I've put a bot in charge of promoting Space Engineers. How's it working?
Does FDev care about botting?
- Thread starter Machnette
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I'll have you know there is nothing 'questionable' in any Kumo Burger- every one is 100% marked slave, no animal flesh, soya, filler or tofu guaranteed.
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To be honest I’ve come close to buying it a couple of times, based solely on your recommendation. Might be giving it a try soon
Yea but what's in the cheese?
Its printed silly, like all 3307 cheese is.
How's that done? I thought to use VA you had to assign a spoken word and tell it a key press to use? How can it do something that doesn't have a key bind?It's not about automation software. It's whether that automation is "designed to modify or defeat the purpose or experience of the Game"
Else they should have a word with whoever sanctioned VoiceAttack.
I mean we dont get a bind for Docking request, but guess what, we can talk VA into it...
the argument against such simple macro software such as va and how that is very closely treading on cheating as bot software that does more complicated actions via visual recognition software all leads back to Fdev making all of the game mechanics something a macro can accomplish. By making their barriers something a macro can do. In other words, by making all of the game mechanics nothing but grind loops.
Grind loops have their place in games as very low paying but easy jobs that should take forever to progress beyond some initial "level" by doing repeatedly. Such that players dont care if people are using bots on it or not for a few hours a day (having one play longer than realistic is detectable). All of the meaningful rewards (be them currency or altering the BGS etc) should only be accomplished by tests of skill that would be beyond the ability of bots (outside of those that are professionally created and require significant computing power to pull off, aka not widely used by players) .
Looking over the posts Each CMDRs position seems to come down to whether the 'bots affect their game. Don't care about BGS ? Big deal, 'bots are ruining it for someone. The point is that once these things start, there will be other uses for them. Sure, BGS manipulation seems like a niche thing, but it's a start. Shrugging your shoulders and declaring "BFD" will only encourage it.
BUT.. lets take another look. What if they were used for something else ? Like making sure to trade at max profit, and depressing the markets for traders ? Or exploring 24/7 for weeks, and scarfing up all the "discovered by" tags ? Or ten laser Battle Cutters with 15k shields jumping into a single CZ ( Hah ! If they could get the same instance ! ). My point is it doesn't take long for new uses to appear.
FD needs to stomp this out, and now.
BUT.. lets take another look. What if they were used for something else ? Like making sure to trade at max profit, and depressing the markets for traders ? Or exploring 24/7 for weeks, and scarfing up all the "discovered by" tags ? Or ten laser Battle Cutters with 15k shields jumping into a single CZ ( Hah ! If they could get the same instance ! ). My point is it doesn't take long for new uses to appear.
FD needs to stomp this out, and now.
the only way FD can stomp out the current generation of bots is if they made game mechanics that can't be easily scripted to accomplish.
You can't keep the gameplay the way it currently exists and expect to not have bot use continue to grow (as well as cheat tools that facilitate those bots)
The solution starts with graduating from grind mechanics into something that takes some actual creativity and thought to design.
You can't keep the gameplay the way it currently exists and expect to not have bot use continue to grow (as well as cheat tools that facilitate those bots)
The solution starts with graduating from grind mechanics into something that takes some actual creativity and thought to design.
Monstrous, if you ask me...
Enjoy (it can also be programed to plot a course, but you'd probably have to define a number of destinations)
maybe doable in the engine?
Could be, or maybe i read too much into it
That's from the official description of FD Cobra Engine
You have no evidence they aren't?
Pug
I disagree. Whole heartedly. This does not require an update.
I can think of at least three ways to track suspected 'bots right now that would require no changes to the game. Just run a script thru the logs and you'd pull enough to narrow down your list to hi-probability suspects.. refer those to actual humans for a quick look-see for confirmation. If I can run PERL scripts thru the firewall logs for 5k end users and SPAM filter logs for 750k emails a day, and automate it so I have reports in my email every morning, FD should be able to do it.
Once you've found one, since they operate in swarms, it'll be easy to find a bunch more operated by the C+C leader, either by IP's, common jump routes, or activity. Simple examples of this :
Example 1 : Bot A has been logged in and moving for 34 days straight, averaging a jump every 3 minutes, and landing for BGS supplies every 17 minutes, between the same two stations. Humans DIE after 3 or 4 days without sleep. Might wanna check that out..
Example 2 : Bot B has done nothing except move supplies between point A and B for two weeks, making exactly 37 runs a night, starting at 8:01pm and ending at 3:59am. Humans aren't that reliable.. Look into that.
Example 3 : Bots A, B, C, D... and L are all operating from behind IP X.X.X.X ( or a very small IP range like a /27 ). Either it's a college dorm that's REALLY into ED or.... it's a 'Bot army.
Example 4 : Bots A, B, C, D, ... Z all started the game within a few weeks of each other. All of them docked at FC "Haxorz Rules" in their starter Sidey, traded for 3 minutes ( at the FCs loss ) until they all had enough to buy and outfit identical T-10's ( again at the FC ), and then immediately started BGS work. That's either a heck of a coincidence, or... And while you're at it, in this example, nuke the FC's account too.
Sure, you might have to play whack-a-mole for 4/5 cycles, but as you refine your searches you'll eventually make it so a 'bot isn't worth the hassle. And all the while they'll be burning accounts that have to be purchased. Eventually the cost catches up with you, even if you're getting them in a humble bundle.
In the good old AAA MMORPG days, bots were used to farm resources which were then sold for real world money on shady sites. I remember watching hordes of toons edge walking instances, spamming meta skill sets, harvesting mob loot and returning to the town to drop off loot and start over. This was happening nearly 20 years ago now.
Though it pains me to say it, the BGS is the end game content in ED.
I think it is risky to alienate the most dedicated players devoted to the BGS. Other titles in the same genre may actually be available soon.
I could be totally wrong, but I am betting FCs may exacerbate this problem. Lowbee toons can gear up faster, FCs can be placed in strategic spots, do big jumps, etc.
Wake me up when Odyssey launches. I want to see those edge walking bots again.
Though it pains me to say it, the BGS is the end game content in ED.
I think it is risky to alienate the most dedicated players devoted to the BGS. Other titles in the same genre may actually be available soon.
I could be totally wrong, but I am betting FCs may exacerbate this problem. Lowbee toons can gear up faster, FCs can be placed in strategic spots, do big jumps, etc.
Wake me up when Odyssey launches. I want to see those edge walking bots again.
A. You're in an arms race against a much larger number of incentivized individuals. You will lose that arms race. All you're depending on is fuzzy pattern matching. Something that will easily escalate into much more complicated patterns that are much harder to match without high amounts of false positives.
B. Fdev has zero incentive to care about winning this arms race. . or even escalating it.
In the end, a lot of effort from Fdev to stop something that results in at best, no change or impact to non-cheating users and much more likely results in false positives that players will have to deal with or periodic prompts asking them to do something "only a human would"
Where as my suggestion kills multiple birds with a single stone. Improve the gameplay so you dont have everything stupidly easily to accomplish for significant rewards and you kill the bots and improve gameplay for everyone at the same time.
edit: well, you dont necessarily kill the bots, you just kill how effective they are. Making them a waste of time on par with manually doing the grind activities when you're not just starting out and the meager rewards are still significant to you.
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that's your job, which you do because you get paid for it.
frontier doesn't want to do that job because nobody is paying them for it, and all while not giving a flying fig they have money gushing in in spades anyway because in reality the vast majority doesn't care, or would give them money no matter what.
also, if what you say is really so easy to automate then ... consider that your actual job may be at risk.
Having a virtual beef with lot of people would certainly explain the sudden BGS changes without any bots required.
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