ED Background Simulation - Large Faction Influence Swing Mechanics

I wondered if this thread would come up again after the livestream.

I recommend going to the opening line of the thread again, and read it alongside everything I posted here.

Essentially *the* primary purpose of the BGS is to create a universe that responds to player activity. Dav himself nearly says in the most recent livestream that it does this in an "Imprecise" way (he stops himself and says very unpredictable, or words to that effect).

Disregarding even the nearly-imprecise comment, for the BGS to be considered "balanced", "fair" or any of those things, you absolutely *could not* describe the mechanics as "unpredictable". But they can, because the BGS is *not* primarily for a balanced "board game" style piece of gameplay. This is what Powerplay is for, and why it was never based off the BGS mechanics (because they aren't balanced).

Look, don't get me wrong. Do I wish trading was based off the value and volume of goods traded, rather than the number of transactions? Definitely. Same goes for exploration data, combat bonds, bounties, value of the ship destroyed, everything. But it's not, and a big reason behind that if you read between the lines is that this balanced gameplay is not the primary purpose of the BGS.

I can wish and hope all I want that the BGS will become a balanced and integral component of a gameplay, but equally I can hope and wish that the manufacturers of baseball bats consider revamping their design to consider the practicalities of using it to break into someones house; it just won't happen, because it's not what the baseball bat was designed for, even though a lot of people might use it for that. But they might do some work that do make it more useful for breaking into someones house,,, though that wouldn't have been the design goal initially.

Edit: Chances are if it's not fixed yet, after this long, it's not an easy fix at all. So combine difficult fix with something that's not a major design objective, well, that's kinda low priority to fix.
 
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That was fixed though, we can't allow mechanics like this to be just ignored or just treated like they are a minor or non-issue. This idea that all players are "equal" is rubbish, it doesn't work and will always lead to exploits in the BGS.

It is a minor issue. It is something that can only realistically be used by a small minority of extremely dedicated players.
 
That was fixed though, we can't allow mechanics like this to be just ignored or just treated like they are a minor or non-issue. This idea that all players are "equal" is rubbish, it doesn't work and will always lead to exploits in the BGS.

It took at least one Major point patch for that issue to be fixed. While we all want this issue to be fixed we have to be realistic about development timescales.

Edit - according to the Devs, it is not being ignored.

The central idea is not that all players are equal, the central idea is that all players activities create the dynamism of the galaxy.
 
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It took at least one Major point patch for that issue to be fixed. While we all want this issue to be fixed we have to be realistic about development timescales.

Exactly this. I hope it gets fixed (in a way that still preserves the benefits this affords from *diverse* trading while making profit/loss equally important). But I think there's some severe under-estimation of the effort involved going on here... and when you throw that on top of the fact that balance is, while still considered, likely secondary to mere responsiveness of the sim, it makes complete sense why this hasn't been resolved yet.
 
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Hard to truly understand the change from the info given but it does suggest something like option 2 yes, "avoid exaggerated changes to influence" and "splitting of a single consignment into multiple transactions" almost says everything as single units and a reduction in influence for these types of transactions to balance....

Time to do some testing :)
 
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Deleted member 115407

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Exactly this. I hope it gets fixed (in a way that still preserves the benefits this affords from *diverse* trading while making profit/loss equally important). But I think there's some severe under-estimation of the effort involved going on here... and when you throw that on top of the fact that balance is, while still considered, likely secondary to mere responsiveness of the sim, it makes complete sense why this hasn't been resolved yet.

This is going to sound dubious of me, in light of other recent posts. While I'm glad that they patched it today, I'm interested to see if it will have too negative an impact to the responsiveness you speak of. Still, though, looking forward to seeing how it turns out.
 
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I just back from a bit hiatus, so 1t trading spam has been fixed right?
How about the black market? Can my faction bleed their influence to 0 because of a cmdr in his cutter over and over flooding the blackmarket?
 
I just back from a bit hiatus, so 1t trading spam has been fixed right?
How about the black market? Can my faction bleed their influence to 0 because of a cmdr in his cutter over and over flooding the blackmarket?

Patch notes for 2.3 suggest this has been addressed too.
 
Patch notes for 2.3 suggest this has been addressed too.

Yep, I failed some stacked smuggling missions earlier and sold narcotics and weapons to a black market in a system which seemed to be a fairly low traffic one. I sold about 1mil of goods in a 7mil pop and there was a very small movement in influence for the station faction, 51.7 -> 51.3% and I put that to other factors anyway.
 
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Selling commodities one unit at a time, that sell at a loss to you. The bigger the loss to you, the bigger the loss in influence...some losses can be very high if you want them to be.

Just so that I understand this...Selling stuff on the black market has a bigger negative impact if it sold at a loss compared to items sold for a profit. I'm I correct?
 
Just so that I understand this...Selling stuff on the black market has a bigger negative impact if it sold at a loss compared to items sold for a profit. I'm I correct?

That was never suggested, atleast not how I've read it, commodity and black markets are separate entities. For negative trading both buying and selling through a commodity market was needed AFAIK, I don't see a black market as the same thing.

It doesn't matter anyway, none of the behaviours originally posted are probably valid now, there's been big changes to BGS behaviour with 2.3, unit trading went before 2.3 and some more changes have come in relating to black markets and trading influence swings etc in 2.3

More will become clear as people have some time to test out mechanics again
 
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That was never suggested, atleast not how I've read it, commodity and black markets are separate entities. For negative trading both buying and selling through a commodity market was needed AFAIK, I don't see a black market as the same thing.

It doesn't matter anyway, none of the behaviours originally posted are probably valid now, there's been big changes to BGS behaviour with 2.3, unit trading went before 2.3 and some more changes have come in relating to black markets and trading influence swings etc in 2.3

More will become clear as people have some time to test out mechanics again

It was said in the quote I quoted from the first post. For example: selling beer for -200 (a loss) on the black market will hurt the controlling faction more than selling beer for +200 (profit) on the black market. Are you saying this could have been fixed in 2.3?
 
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It was said in the quote I quoted from the first post. For example: selling beer for -200 (a loss) on the black market will hurt the controlling faction more than selling beer for +200 (profit) on the black market. Are you saying this could have been fixed in 2.3?

Re-read the first post, the 2 things are listed as separate methods 1 and 2, it never suggests anything about combining them together. I would think that trading at a loss (if possible) in a black market would not increase negative swing, it might even reduce it? It's negative by default with profit.

And yes, 2.3 (and a pre 2.3 patch) seems to have addressed a lot of the issues highlighted in this thread (see the first post red text). 2.3 specifically has changed the black market logic, look at the patch notes...more will surface over time on what the implications are but on the face of it the influence

You could always try when you are thinking and let us know how you get on?
 
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Re-read the first post, the 2 things are listed as separate methods 1 and 2, it never suggests anything about combining them together. I would think that trading at a loss (if possible) in a black market would not increase negative swing, it might even reduce it? It's negative by default with profit.

And yes, 2.3 (and a pre 2.3 patch) seems to have addressed a lot of the issues highlighted in this thread (see the first post red text). 2.3 specifically has changed the black market logic, look at the patch notes...more will surface over time on what the implications are but on the face of it the influence

You could always try when you are thinking and let us know how you get on?

I was only talking about method 2. Looks like he just added the red text today and I'm just in time for being late for the party. Thanks for the help!

Edit: One other thing maybe you could help me with. I just want to confirm something. When selecting missions it shows how much rep and influence increase that faction will receive. Rep being your rep with that faction and influence being the factions influence in the system. I noticed that passanger transfer mission tend to have large influence increase. So....If a player faction wanted to take over a system, they should look for missions with a large influence increase? IE Passanger transport missions.

Would this be correct?
 
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I was only talking about method 2. Looks like he just added the red text today and I'm just in time for being late for the party. Thanks for the help!

Edit: One other thing maybe you could help me with. I just want to confirm something. When selecting missions it shows how much rep and influence increase that faction will receive. Rep being your rep with that faction and influence being the factions influence in the system. I noticed that passanger transfer mission tend to have large influence increase. So....If a player faction wanted to take over a system, they should look for missions with a large influence increase? IE Passanger transport missions.

Would this be correct?

If missions works correctly, and it appears not to be the case right now, yes that would be the correct strategy. Of course you also have to factor in actual mission distribution, passenger missions are usually less abundant than the others (and it makes sense, after all).
 
If missions works correctly, and it appears not to be the case right now, yes that would be the correct strategy. Of course you also have to factor in actual mission distribution, passenger missions are usually less abundant than the others (and it makes sense, after all).
Awesome, thanks.
 
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