming and shaming them is equivalent to giving them nice big Christmas present, having the opposite effect to what you are after.

Therefore the best way to deal with griefers / hackers / exploiters is to report them directly to Frontier through the tools provided and let them deal with it, and not let these guys get the advertising they crave.

Frontier did mention in another thread that they were dealing with these people so reporting through the proper channels does work, but it may take time for the investigation to complete.

 

[Sexydino]

FD has told us to report combat logging. So no need for a thread.

Just out of curiosity - suppose that someone keeps logging, and they keep getting reported, yet they keep on doing it and doing it, and nothing happens?

What then?

Quite often, the reason these things end up spilling out onto forums, is because the systems don't work - the guy in the thread from yesterday is still out there doing it - in most other games he would have had his account locked ages ago.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Just out of curiosity - suppose that someone keeps logging, and they keep getting reported, yet they keep on doing it and doing it, and nothing happens?

What then?

Quite often, the reason these things end up spilling out onto forums, is because the systems don't work - the guy in the thread from yesterday is still out there doing it - in most other games he would have had his account locked ages ago.

The guy in the thread yesterday is just making a longer rope to be hung on. FDev are waiting for christmas because we all know what kind of bird is traditionally favoured at that time of year! Or waiting until they can't be sued for not fulfilling their contract with the buyer.

Either way, they have stated quite clearly they will deal with it.

Stop digging, my friends. Or maybe this graphic will help you to...

Spoiler

 

[CdrTwisted]

The problem stems from the need to re-assure the userbase that those who are discovered with evidence of exploiting (be it combat logging or other hacks) that they are being punished and the userbase can see that punishment and it's not some black hole that evidence and complaints go into with absolutely no way of knowing anything was done about it. That lack of knowledge that things are getting done (and i dont think anything has even started in this respect) is far more damaging and harmful to future gameplay than hurting the feelings of a player who should for all purposes be considered a cancer that needs to be cut out from the playerbase and not cared about at all.

it shouldn't be the players who do that kind of shaming. it should be FD. Evidence in hand, then public punishment. No secret shady handling of those who hack or exploit the game.

“Justice should not only be done, but should manifestly and undoubtedly be seen to be done.” - Lord Hewart, R v Sussex ex parte McCarthy [1924] 1 KB 256; [1923] All ER Rep 233

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Yes, we should all be invited to room 101 to enjoy the spectacle of Justice. (or not!)

 

[Javert]

The problem with naming and shaming is that people could falsify reports for people they don't like.

For example you may not like my posts and therefore you could start naming me as a griefer / hacker / exploiter (which I'm not ). Whilst FD would realise that I wasn't doing any of those things, the community might start hating me as a result of the name/shame.

In addition people that grief / hack or exploit actually like being named as it makes them feel special or famous. They usually have personality issues in real life and being named is an ego trip for them. Therefore, even though you don't like these people, naming and shaming them is equivalent to giving them nice big Christmas present, having the opposite effect to what you are after.

Therefore the best way to deal with griefers / hackers / exploiters is to report them directly to Frontier through the tools provided and let them deal with it, and not let these guys get the advertising they crave.

Frontier did mention in another thread that they were dealing with these people so reporting through the proper channels does work, but it may take time for the investigation to complete.

I understand. I guess part of the issue here is that if you can't refer to such videos, it's then difficult to debate and educate other players about what should / should not be reported. One person might think someone is a hacker, whereas another, upon viewing the video, might then say no that person is not a hacker they are just using chaff to avoid the station guns, or they have 9 zillion shield cells in that ship or whatever. Also one person might say this is griefing whilst another might say no this is just role play as a murderer or whatever.

Likewise when someone claims a ship went from 5% hull to 100% hull miraculously whilst in battle, without seeing a video you don't know whether what they believe they saw is truly something suspicious.