Elite:Dangerous for Linux?

I'd have thrown cash at the Kickstarter if targeting Linux had been on the cards then. Alas, there was only Mac - and that was only a stretch goal, meaning that even if it were useful to me there would have been a real risk of funding something that didn't reach the stretch goal.

I like to buy products that are available on my platform, and I'd buy the heck out of this if it were available. For now, I'm playing Euro Truck Simulator 2 and X3, including all the tasty DLC I can grab. Frontier really should try to divert some of my disposable income towards themselves, because right now it's going to Valve and to software houses that support Linux.
 
And yet games used to be released with both a win and linux version to them. There are more 'nix users today then at that time.
The cost argument falls flat when you take into consideration things like early access fess, kickstarter, etc.

Umm. When?

Back in the day there was Loki doing ports of older games to Linux. I can't think of any games that got simultaneous Win & Linux releases.

Also cost does come into it because FD have burnt through the Kickstarter funds.
 
Umm. When?

Back in the day there was Loki doing ports of older games to Linux. I can't think of any games that got simultaneous Win & Linux releases.

Also cost does come into it because FD have burnt through the Kickstarter funds.

I think reading all information FD are mostly worried about running support costs for Linux. For that, SteamOS is a match for them - if they ever decide to bite the bullet and do that.

SteamOS is also good because Valve have said they won't force everyone to use Steam. It will be just a reference platform to develop against. You will be expect certain level of OpenGL support there. You will be able to expect certain support for HOTAS and joysticks there.

So for me personally ED on Linux is a long game - I don't expect it to tarrive sooner than in a year's time (if ever).
 
I think reading all information FD are mostly worried about running support costs for Linux. For that, SteamOS is a match for them - if they ever decide to bite the bullet and do that.

SteamOS is also good because Valve have said they won't force everyone to use Steam. It will be just a reference platform to develop against. You will be expect certain level of OpenGL support there. You will be able to expect certain support for HOTAS and joysticks there.

So for me personally ED on Linux is a long game - I don't expect it to tarrive sooner than in a year's time (if ever).


I feel like a broken record...

As for support, I can understand from a business perspective why they'd be concerned about linux support costs, but if they're truely purely business people who only care about profit, then won't they be pleasantly surprised when they discover just how active us Linux players would be supporting each other instead of pestering them, and just how succinct their bug reports from the linux community will be!

This extends to installing Elite: Dangerous on new distros and feeding input back to FD on how to make their release easier to upgrade and distribute in the future (assuming they don't go the Steam(-only) route.) Hell, I'm sure they could find ways to lower material support costs further by simply working out getting resources from Valve to help them! That is something they could prepare for now, with the Windows and Mac versions in Steam, and leverage that experience if (and sadly not when) they release a Linux version on Steam.

Of course, if they don't partner with Valve, that doesn't matter much either, as it remains that they don't need to target more than one contemporary linux distro, and the players themselves will generate all the self-support we need to shoehorn it into other distros.

It's a mistake to believe being on only one Linux distro or another has you Locked In(tm) to that distro, as would be the case between commercially generated OSes. Linux is a movement, it's not a product. RedHat and SuSE and Canonical could catch fire and burn to the ground today, and ALL of linux's code (and all those distros) will still be out there, free as you or I (unless you're reading this from an oppressive regime, i guess) to continue being hacked on.

The bottom line is, many people misunderstand this, and will call me mistaken, but the fact is, if it works on one Linux distro, it (can be made to) works on all the rest of them (within the same CPU architecture). BECAUSE it's an open platform, any contemporary distro uses all the libraries and programs from all the OTHER distributions, with no thought to Profit Motive(tm) because, again, Linux is a movement -before- it's a product.

And, again, for those that will certainly jump on my case for saying "if it works on one (x86_64) linux distro, then it works on all (x86_64) linux distros", I point you, yes, to the Steam client. Valve -only- packages it for Ubuntu, and nobody has the source code to Steam BUT Valve.. So why can I install it on every other contemporary distro, and in many cases from other distro's native repositories? For example, i have Steam installed on Debian and Fedora.. HOW DAT WORK?!

Lord knows Mac support is going to be expensive enough for FD! Mac users by and large are Customers(tm), not hackers, and have no access to their underlying OS (well, moreso than windozers, but few and far between are Mac users who know what launchd is or what Terminal.app is for), and will come crying to mommy when something's not working right. Not having experience with Linux gamers and the perception that Linux Is Hard(tm) (thought it's not), I can understand why people (inside and out of FD) would imagine it would be the same or worse to support a Linux port.

This is why I've said before; I'm hoping FD isn't too turned off by the drastically smaller slice of money pie and comparably large support load which will come from a Macintosh port. If they're discouraged by the ratio of money to headache that Mac players bring them, they may make the misguided assumption that Linux0rz will some how be as bad or worse! And the Mac community isn't exactly a cohesive beast, I can't just say "don't mess it up for everyone else!", because there's no point. Mac users only have corporate recourses to solve problems, it gives people a tunnel vision Linux users don't have.

TL;DR - My point is, Valve didn't package Steam for Debian and Fedora (and Arch, and Mint, and SuSE, and CentOS, and the myraid of other distros steam is on), Valve packages Steam for Ubuntu. The COMMUNITY of GAMERS packages AND MAINTAINS Steam for the rest of the distros, and they do it without Steam's source code, without complicated binary relinking, without money, or anything else out of Valve. Going back INTO Valve, however is well written, well discussed, community led issue resolution and well hashed bug reports.

With Elite: Dangerous for Linux, Frontier could profit from this support model the same way.
 
Last edited:
linux support is and will for the forseeable future be a chicken or the egg problem. Small gamer market so few games developed for it, since few games are available there is only a small gamer userbase.

The way to get beyond that is to avoid developing the game in api's (directx) that lock you to one platform to begin with. It becomes a much smaller thing to ask when porting if you dont have to support completely separate graphic api's simultaneously. If it was coded with cross-platform in mind properly, we probably wouldn't need this thread and the mac port wouldn't be such a big deal.
 
linux support is and will for the forseeable future be a chicken or the egg problem. Small gamer market so few games developed for it, since few games are available there is only a small gamer userbase.

The way to get beyond that is to avoid developing the game in api's (directx) that lock you to one platform to begin with. It becomes a much smaller thing to ask when porting if you dont have to support completely separate graphic api's simultaneously. If it was coded with cross-platform in mind properly, we probably wouldn't need this thread and the mac port wouldn't be such a big deal.
Sorry, but i thought Linux users were a well read bunch? https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2920&page=38&p=1793029&viewfull=1#post1793029
 
1. Linux runs things a faster on a simple scale machine.
2. Windows takes too much resources.
3. Windows wear down pc faster.
4. Windows is vulnerable to attacks.
5. Specifically Ubuntu have been around many years upgrade still running and available.
6. Unfortunately with windows MS have shut down dual installation.
 
1. Linux runs things a faster on a simple scale machine.
2. Windows takes too much resources.
3. Windows wear down pc faster.
4. Windows is vulnerable to attacks.
5. Specifically Ubuntu have been around many years upgrade still running and available.
6. Unfortunately with windows MS have shut down dual installation.

1. ?
2. Debatable. Depends on what resources you have.
3. Ummm. How you can quantify that I don't know. I have had Windows XP running continuously for 13 years now. In that time it has gone through two CPU fans.
4. And so is Linux. As soon as Linux gains a large enough user base Linux will become more of a target.
5. Microsoft supported XP for 14 years.
6. That I haven't tried as I run VM in HyperV.
 
I feel like a broken record...



This extends to installing Elite: Dangerous on new distros and feeding input back to FD on how to make their release easier to upgrade and distribute in the future (assuming they don't go the Steam(-only) route.) Hell, I'm sure they could find ways to lower material support costs further by simply working out getting resources from Valve to help them! That is something they could prepare for now, with the Windows and Mac versions in Steam, and leverage that experience if (and sadly not when) they release a Linux version on Steam.

Of course, if they don't partner with Valve, that doesn't matter much either, as it remains that they don't need to target more than one contemporary linux distro, and the players themselves will generate all the self-support we need to shoehorn it into other distros.

It's a mistake to believe being on only one Linux distro or another has you Locked In(tm) to that distro, as would be the case between commercially generated OSes. Linux is a movement, it's not a product. RedHat and SuSE and Canonical could catch fire and burn to the ground today, and ALL of linux's code (and all those distros) will still be out there, free as you or I (unless you're reading this from an oppressive regime, i guess) to continue being hacked on.

The bottom line is, many people misunderstand this, and will call me mistaken, but the fact is, if it works on one Linux distro, it (can be made to) works on all the rest of them (within the same CPU architecture). BECAUSE it's an open platform, any contemporary distro uses all the libraries and programs from all the OTHER distributions, with no thought to Profit Motive(tm) because, again, Linux is a movement -before- it's a product.

And, again, for those that will certainly jump on my case for saying "if it works on one (x86_64) linux distro, then it works on all (x86_64) linux distros", I point you, yes, to the Steam client. Valve -only- packages it for Ubuntu, and nobody has the source code to Steam BUT Valve.. So why can I install it on every other contemporary distro, and in many cases from other distro's native repositories? For example, i have Steam installed on Debian and Fedora.. HOW DAT WORK?!

Lord knows Mac support is going to be expensive enough for FD! Mac users by and large are Customers(tm), not hackers, and have no access to their underlying OS (well, moreso than windozers, but few and far between are Mac users who know what launchd is or what Terminal.app is for), and will come crying to mommy when something's not working right. Not having experience with Linux gamers and the perception that Linux Is Hard(tm) (thought it's not), I can understand why people (inside and out of FD) would imagine it would be the same or worse to support a Linux port.

This is why I've said before; I'm hoping FD isn't too turned off by the drastically smaller slice of money pie and comparably large support load which will come from a Macintosh port. If they're discouraged by the ratio of money to headache that Mac players bring them, they may make the misguided assumption that Linux0rz will some how be as bad or worse! And the Mac community isn't exactly a cohesive beast, I can't just say "don't mess it up for everyone else!", because there's no point. Mac users only have corporate recourses to solve problems, it gives people a tunnel vision Linux users don't have.

TL;DR - My point is, Valve didn't package Steam for Debian and Fedora (and Arch, and Mint, and SuSE, and CentOS, and the myraid of other distros steam is on), Valve packages Steam for Ubuntu. The COMMUNITY of GAMERS packages AND MAINTAINS Steam for the rest of the distros, and they do it without Steam's source code, without complicated binary relinking, without money, or anything else out of Valve. Going back INTO Valve, however is well written, well discussed, community led issue resolution and well hashed bug reports.

With Elite: Dangerous for Linux, Frontier could profit from this support model the same way.

Well said friend, I use arch and steam works great thanks to the packers and maintainers.
I supported the game on kickstarter on the premise of a Linux release, hence I paid for the game already and can not play it.
By the way I supported more than 100 games on kickstarter when most of them got a Linux version out of the gate.
And right now my steam library consists of 470 games out of 1364 that I own.
So anyone that says FUD about gaming on Linux is a <insert bad language here>.
 
Just chiming in here to say that I too am waiting for Linux support so I can finally play my £45 game (putting the amount there to show I care about Elite, not to complain).
 
Not very directly tied to ED Linux port potential, but HTC just announced that they are guys developing VR setup, released at the end of this year, for ValveVR. Highly likely it will support SteamOS too. By specs it's equal to OR theoretically planned CV1 (most likely announced very soon too). Two things - it would be nice for ED to support this device (i am ready to bet it is not so hard to do). But it also could bring some additional initiative for supporting SteamOS. We will see. Link here http://www.theverge.com/2015/3/1/8127445/htc-vive-valve-vr-headset
 
Last edited:
1. Linux runs things a faster on a simple scale machine.
2. Windows takes too much resources.
3. Windows wear down pc faster.
4. Windows is vulnerable to attacks.
5. Specifically Ubuntu have been around many years upgrade still running and available.
6. Unfortunately with windows MS have shut down dual installation.

1: ...but lacks support from gaming-studios and driver-manufacturers.
2: Don't run Windows on a toaster.
3: No, not at all. And if you mean that Windows will destroy hardware: learn to build a properly cooled computer.
4: So is Mac, and so is Linux. The only reason why there are more vulnerabilities found in Windows is because it has a market-share that's far, far above what Mac and Linux has.
5: And so has both Windows and Mac.
6: Depends on what you mean with dual-installation. Dualboot between different OS'es is still quite possible, unless something has changed in the past year or so.

That being said, I'd still like to see a Linux-client for ED. Why? Hell, why not? Linux is a good platform for gaming IF one is willing to deal with the fiddlyness of things.
 
1: ...but lacks support from gaming-studios and driver-manufacturers.

Not true anymore.

2: Don't run Windows on a toaster.

Still you can agree that Microsoft have issues with optimizing some of latest Windows releases. It has been so much problem recently though.

4: So is Mac, and so is Linux. The only reason why there are more vulnerabilities found in Windows is because it has a market-share that's far, far above what Mac and Linux has.

Not exactly true, but to the point - OS X and iOS was two top operational systems with most issues. Still, Microsoft allows pretty dangerous exploits to roam around unfixed for quite some time. I can run Linux without antivirus, but with proper sandbox software installed by default (AppArmor). I still don't risk that doing it with Windows.

5: And so has both Windows and Mac.

Windows 7 support was dropped as hot potato. Mac OS X version support is patchy at best. I don't say Linux don't have support issues (LTS releases are there, but don't have hottest software available), but overall support is just easier to do on Linux.

6: Depends on what you mean with dual-installation. Dualboot between different OS'es is still quite possible, unless something has changed in the past year or so.

That being said, I'd still like to see a Linux-client for ED. Why? Hell, why not? Linux is a good platform for gaming IF one is willing to deal with the fiddlyness of things.

And that's major fallacy of your post - LSB is a thing for 8 years, and standardization is a king on Linux platforms. (Config? /etc. Libs? /usr/lib. Sound? Either ALSA or PulseAudio, heck, you can stick just with PA, as 100% of modern Linux desktop support it). It is not exactly strange woodoo process anymore, it has been set in stone for years. OpenGL? Mesa or two binary drivers from either AMD or Nvidia. You have to admit, no real difference here.

What has been issues however are small quirks between distros...you can deal with them easily, but for some devs it might be a bit of needless crunch. But that's why there's Steam, and SteamOS. It's standardized piece of Linux distribution, meant for running games.
 
I think E:D should make a Linux port.
In the end, they even went so far as to port it to the Eggsbox.

I wonder time and again why game developers are so insisting that end users have Windows OS just for gaming because of them. it is as if they get paid by MS to do that.
Same for single screen and 32bit.

Meanwhile, the rest of the software industry has been developing cross-plattform and native for decades. And even my browser works on all screens.
 
I think E:D should make a Linux port.
In the end, they even went so far as to port it to the Eggsbox.
They have already laid the ground work for the Xbox by writing other games for it so the cost is negligible.

I wonder time and again why game developers are so insisting that end users have Windows OS just for gaming because of them. it is as if they get paid by MS to do that.
Same for single screen and 32bit.
Microsoft spent millions on laying the ground work by writing DirectX. Since most people run Windows in make business sense to target Windows first.

Meanwhile, the rest of the software industry has been developing cross-plattform and native for decades. And even my browser works on all screens.

I can't see the point you are trying to make. Are you trying to compare browser to a game? Do you remember pre-2004 and trying to get a unified experience across browsers?
 
They have already laid the ground work for the Xbox by writing other games for it so the cost is negligible.

Still, it's a bit senseless.

Microsoft spent millions on laying the ground work by writing DirectX. Since most people run Windows in make business sense to target Windows first.

So what? DirectX is only one of the competing frameworks. If you code properly, then porting is not an issue. Or even running native code (which E:D doesn't even do on windows).

I can't see the point you are trying to make. Are you trying to compare browser to a game? Do you remember pre-2004 and trying to get a unified experience across browsers?

A browser is a simple example of a piece of software that runs:
1. independent from the OS
2. native to the system's architecture
3. can make use of all available screens

The point ist:
If E:D is making an effort to cater to systems other than windows, then it should at least target the popular operating systems and allow the users more freedom, before thinking of moving to exotic devices like an Eggsbox.

Plus: The gaming industry should finally wake up and catch up with the rest of the software and hardware industry. Wouldn't hurt to have more projects like SC that show a bit of technical ambition.
 
Still, it's a bit senseless.

Why is it so? FD are a business, they have shareholders.

So what? DirectX is only one of the competing frameworks. If you code properly, then porting is not an issue. Or even running native code (which E:D doesn't even do on windows).

ED does run natively. The launcher does not. You will always have discrepancies between architectures. Frontier have their own abstraction layer allowing them to write 1 code base for multiple architectures. To create a new target they have to write a concrete implementation.

A browser is a simple example of a piece of software that runs:
1. independent from the OS
2. native to the system's architecture
3. can make use of all available screens

The point ist:
If E:D is making an effort to cater to systems other than windows, then it should at least target the popular operating systems and allow the users more freedom, before thinking of moving to exotic devices like an Eggsbox.

Plus: The gaming industry should finally wake up and catch up with the rest of the software and hardware industry. Wouldn't hurt to have more projects like SC that show a bit of technical ambition.

Have you seen the codebase for WebKit? It was a mess when I worked with it briefly a few years back. #ifdef are all over the place to support various architectures.

Also they are making it for popular system - Xbox. It's hard to argue that they aren't popular and costs them almost zero to do. In addition they are working on a Mac port. This not only helps ED but other games that FD produce by giving them a concrete implementation. Hopefully if the Mac version is a success then they will do a Linux one, but I wouldn't expect a beta before this time 2016.

Also ED runs on all screens - I've seen pictures of people running multi-monitor displays.

Also consistently referring to Xbox as Eggsbox makes any argument you make sound like it is coming from a rabid fanboi.
 
Back
Top Bottom