ED game mechanics that are now pointless :(

Totally agreed. All of these "OMG THE GAME IS TOO EASY" things seem to stem from people who already did the grind, and now wouldn't even care if all those things got implemented.

On the other side: small ship mining SUCKS. And all of those costs are straight costs, they're still not meaningful to people with billions in assets, but they want costs that WOULD be meaningful to new players.

Baseless assumptions. I have 2.3mil in the bank, my biggest ship is a cobra mk IV. Before restting my save I was a dedicated explorer, and had to contact support to reset my account manually as I had too many explored systems to my name, which made the feature built into the client timeout.

I'm interested in these changes because they would affect me.
 
Since Frontier is incapable to deal with board flipping cheaters who even post their cheats right here on Frontier's own site, earning credits, naval ranks or collecting materials for engineers is pointless. Just cheat.

What makes you think they're incapable? They just don't think that board flipping is a huge issue, and have said as much. Personally I'm hoping that some of their core game improvements in 3.0 will include missions. Ideally an overhaul of the whole system. But, in the meantime, board flipping really is not a huge issue. I don't bother with because in the time it takes to board flip I could be having fun flying my ship, and just go to another station with another mission board. You also don't really need to flip much anymore as you can get decent missions without.
 
Perhaps, in some regards, it was better when games were developed and released, and updates/patches were almost exclusively for bug fixes. New content provided via updates was the result of the developer's road map rather than player feedback. Games that were intially funded by the players only seem to have exacerbated the problems.

Players complain and make demands ("provide feedback") with expectation that developers will respond directly and take action as needed. Developer makes changes per player "feedback".

Some time passes, and players provide feedback amd suggestion that things whould be returned to how they were before.

A big challenge for may industries is to move from reactive to scheduled activities, as increased reactive work load equals decreased performance, ability to progress and increased costs.
 
* Spacestation docking fees. At one time these were a meaningful amount, but now they are effectively zero. (Actually, I'm not even sure they exist anymore, without checking the game. They are THAT low.) Larger ships should be charged a reasonable sum for docking.
Docking fees would make a lot of sense. I wouldn't mind that.

* Ship heat stealth mechanic. You used to be able to get your heat down to "0", so your ship iced-up & became invisible to sensors. This was fun/immersive, but then FDev heavily nerfed this in favour of pressing a button (for silent running) that has almost no discernible audio/visual effect. A great shame. ED's newsletter even highlighted a video demonstrating it... shortly before they effectively removed it.
There's an audio when the heatsink is dumped. Rather loud actually.

* Ship wear & tear due to usage/travelling. Originally ships wore out quickly, just from a handful of jumps/etc, but players disliked having to frequently repair each ship component individually. So FDev massively reduced wear & tear, and then later added a quick "Repair All" button on station menus. So now (I assume) everyone just taps this Repair All button as a reflex, every time they dock, making wear & tear meaningless (except for explorers). FDev even spent a lot of effort making exciting malfunctions randomly occur at lower ship health, but now we only see these in PvP battles aimed at making them happen... 'Never' do they occur from just normal ship usage.
Ship wear/tear (paint job) and ship integrity do not automatically get done with "Repair All". Repair all only repairs the modules and such, but after a month or so out in exploring, your ships paint is down to zero and if you want it repainted, you have to go into the repair screen and request it specifically, same for the integrity.
 
Tip Off missions. The last 2 I've done payed out less then 100k combined. Next Tip Off goes directly into the garbage.
Really... that sucks. Last time (2 months ago) I had one, it payed around 900k at least. But 100k? That's not even paying for the time clicking on the accept button.
 
I'd still rather keep those mechanics OP, they still add flavour regardless. Although i would like to be able to reach the same cool running levels we could before... and i guess it is possible still, but only with heavy engineering on the right ship.
 

Lestat

Banned
I agree with most of the points. Fuel prices. Maybe they should look into DDF forums on their original idea. With different grades of fuel.

Repair cost. I think it would be good idea to have it cost more. With players that have 9 billion Credits and nothing to spend it on but other ships. A few Million in repairs on a Anaconda is nothing to the Elite players.
 
I personally don't agree much with the OP. Adding money sinks does not in my opinion enhance game play, unless you happen to be one of those who enjoys money management.
Different grades of fuel for different ships so fuel costs more? So different file scoops for different ships so that they harvest different elements from stars? Or the fuel scoops for different ships process different elements from stars?
There is already a repair integrity button in advanced maintenance.
Never realized there was any actual docking fees. But how would this enhance gameplay? Unless you're the management sort and are really into the nickel and dime gameplay. Yes in the real world there is always docking fees. Heck, I pay every month for parking at my apartment (closest description I have to where I live that most people here can understand.) However, I play games to get away from the real world bovine biowaste of pay my bills.

Just my 2 cents.
Have fun, fly safe. o7
 
Yes I agree with the OP largely - nice write up. The fuel costs don't worry me too much though, maybe fuel is cheap - I can run with that - though it's a fair argument.

However, whilst repair costs were over the top initially, I think somewhere in between would be much better. It's easy to say this doesn't affect gameplay but once repair costs become something to worry about, it actually changes things - it encourages skilful combat as it's not only about winning but about winning with minimal damage. So someone who his consistently good and dispatches the enemy efficiently gets rewarded.

Now where it was, was too harsh as it discouraged combat. What I'd have gone for is somewhere in between but perhaps also increase combat pay-outs to cover the cost - i.e. dangle the carrot rather than remove the punishment. (Though actually where they are is probably about right)

along with the OP content I'd put NPC interdictions in there also - they don't work as a threat mechanism at all, as they are very easy to evade and even if you don't manage to, once you know how, they are easy to get away from. All the risk in missions/anarchies just doesn't exist for me currently.

Whist I'm at it, I'd also like a change to the mechanics that govern kills - it feels too far the other way now where I just turn up, hit the pirate, and let the police clean up. I'm sure there's a better and more believable mechanic to make it some kind of challenge.

Here's hoping they take a serious look at these mechanics for 3.0. :)
 
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Even Silent Running is mostly pointless now. When i smuggle in my Annie as soon as i hear "Scan Detected" i just pop a heatsink. Breaks the scan for 30 or so seconds. Don't even need to rig for silent.

Especially now that with upgraded thrusters, you can just swoosh into every station before they can scan you.
 
This may surprise many people in this thread, but the game hasn't been spoiled by those "crying".

It is obvious some features were too bothersome or hidden within the game and were done away with in favour of making the game better for the majority - effectively, streamlining the game for a better gaming experience.

No one wants to spend the only 1 or 3 hours a night they have (after being at work all day, etc, etc, life) fixing their ship's in intricate time-consuming ways.

The majority of players play the game because it is a game - it is not "dangerous real life simulator".

Sure, I like some aspects of it feeling a bit like it, the seriousness of the game, but if this game was seriously over-developing maintaining your ship, fueling your ship, re-arming your ship, the game still wouldn't have left beta and would be like Star Citizen: Forever.

There's another space sim doing that exact same thing at the moment (name escapes me), but watching people play that game on youtube is just painful - it took one guy several hours just to work out how to get outside a station and even remotely use his ship because everything was "hands on" - everything.

If Elite was like that, the game wouldn't be the success it is now - and it already has a steep learning curve to contend with.

Sometimes, simple is best. I think Frontier have done a great job so far, and the amount of science already piled into it has taught me a great deal - it is a very educational game once you learn how to play it properly - a lot of stuff raised in this thread is really pretty trivial and no other space sim has pulled it off successfully in the way of sales and media recognition. You don't get mass reviews from an overly complicated game that people will just get refunded after getting really frustrated within the first 2 hours of playing it.
 
This may surprise many people in this thread, but the game hasn't been spoiled by those "crying".

It is obvious some features were too bothersome or hidden within the game and were done away with in favour of making the game better for the majority - effectively, streamlining the game for a better gaming experience.

No one wants to spend the only 1 or 3 hours a night they have (after being at work all day, etc, etc, life) fixing their ship's in intricate time-consuming ways.

The majority of players play the game because it is a game - it is not "dangerous real life simulator".

Sure, I like some aspects of it feeling a bit like it, the seriousness of the game, but if this game was seriously over-developing maintaining your ship, fueling your ship, re-arming your ship, the game still wouldn't have left beta and would be like Star Citizen: Forever.

There's another space sim doing that exact same thing at the moment (name escapes me), but watching people play that game on youtube is just painful - it took one guy several hours just to work out how to get outside a station and even remotely use his ship because everything was "hands on" - everything.

If Elite was like that, the game wouldn't be the success it is now - and it already has a steep learning curve to contend with.

Sometimes, simple is best. I think Frontier have done a great job so far, and the amount of science already piled into it has taught me a great deal - it is a very educational game once you learn how to play it properly - a lot of stuff raised in this thread is really pretty trivial and no other space sim has pulled it off successfully in the way of sales and media recognition. You don't get mass reviews from an overly complicated game that people will just get refunded after getting really frustrated within the first 2 hours of playing it.

I'd like you to not speak for the majority of players until you get some hard numbers. I'd actually really enjoy intricately repairing my space-faring vessel. I already played Space Invaders, and even Galaga! Elite can afford to be a bit more complex.
 
As long as the game doesn't punish you for playing it, then I'm fine with some increased costs here and there. However, we must be very careful when asking for such things, because developers these days have seemingly forgotten how to make incremental adjustments, and only large swings one way or the other.
 
You are right that game difficulty is a matter of balance. HOWEVER, repair and fuel costs are so low that they are completely meaningless, which also happens to be the point of OP. They could just as well remove repairing and refueling from the game (=make it free) because there is no way a few thousand credits could hurt your bank account in any meaningful way.

Repair and Refueling, no matter what the cost, are important game play features that add to realism. Removing them would significantly reduce immersion and remove other gameplay elements (from fuel scooping to fuel rats). So a big resounding NO to this "idea".
 
I think we have bigger fish to fry at the moment, like creating meaningful EVA possibilities, or just exploring the inside of your ship. That would add so much to the immersion factor right now, and once that's done we can go back and take a look at some of the more mundane aspects of the game's mechanics.
 
I feel like I have nothing to do with my hard earned credits.

I want to buy small outposts, many ships, hire many pilots and go raiding with an entire squadron of ships. I want to purchase entire armies of SRV's and other battlestuff and go raiding for conquest on surfaces. Fighting for domination against other cmdr's armies and ships and taking expensive losses when ships and crew are killed or destroyed in fun and exciting battles.
When I run out of money I return doing CG's, missions and trading. Even some exploration maybe to find new places and solving unfathomable mysteries.

But at least I have a higher purpose in doing CG's, missions and trading. The quest for domination costs, and I am willing to pay for my fun.
 
Repair and Refueling, no matter what the cost, are important game play features that add to realism. Removing them would significantly reduce immersion and remove other gameplay elements (from fuel scooping to fuel rats). So a big resounding NO to this "idea".

"Realism" and "immersion" are killing this game.

I love sims. I play racing sims and flight sims. I love realism. But the sims I play also have challenge.

If managing fuel costs and docking fee were a challenging aspect of the game in terms of a survival game then great. But usually, you have so much money these fees are totally meaningless.
 
This may surprise many people in this thread, but the game hasn't been spoiled by those "crying".

It is obvious some features were too bothersome or hidden within the game and were done away with in favour of making the game better for the majority - effectively, streamlining the game for a better gaming experience.

No one wants to spend the only 1 or 3 hours a night they have (after being at work all day, etc, etc, life) fixing their ship's in intricate time-consuming ways.

The majority of players play the game because it is a game - it is not "dangerous real life simulator".

Sure, I like some aspects of it feeling a bit like it, the seriousness of the game, but if this game was seriously over-developing maintaining your ship, fueling your ship, re-arming your ship, the game still wouldn't have left beta and would be like Star Citizen: Forever.

There's another space sim doing that exact same thing at the moment (name escapes me), but watching people play that game on youtube is just painful - it took one guy several hours just to work out how to get outside a station and even remotely use his ship because everything was "hands on" - everything.

If Elite was like that, the game wouldn't be the success it is now - and it already has a steep learning curve to contend with.

Sometimes, simple is best. I think Frontier have done a great job so far, and the amount of science already piled into it has taught me a great deal - it is a very educational game once you learn how to play it properly - a lot of stuff raised in this thread is really pretty trivial and no other space sim has pulled it off successfully in the way of sales and media recognition. You don't get mass reviews from an overly complicated game that people will just get refunded after getting really frustrated within the first 2 hours of playing it.

To me it is not about adding difficulty or frustraction for "realism"
Maintence and running costs can still be a button push in my books (I just assume it happens off screen when I am not playing for my immerison needs)

It was about different running costs for different ships based on whether they were in game called high performance or not

the prime Example was the Type 7 and the Clipper, oft debated on the forums

Both were in the same price bracket but the Clipper shining in so many ways.

But the Lakon Type 7 had a tiny mainence bill compared to the Clipper.

Which mean the Type 7 could carry less profitable cargo and still make a good profit where as the Clipper Cmdr would focus on the best profits per ton to off set those higher running cost.

When combine with the time Players had greater effects on the market and systems supplys could become short without a CG and the Clipper Cdrms would focus on the high profit items and move on quickly when that niche dried up, where as the Lakon Cmdrs, could continue with the less profitable items, which had a great supply.

Ideally it isnt a "struggle to begin with and forgotten after 2 hours" but a factor one takes account of in ones over all strategy and plans, not crippling but not to be ignored if you want the optium apporach,a nd would create a more dyamnic apporach to trading.

Just as Zorg Petersens Hauler and Adder being low Mainence low cost Trader and Multi Role to compete with the more expense to run Falcon Delacy Cobra even if they are still not a match for her on paper they are so cheap to run they became otpiosn at the begining.

It is about making choices and options more meaning but in a way that is not restrictive over call, as you could just eat the extra running costs if you didnt care about minmising costs and maximising profits to that extent.
 
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