Discussion EDCoPilot adds new "time trial" racing feature to the huge list of things this "virtual cockpit assistant" can do

I feel a bit preumptious posting this forum thread since, despite EDCoPilot having been around a long time, I only discovered it relatively recently.

However it seems not to have a forum thread of its own and I desparately wanted to share its new "time trial" racing feature with the community here.

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Without further ado I'll let the video I made to demonstrate this new feature show you what it's all about.

Source: https://youtu.be/pRCf9o4qGUQ

The "time trial" feature is currently in beta testing for which you have to explicitly request access permission but is due to go full release real soon now.

If you're curious about what else EDCoPilot can do (it's a LOT) then check out the feature list over on its own website.
 
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Being a lover of 3rd party apps I can't believe I haven't stumbled across this one already. A cursory glance at its features list says i'm installing it. Good find Alec and good call on making a thread. Also gets me thinking I really should get into racing in Elite!
 
I saw your youtube vid first and immediately installed... I love the idea of the dirt-rally style call-outs real time while in motion (would be awesome for SLF race too I hope). Also I'm sure you will have tons of SRV tracks to contribute with all your years of racing. I didn't realize that feature was still in beta so that tab isn't showing up for me yet, but with sooo many other feature available I plan to learn the rest of the app while the current beta is finishing up. I'm still figuring out how to link it to Voice Attack since I just finally got a gaming headset with a mic to use VA. This is already feeling like a fantastic app, thank you for sharing this info.

Edit - Been planning to take a ride back down to that SRV skate park where you did the Canyon Jump... Was a great meet-up spot, did you notice any 'track style' area's there?
 
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I saw your youtube vid first and immediately installed... I love the idea of the dirt-rally style call-outs real time while in motion (would be awesome for SLF race too I hope). Also I'm sure you will have tons of SRV tracks to contribute with all your years of racing. I didn't realize that feature was still in beta so that tab isn't showing up for me yet, but with sooo many other feature available I plan to learn the rest of the app while the current beta is finishing up. I'm still figuring out how to link it to Voice Attack since I just finally got a gaming headset with a mic to use VA. This is already feeling like a fantastic app, thank you for sharing this info.

Edit - Been planning to take a ride back down to that SRV skate park where you did the Canyon Jump... Was a great meet-up spot, did you notice any 'track style' area's there?
I've got loads of ideas, working on another time trial right now - a beautiful snowy cross-country drive finishing with a circuit round a planetary port, should be a really good one. And yeah, the feature is still in beta but if you want to get stuck in then just hop into the Discord and ask @Razzafrag to give you beta access. There's some good hints and tips for the app in the discord anyway and it's a great place to get answers to any installation or usage questions you might have. See you on the leaderboards Willyum!
 
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Edit - Been planning to take a ride back down to that SRV skate park where you did the Canyon Jump... Was a great meet-up spot, did you notice any 'track style' area's there?
You're going to have to remind me which one you mean ... is it this one?

Source: https://youtu.be/1FeUYLV44r0

No reason I can't make that be a time trial .... hmmm, another idea for @Razzafrag ... it might be interesting to make "bringing the SRV to a complete stop at the end" be an optional condition that we can specify when creating a time trial.
 
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You're going to have to remind me which one you mean ... is it this one?

Source: https://youtu.be/1FeUYLV44r0

No reason I can't make that be a time trial .... hmmm, another idea for @Razzafrag ... it might be interesting to make "bringing the SRV to a complete stop at the end" be an optional condition that we can specify when creating a time trial.
I went there late last night cause I kept thinking about it after I posted. I only made it halfway across the jump... landed in the brown area.
I couldn't remember why I hadn't been there more often until I got into system and saw that it is 250,000 l/s from the main star, luckily it was still on the daylight side, so I had fun. I know there was another place with ramps and stuff but I can't remember where that other place is. I think that one was also part of one of fdev's 'puzzle trips'. I really miss when fdev use to do stuff like this more often.

With the app, I'll just stick to the official release for now. I don't push apps to their limit anymore to be a good beta tester. I still haven't even figured out it's core functionality of linking it to Voice attack lol.
 
I think that would be Fort Asch?

The list of places I need to make time trials for is getting quite long! 😄
This 'would have' been a great entry for the EDCoPilot Time Trials.... But I kept looking at the name of the system in your HUD and thinking to myself... hmm, HIP 22460... I know that name... why do I know that name? lol, This must have been before the war. Last time I was in that system, couldn't survive for more than a couple minutes without Thargoid attack.

The more I'm using EDCoPilot, I'm really starting to enjoy it. Even certain features like the system Chit-chat, I thought I would have turned that off IMMEDIATELY, but it's actually well done with different sounding voices and all... I think I've even heard a few different languages spoken (some of the characters have heavy accents but were speaking english)... But I really liked that cause that is what I would expect to hear in an active solar system with 'open' radio channels, lots of different cultures. I will have to fine tune some of the settings so it's a bit more in the background, but it felt good, like when you are in the star ports and hear them talking about the trash/garbage compactors... it gives the stations life, like it's a real place.

I also liked it telling me how many jumps I had left... letting me know I didn't need to fuel scoop this time cause my next couple systems are also scoopable... and it didn't feel forced, even seems like there was a timer before telling me about the current system, like it was waiting to see if I was just passing through or staying. Only problem I've had so far is scrolling in the window is super slow (one line at a time), but since the info comes back fast, I'm wondering if the slower scroll is a design choice since I believe this app was originally designed to be stable in VR.
 
Only problem I've had so far is scrolling in the window is super slow (one line at a time), but since the info comes back fast, I'm wondering if the slower scroll is a design choice since I believe this app was originally designed to be stable in VR.
One thing you may be suiffering from is that there are settings to refocus Elite: Dangerous on every click and scroll. I'd recommend turning those off unless you're running EDCoPilot on a different screen and really want to ensure Elite: Dangerous is kept focused the whole time so you can continue to control your ship while still interacting with the EDCoPilot window.
 
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One thing you may be suiffering from is that there are settings to refocus Elite: Dangerous on every click and scoll. I'd recommend turning those off unless you're running EDCoPilot on a different screen and really want to ensure Elite: Dangerous is kept focused the whole time so you can continue to control your ship while still interacting with the EDCoPilot window.
Awesome, that was it, scrolling full speed now... I'm often running dual screen so I'm used to clicking back on Elite normally.

I am really looking forward to the upcoming release. I was listening to Lave because I missed the first half of the live show. I heard you mention there is some work going on that may 'possibly' give access to races like Pareco... and my imagination went crazy wondering if a lot of the older Buckyball races could be imported with ongoing leaderboards, instructions to the race, mapping (I believe I saw 1 SRV track with a map in the POI section) and all ... Man, that's 10 years of races. ... I did say 'imagination' cause I know people don't have time to be importing all that stuff, but wow, that would be awesome to be able to read a brief description and just hit the 'play' button and be taken to, and walked through, and compete in a race at any time (maybe the top 10 fan favorites or something (I know there are already a couple 'ongoing' races)) ... Don't get me wrong, I absolutely prefer people participating during the race week as it is... But the Idea that 'new' people could compete in the old races... and the old race winners might have to protect their leaderboard scores from the new-jack's sounds fun... of course there would have to be a column that shows a racers 'highest historic position' post official race week in case they get knocked off podium.... Sorry my head just went a little crazy when I heard about the possible Buckyball inclusion... maybe that could be in another few years if E.D. survives after the Thargoid war lol.
 
Awesome, that was it, scrolling full speed now... I'm often running dual screen so I'm used to clicking back on Elite normally.

I am really looking forward to the upcoming release. I was listening to Lave because I missed the first half of the live show. I heard you mention there is some work going on that may 'possibly' give access to races like Pareco... and my imagination went crazy wondering if a lot of the older Buckyball races could be imported with ongoing leaderboards, instructions to the race, mapping (I believe I saw 1 SRV track with a map in the POI section) and all ... Man, that's 10 years of races. ... I did say 'imagination' cause I know people don't have time to be importing all that stuff, but wow, that would be awesome to be able to read a brief description and just hit the 'play' button and be taken to, and walked through, and compete in a race at any time (maybe the top 10 fan favorites or something (I know there are already a couple 'ongoing' races)) ... Don't get me wrong, I absolutely prefer people participating during the race week as it is... But the Idea that 'new' people could compete in the old races... and the old race winners might have to protect their leaderboard scores from the new-jack's sounds fun... of course there would have to be a column that shows a racers 'highest historic position' post official race week in case they get knocked off podium.... Sorry my head just went a little crazy when I heard about the possible Buckyball inclusion... maybe that could be in another few years if E.D. survives after the Thargoid war lol.
Love this, you totally get it! Yes, I'm thinking exactly the same and razzafrag is up for incorporating additional rules for time trials to support exactly this. Things like maybe verifying the ship build for regulation classes, supporting the idea of cargo that has to be collected, etc, etc. I can easily imagine that a great many past Buckyball races can be migrated to EDCoPilot so people can continue to run them long after the community event has finished. And I agree, this won't be a substitute for our community events which bring people together for week in a social way but it will be a wonderful addition to the world of racing. The only area where I can see real technical difficulties is where races require things like loops around the back of the station because a) there are no coordinates in space (so no way to specify spacial waypoints) and b) because the status.json file (which provides the app with its real time data) is only updated about once per second which is fine for SRV racing but nowhere near fast enough for accurate tracking of ships that are flying at over 500m/s. Funnily enough, if there was one thing I would ask of Frontier in regards to racing it's the option to have a much faster refesh of that file (maybe 10 times faster) so 3rd party app's like this can properly support ship racing. Actually, given that writing to a file that frequently would probably cause performance issues for the game, the ideal solution would be placeable holo gates (as seen in the tutorial) which trigger a status.json update when the player flies through them. We don't need updates every 1/10th of a second, we only need updates at key trigger moments. One example of this is that razzafrag discovered that flashing the headlights triggers an update and utilises this to force a heading update when the racer parks their SRV at the start line. If Frontier supported this then the community could do all the hard work of providing the racing UI (e.g. EDCoPilot's guidance mini-bar),the leaderboard functionality and actually creating tracks.
 
The only area where I can see real technical difficulties is where races require things like loops around the back of the station because a) there are no coordinates in space (so no way to specify spacial waypoints) and b) because the status.json file (which provides the app with its real time data) is only updated about once per second which is fine for SRV racing but nowhere near fast enough for accurate tracking of ships that are flying at over 500m/s.
EDIT - ignore the rest of this post... cause now that I'm thinking about it, doing fast missions probably contributed to how Buckyball got started in the first place...

I don't know the full history of all the races to know if this has already been done... I was starting to look into it at one point and got sidetracked.
So since flying through tunnels and stuff like that can't properly be tracked, maybe there can be alternate actions.... Tunnels require precision flying skills... but so does speeding in a viper to come a full stop to scan a thing within 250 meters and get back out fast. I have never done any of those 'disable the mega-ship', or assassinate a pirate, or even robigo sightseeing tours. I honestly have not done most of the missions in the game neither in ship or on foot.... But it feels like every station I go to seems to have certain 'mission types' that are persistent. So if EDCopilot can't track that you went through a certain tunnel, I'm guessing it would be able to track 'picking up mission to disable megaships in 4 different systems' or something like that.... while carrying cargo with pirates around lol.... Like I said, I haven't done hardly any of those missions myself, so I don't even know if they would be any fun to try to do at high speed... I'm just trying to think of things that already exist that can be tracked and are always available. I know one of the Megaships/facilities has Buckyball Beer Mats that you can steal, I put that on my Bucket-list but haven't stollen any yet.
 
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Thanks @Alec Turner for starting off the thread. Have been meaning to post in here for a while.
Reading the thread and i can see @Willyum-71 has had similar ideas to mine.
Yes i do plan to extend the events that can be timed in a Time Trial. One on my list is "fastest time to leave a station, drop at a Haz Rez, kill a pirate conda, get back to station", for example. And yes, the random gods do have some influence there, but it would be fun trying to beat your previous time.
Tracking missions and commodities collected in a time trial, or carrying cargo is all quite simple to do. EDCoPilot is already "aware" and reacts to these events. Just need to plumb them in as conditions to proceed further in a Time Trial event.
 
@Razzafrag or @Alec Turner
I was gonna just wait for the official release to figure out if this can be done... but since you're here.... (Ship canyon tracks, not like space that doesn't have lat/long)
The Exobiology tools are aware of how far I've traveled from last sample collected whether I'm in a SRV 'Fly'ving' or flying my ship. So there does seem to be some mechanism tracking ship position in air above ground, although the journal entry only occurs 'on touchdown'.
I see that the SRV tracks have a certain circumference that they have to be in to start a race... so I'm guessing you set the radius to 25/50 or so from the lat/long and it provides you with a 50/100 meter starting area (repeated for the additional checkpoints).... Is that a flat circumference or is it spherical? For instance could I 'touch-down' at every turn of a Canyon track for ships or SLF's (creating a lat/long touchdown point in the journal for each turn) and set a radius of 500/1000m, would that be spherical and could that act as a gateway when a ship passes through. (and possibly 2 radius's, with the larger second one being 'out of track limits' or 'cutting corners' for '5 second penalty lost')?
 
@Razzafrag or @Alec Turner
I was gonna just wait for the official release to figure out if this can be done... but since you're here.... (Ship canyon tracks, not like space that doesn't have lat/long)
The Exobiology tools are aware of how far I've traveled from last sample collected whether I'm in a SRV 'Fly'ving' or flying my ship. So there does seem to be some mechanism tracking ship position in air above ground, although the journal entry only occurs 'on touchdown'.
I see that the SRV tracks have a certain circumference that they have to be in to start a race... so I'm guessing you set the radius to 25/50 or so from the lat/long and it provides you with a 50/100 meter starting area (repeated for the additional checkpoints).... Is that a flat circumference or is it spherical? For instance could I 'touch-down' at every turn of a Canyon track for ships or SLF's (creating a lat/long touchdown point in the journal for each turn) and set a radius of 500/1000m, would that be spherical and could that act as a gateway when a ship passes through. (and possibly 2 radius's, with the larger second one being 'out of track limits' or 'cutting corners' for '5 second penalty lost')?
Yes you are correct. In the same folder as your journals look for the file status.json ... when you are on a planet this has the current surface coords in it. This file is updated approx every 1-2 seconds if you move a certain minimum distance, or if you change some of your ship / SRV settings that alters its flags. See the description here: https://elite-journal.readthedocs.io/en/latest/Status File/

Each of the points in the Time Trial route are simply a latitude and longitude, and a user configurable proximity around that point. So in essence it creates a flat circle on the ground centered on the coordinate provided. It isnt spherical, just circular. Imagine a cylinder standing on its end, so even if you flew over it at 500 metres it would still register as being in that "circle". I intend to add some altitude checking / limitations for when i attempt canyon ship flying (and as you say would use a much larger proximity/radius around the waypoint for ships). When EDCoPilot detects you are within the circle, it marks that waypoint complete and sets the target to the next waypoint. There is a Time Trial definition file i have created that you can use to author your own tracks, and i will be publishing an example for users to create, test and publish their own courses, after i put the feature live.

When i get to ship races through canyons, i will be adding a max altitude to the waypoint, so you have to be under that to count as having hit the waypoint. This will help keep the player actually in the canyon and not just flying over the top of it. It would also be good to enforce some low-level skimming over flatter surfaces, eg. keep under 100 metres, maybe give a couple of warnings if you are under, and then disqualify on the third consecutive time they are over the minimum altitude (gives a user time to adjust their error)

I havent put any "out of bounds" functionality in, but am considering it, to tell the player they missed the waypoint, or are going the wrong way ;)
I'm considering making those boundaries as "rectangles" so you can bound a track on all sides, or put "guardrails" to the sides of waypoints. Rectangles are also super-easy to check if your current coord falls within the four limits of the rectangle, so less compute needed.
 
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ignore this one ;)
Voice Attack intergration: From your message, I followed your directions and went to 'EDCoPilot \ docs folder at InstallationInstructions.pdf, steps 2 and 3' Direction were clear and worked smoothly. I replied here with your directions on what to do in case anyone else needed to know where to look... Thank you. However Voice attack is not recognizing all my words so I will have to train the Windows speech recognition, but when I spoke a little slower, what Voice attack did understand correctly, it did transfer the command to EDCopilot correctly.

I also wanted to reply here because I wanted to show you the track I intend to try to map and submit and had a question. I believe this track in the vid (and the 2 other tracks in the picture) are good track for intermediate pilots at about 500m/s... But I spent about 2 hours in this Canyon system with Sanderling from NG and he didn't crash not once in a 900m/s Viper, meanwhile I was at the Rebuy screen every 10 minutes trying to keep up with him. So 'easy' / 'difficult', I'm not sure lol... maybe eventually there might be a rating system accessible only to top 10 leaderboard racers to judge quality of races... I'm saying this with a strong feeling that 'Time Trial' will be very popular and eventually have hundreds of races of all styles to choose from...

So I don't know if I will be able to map a track properly but I will certainly try to contribute (might take a while, I'm not tech Savvy)... The 2 tracks in the pic are a bit more difficult to fly than the one in the Vid, so I'll start with the Video track (a little description of track in the youtube description). I Added my poor attempt in my 870m/s Viper cause I'm not skilled enough to handle that ship yet and I absolutely Loved the response from EDCoPilot when I crashed with the 'Profanity Mode' active.




marked 2.jpg
 
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Just to further explain the thing I was saying about problems with tracking whether of not ships travelling at speed hit waypoints. This is the situation you end up with.

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You've quite clearly flown straight through the waypoint's maximum radius circle but none of the 4 (once per second) updates from status.json show you inside the circle so time trial tracking software will tend not to register that you hit it. The solution for that is to test whether lines drawn between consecutive status.json updates intersect the waypoint circle rather than whether the individual sampling points are inside the circle. That works great until you start turning sharp corners around your waypoint (which of course you typically will since that's how you tend to design these courses (with the waypoints on the corners). At that point this will tend to happen.

ZNVPMh0.png


And then you're back to missing the waypoint again.
 
Just to further explain the thing I was saying about problems with tracking whether of not ships travelling at speed hit waypoints. This is the situation you end up with.

wLUKnaY.png


You've quite clearly flown straight through the waypoint's maximum radius circle but none of the 4 (once per second) updates from status.json show you inside the circle so time trial tracking software will tend not to register that you hit it. The solution for that is to test whether lines drawn between consecutive status.json updates intersect the waypoint circle rather than whether the individual sampling points are inside the circle. That works great until you start turning sharp corners around your waypoint (which of course you typically will since that's how you tend to design these courses (with the waypoints on the corners). At that point this will tend to happen.

ZNVPMh0.png


And then you're back to missing the waypoint again.
I get it... So how about this, if you judge a race can handle 600m/s ships and you set the waypoint 700 or 800 meters in diameter (400m radius)... if the diameter is larger than ship speed per second, I'm thinking one of the points should be captured...
Edit: is there a size limit? if not there could possibly just be set standards, SRV race gets 50m radius, SLF gets 400 m radius and racing ships get 700m radius? I haven't even seen 'Time Trial' yet so I Should just wait to see how it works... I'm excited.
 
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