Dove Enigma UA bombed, preventing completion of its voyage in time for the man it was named for.

[Shinji Ikari]

I'm not one in real life to turn a blind eye to bullies. I've read the thread and I've thought about the situation, but there are certain posters in this thread acting very reprehensibly. It's not a matter of calmness but one of respect for people. The usual griefing situations are normally met with the cries of "it's just a game" or "it's allowed", but this case is different. This time it's not just a game, it's much more than that.

I wish I could do more to solve this "problem". I wish the game wasn't designed to empower griefers to negatively impact other people. I wish other people weren't so intent on spreading misery and malcontent. I wish Frontier wasn't so willing to allow it. "Thinking more" isn't going to accomplish anything, this debate has gone round and round for many years now in countless threads of huge proportions in the Elite community. Thinking hasn't gotten us anywhere, nor has calmness. Maybe this is the time for the opposite of calmness. Maybe it's time to stand up for what's right instead.

Maybe.

I'd say many have already stood up and by thinking more I'm just asking for a more open mind, I honestly find myself misguided in this scenario but I've at least managed to not outrage which is what really matters, emotions.

 

[frostypaw]

That's not what I've been saying at all.

Please review my posts, and I'll be happy to clarify if there continues to be a misunderstanding.

Maybe there's earlier context I've not read, but the last patch hasn't looked good. It's important to be able to understand people's upset and their behaviour under those conditions.

 

[koop26]

my mother died of bone cancer, after 5 long and hard years. i was 9, and barely remember her healthy.

then my wife died of a rarely slow lung cancer, aged 37 and after another 5 terrible years leaving me with 2 kids.

i'm not even going to enumerate all my other relatives who i have seen painfully die.

the last thing i and my family would have wanted is a bunch of strangers on the internet making a show of it. this kind of frivolous social media trash behavior didn't even exist back then. i can not wrap my head around that mentality, but to each their own, this guy and his family still deserve all my respect.

neither would i have wanted a multi million dollar company making a promo out of it and calling it 'emergent content'. holy crap.

i just came to say this, and that the self righteous mob mentality displayed in this thread is no less disgusting than the very ua bombing of that ship.

just so you know and can all promptly add me to your ignore lists, kos, or whatever you have. nothing lost.

My heart goes out of you.

But I disagree with your assessment here. It's a different era, with online communities being more important to our social well-being than ever before. We play the games we love, talk to people we like and we do this all online now. That's actually the huge crossroads we've reached. How do we treat each other with compassion without the biological cues of face to face contact? How can we learn to love and respect each other through a screen and keyboard?

This whole situation is less about the developer who created the canvas and the paint, and more about the painter (us). It's our job to do better, and be more kind hearted internet citizens. The only fix for bad online behavior is good online behavior.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

This.

But what will FDEV do? Absolutely nothing, just as they don't care about charity stream sniping or other similar antics. [down]

I'd say they just putted rule consistency over moral, besides, the issue is pretty much being fixed so there is no need to seek external help.

 

[Majic-12]

Maybe there's earlier context I've not read, but the last patch hasn't looked good. It's important to be able to understand people's upset and their behaviour under those conditions.

I think we might be talking about different things, but I can certainly agree with the importance of understanding. [smile]

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Wait, what?
FDev should be praying that hundreds or thousands of people will get displaced or killed by an earthquake?

THIS! Nobody has enough moral to actually care about every poor soul on Earth, this is were your moral comes in and decides who is actually worth caring about.

 

[Mengy]

I'd say many have already stood up and by thinking more I'm just asking for a more open mind, I honestly find myself misguided in this scenario but I've at least managed to not outrage which is what really matters, emotions.

I admit, I am a tad outraged. I have a friend right now who is dying of cancer, slowly. I lost an Uncle a few years ago to cancer, and my girlfriend's mother is battling it right now for the third time in her life but she will probably beat it back, again. It's a terrible thing to go through, let alone watch someone else go through, and I have zero respect for anyone who makes life even more difficult for cancer victims, nor do I respect anyone who supports or defends those who do so.

There shouldn't be anyone on this forum defending this UA bombing, not this time. Not a single person. If you haven't lived through it then you can't know, you just can't, but that's no excuse at all for disrespecting a person who is dying.

 

[kofeyh]

I'm pretty sure the coming server tick will only fix Dove Enigma if enough meta-alloys are delivered beforehand. You can try waiting until after the tick if you can't get to Colonia before Thursday. If the megaship ends up being fixed, then you won't need to go yourself, and if it's not fixed, then you'll have a full week to make a contribution.

But Dove Enigma is definitely not moving. There about a dozen total dockable megaships in the game, and of those only The Gnosis moves around from week to week. Dove Enigma was put in place as a stationary memorial.

As for the impact of UA bombing, all it really does is disable certain station services. You can still dock with a station that has been UA bombed. And even if no one delivers any meta-alloys to a station that has been UA bombed, it will repair itself automatically after several weeks; what meta-alloys do is speed up the repair process.

Okay, yeah see this was what I'm trying to establish; MA absolutely speeds up the recovery 'tick' that ostensibly sets how quickly services repair (which then triggers a services state change on the next weekly cycle). It was more "is this moving, so we have to drop everything and assist"; the OP was a little inflammatory.

I actually love having reasons to do things in game; so this was a great chance to actually do something with a purpose. It's just buried in some really insane levels of righteous indignation and a lot of people have really lost their cool over this.

 

[DoveEnigma13]

Depends on the personality of the cancer victim, doesn’t it?

But if you’re ok with making someone in that situation feel worse just because you can, then that’s between you and your conscience.

As I’ve said before. Maybe it’s not as well known because I’ve only told few players. I’m not just a “cancer guy”

I’ve long suffered tbi and ptsd, as well as tbi from brain surgery to remove a 4cm tumor from my left frontal lobe. Many days I get confused. I have emotional issues. I can differentiate real life from a game, but that’s people flying with me are my friends. It may not be much to some of you, but it was a big thing for me.

 

[Bryan K]

I don't really agree with this.

...so?

 

[Majic-12]

Meanwhile...

I would like to point out that although Frontier seems to be closing in on the culprits as we speak, it's not clear to me at this point that the station was even deliberately disabled.

That seems most likely, of course, but it's possible whoever was responsible for disabling Dove Enigma was motivated by something other than pure malice.

Until the investigation is completed and the findings reported, all we have is speculation.

 

[Bryan K]

As I’ve said before. Maybe it’s not as well known because I’ve only told few players. I’m not just a “cancer guy”

I’ve long suffered tbi and ptsd, as well as tbi from brain surgery to remove a 4cm tumor from my left frontal lobe. Many days I get confused. I have emotional issues. I can differentiate real life from a game, but that’s people flying with me are my friends. It may not be much to some of you, but it was a big thing for me.

Don't stress over this too much, man. We're gonna help however we can. Thousands of tons of MA have already been delivered, and more are on the way. We'll be waiting to welcome you when you arrive, so just enjoy the trip out there.

 

[kofeyh]

I admit, I am a tad outraged.

It's important to separate actuality - life - from online engagements. Life is far more important. It's special, rare, far too short and full of garbage outcomes. We've all been impacted by them.

30+ pages of people shouting past each other and using the person at the center as a tool for some really extreme viewpoints.

This is a game where people can and will do things that may run counter to any given moral compass. I don't defend the actions of the bombing. But I'm not going to engage in one of the worst displays of garbage humanity, to somehow make up for that. Frontier did not specific decide to add, or not add a black market; this is the game doing what it does. And this is in no way on Frontier to sort out.

There is in game action, and external action; and this thread has some abomnibal external actions. None of that is constructive.

I believe we can resolve this by supplying meta alloys in game; and Frontier has taken a neutral position given this is an in game situation, with an in-game solution, and is trying to focus commanders on constructive choices. Forum mods are showing incredible restraint, to allow some pretty frank discussion.

--

And frankly, anyone walking into this thread, with a view to helping, is going to be accosted and dragged into one of the worst sh*t fights I have ever seen. And I've seen some real doozies.

 

[DoveEnigma13]

On the subreddit, I replied to Dove Enigma, the response I got was absolutely awful. No matter your perspective on this, this is unacceptable.

Spoiler

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/236246596810047494/407973787863351307/doveengima.png

I apologize for saying that. It was wrong to say it. I’m sure you’re happy you trolled me into it.

 

[Majic-12]

I apologize for saying that. It was wrong to say it. I’m sure you’re happy you trolled me into it.

Please forgive me if I'm being presumptuous in saying this, but I recommend not letting yourself get dragged into the muck.

There is ugliness, to be sure. We're all only human even on our best days, and not every day is our best day.

But far more prominent is the extraordinary beauty of how all this came together to begin with. There are hundreds, perhaps thousands of commanders all pulling together to honor one of our own, they are joined by Frontier itself, and that is a sight which is truly magnificent to behold.

Though I will not be personally joining you on this journey, please know that you go with my best wishes and highest regards.

Very respectfully yours,

Majic

 

[fabittar]

This is my last post in this thread. Like others, I have lost family recently, thus I'm understandably angry at the people who did this. I'm also disappointed in Frontier for not enforcing their own rules of conduct: this was a personal attack against the players themselves. They did it to be disruptive, to cause anger, to bully a community of players, and a dying man's wish to have a positive experience. Hopefully, he'll still get it, but I fear his emotions got the better of him - as evidenced by his responses thus far -, and what should have been a joyous ride was marred by idiotic, possibly sociopathic players. I'd like to think these are immature children, but the odds and experience tell me these are adults. Much can be said about them and the people who think this is funny. "It's just a game" doesn't cut it. Yes, it is a game. But the circumstance is not, and it was made public for good reason. Also, it doesn't matter if what they did is mechanically permissible. Be it UA bombing or any other means of disruption, what matters is their INTENT; that they purposefully aimed to harm others and produce outrage. Within and without. It had nothing to do with enjoying the game or being antagonistic to other players' characters. This is why they should've been punished. Their intention is obvious, and yet Frontier chose to let it be. I do not wish ill for the people responsible for it. As an atheist, I know there's little causality between wickedness and disease, but if they ever become ill, I'd wish them the best in spite of their past behavior toward others. Finally, some have been quick to judge others: I'm not perfect, neither do I wish to be (or pretend to). Some things in life are simply wrong, and this is my take on it. It saddens me that a small but vocal portion of the player base is given free rein to hurt others unchecked.

I've made my argument. I believe it is a strong argument.

 

[Lucifera Danzig]

This is my last post in this thread. Like others, I have lost family recently, thus I'm understandably angry at the people who did this. I'm also disappointed in Frontier for not enforcing their own rules of conduct: this was a personal attack against the players themselves. They did it to be disruptive, to cause anger, to bully a community of players, and a dying man's wish to have a positive experience. Hopefully, he'll still get it, but I fear his emotions got the better of him - as evidenced by his responses thus far -, and what should have been a joyous ride was marred by idiotic, possibly sociopathic players. I'd like to think these are immature children, but the odds and experience tell me these are adults. Much can be said about them and the people who think this is funny. "It's just a game" doesn't cut it. Yes, it is a game. But the circumstance is not, and it was made public for good reason. Also, it doesn't matter if what they did is mechanically permissible. Be it UA bombing or any other means of disruption, what matters is their INTENT; that they purposefully aimed to harm others and produce outrage. Within and without. It had nothing to do with enjoying the game or being antagonistic to other players' characters. This is why they should've been punished. Their intention is obvious, and yet Frontier chose to let it be. I do not wish ill for the people responsible for it. As an atheist, I know there's little causality between wickedness and disease, but if they ever become ill, I'd wish them the best in spite of their past behavior toward others. Finally, some have been quick to judge others: I'm not perfect, neither do I wish to be (or pretend to). Some things in life are simply wrong, and this is my take on it. It saddens me that a small but vocal portion of the player base is given free rein to hurt others unchecked.

I've made my argument. I believe it is a strong argument.

Frontier ultimately didn't "choose to let it be," the decision was taken out of their hands by player action.

The Dove Enigma is ‘Experiencing Technical Issues.’ This means interference from Thargoid Sensors has been detected and – if not countered – will result in the shutdown of some station services, but this will not happen. From our view of the galaxy we can see an overwhelming number of Commanders taking flight in one direction and with one purpose: to counter the shutdown.

With this staggering outpouring of support, we are confident that the shutdown will be averted as Commanders arrive. Lend them your support if you can, and take part in this new and unexpected chapter in the history of Elite Dangerous.

That doesn't mean there will be no action at all. See, here's the interesting part:

The team have spent their evening investigating the deliveries and they believe the use of a known exploit is possible. We take the use of exploits very seriously, and we will continue the investigation. Should there be evidence of any exploit in use, we will take appropriate action against any commanders found to be using them. The exploit believed to have been used here has already been fixed in the current 3.0 beta, and the fix should be making its way to the live game when the Beyond – Chapter One update goes live.

Edit: Use of a known exploit involving the deliveries of the UAs, not the MAs, if that wasn't clear from the quoted text.

 

[Doctor Zajo]

Emergent gameplay is awesome.

The community coming together to fix it is awesome.

That fact an unsavory character could cause this uproar is awesome.

Frontier staying out of it and letting the player base sort it out is awesome.

 

[Majic-12]

Emergent gameplay is awesome.

The community coming together to fix it is awesome.

That fact an unsavory character could cause this uproar is awesome.

Frontier staying out of it and letting the player base sort it out is awesome.

Dare we say it?

[video=youtube;StTqXEQ2l-Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StTqXEQ2l-Y[/video]

 

[gribley]

This is my last post in this thread. Like others, I have lost family recently, thus I'm understandably angry at the people who did this. I'm also disappointed in Frontier for not enforcing their own rules of conduct: this was a personal attack against the players themselves. They did it to be disruptive, to cause anger, to bully a community of players, and a dying man's wish to have a positive experience. Hopefully, he'll still get it, but I fear his emotions got the better of him - as evidenced by his responses thus far -, and what should have been a joyous ride was marred by idiotic, possibly sociopathic players. I'd like to think these are immature children, but the odds and experience tell me these are adults. Much can be said about them and the people who think this is funny. "It's just a game" doesn't cut it. Yes, it is a game. But the circumstance is not, and it was made public for good reason. Also, it doesn't matter if what they did is mechanically permissible. Be it UA bombing or any other means of disruption, what matters is their INTENT; that they purposefully aimed to harm others and produce outrage. Within and without. It had nothing to do with enjoying the game or being antagonistic to other players' characters. This is why they should've been punished. Their intention is obvious, and yet Frontier chose to let it be. I do not wish ill for the people responsible for it. As an atheist, I know there's little causality between wickedness and disease, but if they ever become ill, I'd wish them the best in spite of their past behavior toward others. Finally, some have been quick to judge others: I'm not perfect, neither do I wish to be (or pretend to). Some things in life are simply wrong, and this is my take on it. It saddens me that a small but vocal portion of the player base is given free rein to hurt others unchecked.

I've made my argument. I believe it is a strong argument.

it wasn't a personal attack on anyone.
it was a lulzy troll that was designed to extract salt, and it succeeded perfectly. no different than me hanging out around the destination station of a passenger exploit when they were a thing and ganking feds after their massive trip on their way to drop off their passangers.
from the killing of salome to the gank at beagle point players have been screwing with players for the salt and fun. this is no different. heck if they had not UA-bombed it they would have acted out of character.
there was no special targeting here, because they target everything.

and FYI i had nothing to do with the UA bombing.