Elite Dangerous 2 on Unreal Engine 5

[JohnRoberts]

but some of the stuff I read is ridiculous.

Very much agree with everything said here. Elite is not a simulation the entire galaxy - it's a simulator set in the entire galaxy, and most of it is pre-calculated smoke and mirrors. Its very clever smoke and mirrors, but the pre-calculation part means ... its not done in the game engine. The game engine just needs to render it nicely, and UE5 is very capable in that regard.

(But again, this is not to say Elite should or will be ported to UE5, only that it most probably could be).

 

[Northpin]

With major studios embracing the novelty, how long until Frontier Developments do the same as CDProjectRED and switch their own home-brewed Engine to adopt UE5... additional kudos points if FD goes the extra mile and sign up for development support from Epic during this migration as CDProjectRED did!

I really hope you dont compare CDPR games to ED.
Or any other game launched by a major studio to ED.

There is no other game on the market like ED.
NMS might come close, but it's too cartoonish and too Spore-ish for my taste. And no, they're not using UE
Star Citizen is not using it either.

Basically i dont know of any game that have fully generated planets using UE
Not even maps comparable to small sized countries like tens of thousands of square kilometers... IIRC Witcher 4 map size will be below 200 sq.km

So i dont really think a game with the scope of Elite can be done using UE.
Not to mention that i dont ever see FDev paying royalties for using UE when all their games are produces using the in-house built Cobra engine - which is continuously developed and improved.
For example JWE2, a dx12 game, recently got Nvidia's DLAA implemented

 

[GreySix]

Someone should point CIG at it then.

Yeah ... no thanks. That would add yet another decade to development, along with Chris Roberts' perpetual GFIs he shoves down the throats of his hapless staff.

 

[fennster]

IIRC Witcher 4 map size will be below 200 sq.km

Of hand crafted assets.

 

[babelfisch]

Look, I also think UE5 would be inadequate for ED, at least not without some serious rework, but some of the stuff I read is ridiculous.

That's not super hard to do. Planets in Elite are on rails. Most of it is calculated by the stellar forge to being with.

The problem is that we are using very large numbers which leads to inaccuracies in most engines.

Wouldn't be too hard to get more than Odyssey
Most of them follow the same pattern, with only a handful being actually rather unique.

Building in EDO are also hand placed (the settlements and PoI are pre made, then randomly placed in the game). Ironically, vegetation in EDO also look like someone used a big brush to put some spot here and there.

Actually no, it doesn't. None of that ever happen in game. Sure, we get some pre generated "fumarole" assets here and there and "volcano looking" hill on some world, but there is no tectonic or anything else. And atmo doesn't do anything, for flight or otherwise. It's just a fun bit of trivia and a pretty skybox. Also change what kind of plant (all pre made) are in the game world, if any.
Unless you ever saw an earthquake (planetquake ?) or an active volcano (not a premade asset randomly dropped on a world), then no, there is no tectonic.
This is all stellar forge, which essentially pre generate a fixed universe (with the exception of celestial body orbits/rotation).

Stellar forge would likely work with any engine it's attached to, it's "just" a proc gen engine.

Regarding the rest, I don't say that anything is impossible. My point is that you would need to add all that stuff to your UE5 port because it isn't supported by the engine natively. And at that point your game might be just as buggy and broken as Elite.

PS
Have fun:

Generating The Universe in Elite: Dangerous

Doc Ross from Frontier Developments talked about the way he helped to create the amazing universe of Elite.

80.lv

 

[babelfisch]

So does anyone know if UE5 supports double precision? Because if not it might get tricky.

 

[JohnRoberts]

The problem is that we are using very large numbers which leads to inaccuracies in most engines.

UE5 now supports what they call "Large World Coordinate System", which basically means 64 bit double precision floats. But again, you are free to do things as you want.

 

[babelfisch]

UE5 now supports what they call "Large World Coordinate System", which basically means 64 bit double precision floats. But again, you are free to do things as you want.

Thanks, I guess that means we could see a nice space game on UE5. I still doubt that it would make much sense to port ED to UE5 though...

 

[JohnRoberts]

Thanks, I guess that means we could see a nice space game on UE5. I still doubt that it would make much sense to port ED to UE5 though...

That is exactly what I have been saying: UE5 could do it. FDev probably shouldn't switch.

And as I also said before, UE5 could bring ambitious space games into the reach of smaller teams, so lets all hope it does, becuase, boy, does these genre need some competition.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

It eludes me how just another uninspiried grindy space looter-shooter designed by FD would be better with Unreal. It's the gfx, right? Because everything is better with enough gfx, even the last jank.

 

[JohnRoberts]

It eludes me how just another uninspiried grindy space looter-shooter designed by FD would be better with Unreal. It's the gfx, right? Because everything is better with enough gfx, even the last jank.

Never mind the quality, feel the Cobra. (?)

 

[babelfisch]

That is exactly what I have been saying: UE5 could do it. FDev probably shouldn't switch.

And as I also said before, UE5 could bring ambitious space games into the reach of smaller teams, so lets all hope it does, becuase, boy, does these genre need some competition.

Yes, that's why I liked your post.

Some people in this thread seem to think that porting Elite to UE5 would be as simple as flicking a switch and that it wouldn't lead to all sorts of bugs, issues and problems.

 

[Erei]

Yes, that's why I liked your post.

Some people in this thread seem to think that porting Elite to UE5 would be as simple as flicking a switch and that it wouldn't lead to all sorts of bugs, issues and problems.

I don't think this thread was serious to begin with.
But yeah, I always have a laugh when I read "why don't we just change the engine ?". Generally to the currently hyped engine thanks to the engine company strong marketing presence with nice benchmark videos you'll probably never see in a game.

 

[babelfisch]

I don't think this thread was serious to begin with.
But yeah, I always have a laugh when I read "why don't we just change the engine ?". Generally to the currently hyped engine thanks to the engine company strong marketing presence with nice benchmark videos you'll probably never see in a game.

We are approaching a point where games look as good as the UE3 Samaritan tech demo 11 years ago...

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgS67BwPfFY

 

[varonica]

Actually no, it doesn't. None of that ever happen in game.

The composition of planets is generated by the stellar forge during the galaxy evolution simulation that builds out the galaxy and solar systems from first principals, this data is passed on to the planetary generation algorithms. Geology is generated based on the underlying data for the planet and gravitational and other effects, this is why you will find planets in close orbit around a gas giant, or a close binary pair will be geologically active while identical planets further away from the GG aren't. There's a lot that goes into making the planets for Elite Dangerous, stuff is not actually not just plonked on the ground any old how.

 

[Erei]

The composition of planets is generated by the stellar forge during the galaxy evolution simulation that builds out the galaxy and solar systems from first principals, this data is passed on to the planetary generation algorithms. Geology is generated based on the underlying data for the planet and gravitational and other effects, this is why you will find planets in close orbit around a gas giant, or a close binary pair will be geologically active while identical planets further away from the GG aren't. There's a lot that goes into making the planets for Elite Dangerous, stuff is not actually not just plonked on the ground any old how.

Yes, and as I said, once done it's done. Have you ever seen a meteorite impact happens ? An earthquake ? Volcano activity (outside of the pre made asset semi randomly scattered on a world, that will always erupt) ?

I'm going to take little risk and say you never did. That's because the engine you play with doesn't do that. The stellar forge did all that, but once it's done, it's done. It will never change. Well, unless they re-do the planet gen, but you get the idea^^

Not saying it's bad or unexpected, but just saying that's a completely different thing than the engine we use to play.

 

[babelfisch]

This game is going to run on UE5:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAFW6Pkx-N4


I think it looks quite bad. Well not vomit inducing bad, but not "this needs to happen now!!!" good either. Meh.

It's just ported from UE4 to UE5, so other UE5 games will look better. Not ED though.

 

[varonica]

Yes, and as I said, once done it's done. Have you ever seen a meteorite impact happens ? An earthquake ? Volcano activity (outside of the pre made asset semi randomly scattered on a world, that will always erupt) ?

But that's the point though, the galaxy is the setting, not the game, time doesn't pass for the galaxy itself, it's like a building in other games, you build it and use it to set the game in. I think having time pass in the galaxy would cause issues that even most supercomputers wouldn't be able to handle because one side of the galaxy would be tens of thousands of years behind the other side.

 

[Erei]

But that's the point though, the galaxy is the setting, not the game, time doesn't pass for the galaxy itself, it's like a building in other games, you build it and use it to set the game in. I think having time pass in the galaxy would cause issues that even most supercomputers wouldn't be able to handle because one side of the galaxy would be tens of thousands of years behind the other side.

We are talking game engine. Stellar forge is not the game engine, the game engine is Cobra, which is unable to do all the stuff the Stellar forge can do. On the other hand, you could link any engine to the stellar forge, and you would have the same stuff like volcanism and whatnot.
This is similar to physic engine, which are often separate (like the famous havok physic engine, which was used in many different games).

 

[babelfisch]

Yes, and as I said, once done it's done. Have you ever seen a meteorite impact happens ? An earthquake ? Volcano activity (outside of the pre made asset semi randomly scattered on a world, that will always erupt) ?

I'm going to take little risk and say you never did. That's because the engine you play with doesn't do that. The stellar forge did all that, but once it's done, it's done. It will never change. Well, unless they re-do the planet gen, but you get the idea^^

Not saying it's bad or unexpected, but just saying that's a completely different thing than the engine we use to play.

Stellar Forge is part of the Cobra Engine though, you can't just "connect" Stellar Forge to UE5 and display the same things. And yes, I know that you know it, I am just stating the obvious because it makes it easier to tell you what I mean, English isn't my first language after all...
Obviously something similar - or a major rewrite - to Stellar Forge could be used with a different Engine, but having a planet in Elite Dangerous is more complex than showing a single (1000 km radius) planet in UE5 (which is what my original comment was about). I would gladly forget about that discussion, but since you called it ridiculous I need to annoy you a little bit.