Patch Notes Update Elite: Dangerous 1.02 change log

[sweetie]

now rare commodities are completely broke.. never updated with a single item in 20 minutes of sitting there....

 

[Agony_Aunt]

So, you're basically saying 'yes, you should go ahead and quit the game because it's not going to get any better', or am I reading this wrong? You actually want us to stay in the smaller ships that we can currently afford and maintain.

I understand English is not the native language of some people around here, but your username indicates you are a native speaker. So, could you have failed to misunderstand what Michael said any more?

Let's break it down for you, bit by bit.

1) There are issues, they are aware of this.
2) Those issues are making trading harder than it should be. ie: Profits are not as good as they should be.
2) They are looking to fix this.

Do you understand now?

Also, if you had read another page or so of posts, you would have found Michael gave a little more info as well.

Really, if you are not going to take the time to read what they write, then it would perhaps be a good idea to refrain from making such negative posts.

Ill also add my own comment to this:

So again I ask, are these higher end ships only for the hardcore/elite people? If so, then yes, you're probably correct - I should quit.

Quitting is up to you, not the decision of FD. However, it has nothing to do with hardcore. If you want to run a big ship, the cost of running that ship is the same if you play 1 hour a month or 12 hours a day. It doesn't matter how hardcore you are. You get out what you put in. Clever traders will make good profits on a run. If you done one run you have the expenses and profit from that run. If you do a hundred then you have expenses and profit from a hundred. If you are loosing more than you are earning, then either there is a game mechanic problem (should be ticketed) or you are doing something wrong (learn)... of course, there is option 3, which is rage and quit.

Your choice batman.

 

[SpaceUK]

Indeed, although there is an issue with the QAI trading that's making the system harder to read than it should be. We're currently looking into this.

Michael

I disagree that it needs to be a lot more lucrative, there are some issues that need to be addressed but playing as a trader is currently viable. I play as a trader myself with a bit of exploration thrown in. Once the background sim is working as it should be we'll review the balance if needed.

Michael

That's fine, but you didn't answer my question on the big ships for elites.

I've only had my Asp for 1 day and already considering selling it, I love the ship, but I just cannot see how I'm ever going to afford to kit it out and maintain from this point. I feel as if I'm being forced back into my Viper, which I probably will do...at least I'll be able to kit it out to the max and have a little fun. Anything larger just doesn't seem viable for me personally.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

now rare commodities are completely broke.. never updated with a single item in 20 minutes of sitting there....

Or working as intended? Do you already have rares of that type in your cargo hold. If so, then that seems to be the latest change, although details are a bit lacking.

 

[dannysquid]

They agreed they don't want us to make money fast.

WOW. Is that realistic?

Makes sense to me. I'm not sure I understand the desire to have everything made really easy!

(Although I'd agree the trading is currently weird and hard to understand.)

 

[Michael Brookes]

Michael,

Me and many others agree on the original rare goods being imbalanced. Filling up an Anaconda with 240t of rare goods, yielding a potential profit of almost 20K credits per ton, at one single station every ten minutes was just not right.

But for many people, including me, rare goods trading was the ONLY reason to ever travel the galaxy. The pre-patch-1.2 situation was that it took quite some time to fill up a ship's hold (even a medium sized ship like my Cobra) and many ppl spent that waiting time doing missions and short range trading in the systems around the source of rare-goods.

In the current situation we can't even fill up a hauler with rare goods, no matter how long we wait or do missions or do short range trading. There is absolutely NO incentive to fly far in any other role than pure exploring. Also, unless you're gonna stick to a small trade route with maybe 10 systems max (and that's only manageable with help of third party trade tools!) there is NO way buying a large ship is viable. Noone's gonna haul 100+ tonnes of tea (or insert any other commodity that's readily available) across any distance larger than necessary (ever seen the cost to refuel a large ship?)

Could you PLEASE elaborate on what role rare goods are supposed to play according to FD? Is this really working as intended?

Rare goods are intended to be a low volume, high yield good that needs to be transported over a distance. For small ships you can fill the hold with a few tons and make speed run. For larger ships you supplement normal trade goods with rare items or do large loops, picking up small quantities along the way but carrying a variety.

Michael

 

[Khushrenada]

You have 76 in your cargo. More won't show up in station for you until you get rid of them.

can someone clarify this? were the trade mechanics changed that if you have type A cargo in your hold, the market doesnt "spawn" new cargo of this type????
especially valid for rare commodities...

if the mechanics have changed that much, a little info on that would be nice

 

[Michael Brookes]

That's fine, but you didn't answer my question on the big ships for elites.

I've only had my Asp for 1 day and already considering selling it, I love the ship, but I just cannot see how I'm ever going to afford to kit it out and maintain from this point. I feel as if I'm being forced back into my Viper, which I probably will do...at least I'll be able to kit it out to the max and have a little fun. Anything larger just doesn't seem viable for me personally.

If the ship isn't viable for your play style then don't use it.

Michael

 

[Ericlas]

I have tested a Python taking different missions, playing about 2-4 hours per day. I had no problems making 6-7M Cr of pure profit taking into account that my ship was in top condition, all maintenance repairs were performed when required.

Which kind of missions did you do and when?
The only VIABLE missions, i find to carry out with my Python are the 150k+ assassination missions.
Hauling / courier missions (10-50k) are in no way going to get this amount of money, in the timeframe you described.
I must be playing this wrong or missing a vital part of mission-gameplay here.

 

[Michael Brookes]

can someone clarify this? were the trade mechanics changed that if you have type A cargo in your hold, the market doesnt "spawn" new cargo of this type????
especially valid for rare commodities...

if the mechanics have changed that much, a little info on that would be nice

No more than your quota for each rare will be generated.

Michael

 

[Amorelia]

- After yet another discussion with the rare commodity producers, Commanders should now be eligible to only purchase rare goods up to their own personal allocation, instead of buying everybody else's ration as well.

What "personal allocation"? There is no logic to this decision. Producers do not - that is, they do NOT - give a "personal allocation" in any real-world scenario. The only "personal allocation" is with pre-orders, and we have none of that in ED. In a market-economy, supply and demand means that they increase prices when demand goes up, and whoever is first in the line willing to pay the Ask gets the goods.

If it's not broke, don't fix it. IMO you have just broken it. If you want to prohibit people making good profits and so prolong their time between upgrades etc., just be honest about it.

 

[Jack Crow]

Just adding in my 2 cents here- I'm seriously disappointed to see this change regarding rare goods. I just discovered this as a means to start making some good profits in my Cobra and begin making some real progress towards the many upgrades that are available. The higher end ships still seem a really long way off and I don't feel like having to wait for an hour or so hopping around a few clustered stations stocking up rares before making a long distance journey was a terrible way to play. Now I just don't see the point of it, and I'm back to other less profitable ways of going forward. It feels like the only way to move forward in this game is through boring, painful grinding.. I was having a lot of fun making that long risky journey, exploring new systems, avoiding interdictions, getting nearly roasted by the sun with some fuel scooping.

Maybe they could at least require you to leave the system and come back to get a restock, and cluster more of the rare goods systems near to each other? At least then you avoid people camping out and doing AFK trading.

I agree with this 100%

 

[corvinus]

"Asked if that meant the company were looking at subscription or microtransaction models for the Kickstarter-funded project when it releases in 2014, Braben replied:

“We’re not considering subscriptions. I don’t think that would work well. We are looking at things where you can purchase time with cash. We’ve got to think in terms of making sure the backend is funded, essentially."

http://archive.beefjack.com/index.html?p=155940.html

So there is a financial reason to make everyone a grindwhore. Just like every other MMO except without player interaction.

 

[vjek]

I disagree that it needs to be a lot more lucrative, there are some issues that need to be addressed but playing as a trader is currently viable. I play as a trader myself with a bit of exploration thrown in. Once the background sim is working as it should be we'll review the balance if needed.

Michael

As I'm sure you can do the math as well as any of us, I think a little clarification is in order.

In Gamma 2, with no AI trading, it was possible to find 1000CR profit-per-ton that lasted for ~12 hours, with appropriate HIGH demand and HIGH supply. It wasn't super rare, but it wasn't normal. If you took a few hours, you could find it, then profit from that route for a full day, at least.

Now, that same number has dropped to 700CR profit-per-ton, and it lasts for about an hour before it's down to under 500CR profit-per-ton.

Given the absolutely staggering ship, upgrade/outfitting costs, are you absolutely certain that you "disagree that it needs to be a lot more lucrative"?

At 500CR profit-per-ton, and a 30 minute trip time (round trip, 15 each way) that leads a average casual player to 50,000 credits per trip of profit, or 100K CR profit per hour. That means 174 hours of running 100T trips in a Type6 before a player could afford a base Python.

At 1 hour per day, that's 5 months 24 days to progress from a Type 6 to a Python.

That's the current design goal?

 

[SpaceUK]

I understand English is not the native language of some people around here, but your username indicates you are a native speaker. So, could you have failed to misunderstand what Michael said any more?

Let's break it down for you, bit by bit.

1) There are issues, they are aware of this.
2) Those issues are making trading harder than it should be. ie: Profits are not as good as they should be.
2) They are looking to fix this.

Do you understand now?

Also, if you had read another page or so of posts, you would have found Michael gave a little more info as well.

Really, if you are not going to take the time to read what they write, then it would perhaps be a good idea to refrain from making such negative posts.

Ill also add my own comment to this:



Quitting is up to you, not the decision of FD. However, it has nothing to do with hardcore. If you want to run a big ship, the cost of running that ship is the same if you play 1 hour a month or 12 hours a day. It doesn't matter how hardcore you are. You get out what you put in. Clever traders will make good profits on a run. If you done one run you have the expenses and profit from that run. If you do a hundred then you have expenses and profit from a hundred. If you are loosing more than you are earning, then either there is a game mechanic problem (should be ticketed) or you are doing something wrong (learn)... of course, there is option 3, which is rage and quit.

Your choice batman.

I understood perfectly fine. What you misunderstand is his reply to me by proxy was through another quoted poster, and since my original post wasn't included, I didn't bother to include it either. But it did indeed sound like he was saying that I probably should quit because trading wont get significantly better. So thank you, but the lesson in reading comprehension was unnecessary.

 

[xenoclast]

I have tested a Python taking different missions, playing about 2-4 hours per day. I had no problems making 6-7M Cr of pure profit taking into account that my ship was in top condition, all maintenance repairs were performed when required.

So, in summary "If you want to make this game equivalent to a part time job you don't get paid for, then yes you can have these things". That's MMO's in a nutshell.

 

[Amorelia]

Rare goods are intended to be a low volume, high yield good that needs to be transported over a distance. For small ships you can fill the hold with a few tons and make speed run. For larger ships you supplement normal trade goods with rare items or do large loops, picking up small quantities along the way but carrying a variety.

Why do you care how anyone else wants to trade? If you want to "supplement normal trade goods with rare items ... carrying a variety", that's up to you and I've no problem with it. But I don't really appreciate you foisting that expectation onto everyone else who's paid to trade how they like. If I want to sit in a station for a few days stocking up with a certain type of good, why do you care?

Please reconsider this decision to force others to trade "my way or the highway".

 

[CmdrKull]

No more than your quota for each rare will be generated.

Michael

Answer appreciated. One quick question: why wasn't this change called out in the change log? Even other purely server-side changes are often mentioned, yet this one was left to be discovered.

For the record, it seems like the right choice, and 70 tons @20k each isn't chump change.

 

[Ericlas]

If the ship isn't viable for your play style then don't use it.

Michael

Rare goods are intended to be a low volume, high yield good that needs to be transported over a distance. For small ships you can fill the hold with a few tons and make speed run. For larger ships you supplement normal trade goods with rare items or do large loops, picking up small quantities along the way but carrying a variety.

Michael

No go play your own style of trading traders...

I'm sorry Mike, but i was with you all the time, through all the balancing and tweaks.
But I just can't follow this idea. People were ok with the rare-goods in the release version, as we all agreed they were too overpowered before.
But limiting a good, depending on how much someone already has is just not logical at all.
I believe you are well aware of all the arguments brought by the trading faction, so i don't go over them again.
And you know as well, what effort is needed to find some good profitable trade routes, suggesting to do that on the fly on a rare trading trip...
I think i need a break from the game after all.

 

[CmdrKull]

Why do you care how anyone else wants to trade? If you want to "supplement normal trade goods with rare items ... carrying a variety", that's up to you and I've no problem with it. But I don't really appreciate you foisting that expectation onto everyone else who's paid to trade how they like. If I want to sit in a station for a few days stocking up with a certain type of good, why do you care?

Please reconsider this decision to force others to trade "my way or the highway".

The most likely outcome of all of this is "patch notes: rare goods removed from the commodities screen. This wasn't how we intended trade to work." Which is a real shame for guys in sidewinders and Haulers just beginning this very long-term game. Let's give it a rest, eh?