It would be really pleasant for many backers, I think, that Frontier, make a presentation of the solution implementation. In responding to your knowledge, here for example.
ED Server / Servers Down problems discussion thread
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It would be really pleasant for many backers, I think, that Frontier, make a presentation of the solution implementation. In responding to your knowledge, here for example.
But replicating the meta server does not make P2P faster. You have upto 32 players in an instance with 1 of those players acting in the role of a classic server in a client server with another player acting as a secondary. The 2 players assuming the role of the servers communicate infrequently with the meta-server. Non server acting players will communicate even more infrequently - when leaving and joining groups. Even at this point lag has absolutely no bearing.
The only time lag is important is when you are in close formation. Then you are dependent on the connection speed and response of a player whose instance you are in.
@ Doctor : I haven't read the paper yet, I've been on my phone all weekend but I read the abstract and it mentioned nodes arriving and departing. Without reading exactly how they propose to implement it I can't say but connecting to the meta-server is not a lag dependent event.
The only time lag is important is when you are in close formation. Then you are dependent on the connection speed and response of a player whose instance you are in.
@ Doctor : I haven't read the paper yet, I've been on my phone all weekend but I read the abstract and it mentioned nodes arriving and departing. Without reading exactly how they propose to implement it I can't say but connecting to the meta-server is not a lag dependent event.
@Graham. Sigh, I have tried to explain to you. The mirrored meta is to handle local P2P. P2P can be done in many ways. ie:clusters, K-D, etc. The local P2P is the bottleneck if done wrong and lag is a factor. Let me explain. I play 7 online games currently. I watch TV, mostly the Science, History and Scifi channels but others too. I play 8 solo player games. I am very active in 3 forums now. I try to have a life with my neighbors, friends, relatives and my 2 grandsons. I do not have the time to get into a extremely detailed conversation about this. It is a very, very complicated subject. I'm sorry if I gave that impression. I was just trying to make you understand. First of all I did not invent this idea. It was made years ago and is in use by current games as we speak. It is not a idea, it is a real life working thing right now. I don't know what else to tell you mate. I hope when you read the paper and others you can google you will see how it works. For all I know, ED already is using the system. If anyone else cares to take up the challenge of finding high details of the differences, please do so. I am done with this thread as I just do not have the time to put into it. Thanks and take care! 
So? I write software for a living and read academic papers for fun, quite a few of which are on the subject of P2P and games.
While kd trees and various other spacial algorithms are good but there is a better one: the actual game. A player will not need to communicate with anyone other than those in the same system as the player and only those that will be able to directly interact with that player.
Once two groups who are eligible to be joined are, which at the distances you start at in relation to each other is not time sensitive, then you will be communicating directly with the other players. Having a meta server at the end of your street would not be a benefit as you won't be talking to it.
Mirroring servers is useful for C/S games, but not P2P. Please elucidate.
While kd trees and various other spacial algorithms are good but there is a better one: the actual game. A player will not need to communicate with anyone other than those in the same system as the player and only those that will be able to directly interact with that player.
Once two groups who are eligible to be joined are, which at the distances you start at in relation to each other is not time sensitive, then you will be communicating directly with the other players. Having a meta server at the end of your street would not be a benefit as you won't be talking to it.
Mirroring servers is useful for C/S games, but not P2P. Please elucidate.
Just read that paper you linked to. Turns out I had read it previously. The basic jist of the paper is that you break a bottleneck - a single machine with a large index - by replicating the index onto another peer within the network. Not exactly useful for E:d since their largest group will be 32 players and more interested in data that is highly temporal in nature.
NPC ships, server or peer to peer or local controlled AI
In a game where you play over the internet with all or some friends NPC ship movement AI must be server or at least peer to peer controlled.
In a game that has no internet connection then the NPC AI must be calculated on your machine possibly improving response rates.
The question I have is for the game mode where you wish not to play with other player ships flying around you but you do permit your game to effect the ED universe and visa versa. In this game mode is all NPC AI calculated locally? I would hope it would be...
Edit: When I say in this "NPC AI" I am just referring to the NPC ship movement AI, not in game characters or economics or missions and such.
In a game where you play over the internet with all or some friends NPC ship movement AI must be server or at least peer to peer controlled.
In a game that has no internet connection then the NPC AI must be calculated on your machine possibly improving response rates.
The question I have is for the game mode where you wish not to play with other player ships flying around you but you do permit your game to effect the ED universe and visa versa. In this game mode is all NPC AI calculated locally? I would hope it would be...
Edit: When I say in this "NPC AI" I am just referring to the NPC ship movement AI, not in game characters or economics or missions and such.
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I think it would have to be local. I think the server is only for account verification as well as personal and universe statistics as well as events. Everything else is local.
It would have to be calculated on one of the peers within a session.
Maybe, but then what happens if that peer disconnects/leaves the session either by logging out or flying away? Are the AI calculations handed over to someone else? It's not like they just can disappear into thin air...
You mean online solo ?
Probably the same as online group / all - server controlled (I hope)
If it's entirely locally controlled that's so open for abuse it kind of puts a dampner on things.
My hope is that AI is calculated per machine, and then some sort of 'majority rules' system decides what to do in case of discrepancies. As far as I understand, that would be the least hackable system. I did read something about P2P AI recently here after searching for some info, but most of it is well beyond my comprehension.
Nice read - will be interesting to see how FD deal with this.
As long as the P2P updates are frequent enough I think that per-machine AIs could act deterministically (in response to the last fully known session state) and thus consistently across all peers.
But thinking about it, if there's one client with a laggy connection, it might be more desirable to have the AIs act on partial information, with the laggy peer being "corrected" as you suggest (bad luck for him!)
This part is complete mystery, and IT geek in me would want to know all juicy details (without spilling any exclusive trade secrets) how FD manage this. I guess it is very related with fact that you can predict AI actions, still...there's lot of questions there. Just very very curious
Online solo yes, but also the case where you only connect to sync universe data both ways...
I suppose they are different modes ?
I think I remember DB saying that when a offline player came online to update stats there would be checks needed to ensure they had not hacked an unreasonable amount of credits etc since last sync. That comment was in the kickstarter, it may all be different now ? Maybe that mode of play is not even available now ?
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So far everything indicates that offline commanders won't able to play online. But it's not confirmed or denied, so we'll see.
Good question - it had not occurred to me at all before but I'd be interested to know how they will handle this.
Forgive me if I am mistaken... as I understand things, I thought it would be:
1. SP mode - ELITE on your PC
2. MP Mode - ELITE on a server
Whether you choose to play with other players when you are on MP is your choice, isn't it? Just like in an MMO, you can log in, and do nothing except hang out in town? Or run around the various "zones" on your own without a group?
If so, then the question is only whether your savegame ("profile") can be used both in SP and MP, or must you create separate profiles.
If 1 profile can be used for SP and MP, then I guess checks must be made for anti-cheating and data syncing. I would be interested to know how the NPC AI ships work in MP too... whether it's all done by the server, or done on your PC but synced to server to verify, or whatever new and interesting methods
1. SP mode - ELITE on your PC
2. MP Mode - ELITE on a server
Whether you choose to play with other players when you are on MP is your choice, isn't it? Just like in an MMO, you can log in, and do nothing except hang out in town? Or run around the various "zones" on your own without a group?
If so, then the question is only whether your savegame ("profile") can be used both in SP and MP, or must you create separate profiles.
If 1 profile can be used for SP and MP, then I guess checks must be made for anti-cheating and data syncing. I would be interested to know how the NPC AI ships work in MP too... whether it's all done by the server, or done on your PC but synced to server to verify, or whatever new and interesting methods
Syncing I think referred to offline single player when you were patching. You might be able to pull down the galaxy meta data to bring your galaxy up to date but offline / online chars shouldn't be able to mix.
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